Friday morning Java substitute - keeping the IMS lubed using the 221 method.

Who is this guy anyway?







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2012 07:53AM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)

Nice driving guys!
So that's how you do it....
Pedro, you must have been down over 50HP.

as in US 221 near the Blue Ridge Parkway in North Carolina. Look up Grandfather Mountain. Apparently there's quite a view from up there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2012 11:06AM by Laz. (view changes)

You're right. There is quite a view from the top of Grandfather Mountain - which is on US 221.

Parked near the top of Grandfather Mountain.



Near the top of the road going down Grandfather mountain.

Mile High Bridge starts at the hill at the top right.



Mile High Bridge.



View from Mile High Bridge

the planks that aren't missing.

... his owner generally drives on the WRONG side of the road, literally.
He's from the UK.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

... I just finished putting it together from last week.





Happy Boxstering,
Pedro



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2012 02:18PM by Pedro (Weston, FL). (view changes)

... with "Super Strut" from his album Deodato 2.
I thought I'd add a little soundtrack because the camera microphone picks up too much wind noise in that position.
You can compare with the door-mounted camera which is much quiet.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Quote
Pedro (Weston, FL)
... I just finished putting it together from last week.

Pedro, after watching the ALMS car Wednesday going thru turn #1, I still say you need to change your line to go faster.

... if my car was faster I'd need to let it out on turn 1.
Because I can't pick up enough speed at the end of the front straight, that line through 1 is faster than if I let it wind out (which would be a longer distance).
Your 997 is much faster than my Boxster so you need to track out on 1 in order to be faster.
But while you're tracking out, I'll pass you on the inside
Happy Porscheing
Pedro

By the way, which car has the better initial line in the Porsche Le Mans 2014 video? (At :44)

... the car on the left has the better, faster line, but the car on the right extended his braking point and took the advantage.
In a race, the car that ends up ahead had the "better" line.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

I'm not sure if the outside car is another 917 or a Ferrari 512, though I'd think Porsche wants to show their car's (and driver's) superiority. The red car had less room to track out, too, because of the 917 "under" it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2012 11:49AM by Laz. (view changes)

Quote
Pedro (Weston, FL)
... I just finished putting it together from last week.

Pedro, did you look at the bumper of the GT3 RSR... This could be your next go faster hack.

Are you able to log any of the engine data(temp/oil pressure) during your sessions via the OBD?

I could, but it's simpler to watch the video.
With the video you can also tell exactly where on the track it is happening.
The original video file is in HD so you can see the gauges perfectly.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro

Makes sense; I know a lot of guys spend time right after their runs going through the data to check their split times and the like, but you are right, if the video has enough resolution, you can see where the gauge is pointing without wading through computer screens.

Do you use a laptimer or rely on the camera for that also?

I'm thinking about trying race chrono this year and pulling in some OBD info --water temp/revs/brakes/throttle--and superimpose that on a video. People say its not too difficult but the manual doesn't show much detail.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2012 11:34AM by MikenOH. (view changes)

I'm using one of several iPhone aps for track time, lateral, acceleration and braking.
I know why my laps are not as fast as I'd like: I need more HP!
I can out-brake a 996/997 and I can maintain higher speed through the turns, but I cant accelerate with them.
Overall I'm as fast as them in lap times (sometimes faster), so if I had more torque/HP my times would be better.
I try not to overanalyze my driving with all the computer software available..
Generally, once or twice per year I ask one of the faster Instructors (that also race) to ride with me and critique me.
There's always something I can improve upon.
Twice I've also had professional coaching which has also improved my driving performance.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

I like what Harry has done with his laptimer, but I can't justify spending that kind of loot on a iPhone just for the track app since I rarely use my cellphone much these days.
When my contract is up, I 'll see if I can get a decent Android phone for free ( with a decent camera) and hopefully no monthly data program. I'm running RC on a MOT Q which I no longer use and is out of contract; it provides the basics but having one device that does the video and data overlay at the same time makes it a lot simpler.

For now i ski.

Unfortunately, the gopro in 960 flattens terrain terribly. Much of what i filmed is between 35-50 degrees from horizontal (that's cliff-like) but it sppears fairly flat. Ah well.

For my stuff, peruse the channel "goingfasterslowly"




Some skiing clips from Jan

First clip is the tour going up. Then many of various folks, mostly me, going down. Chest cam.

Grant

Surely you aren't driving like that on a public highway. After all, what would you do if a deer tried to cross the roadway, or an old pickup truck pulled out in front of you, or someone came the other way on one of the times you crossed the yellow line? This is excessively dangerous for a public on the highway. I admit I am guilty of driving too fast sometimes, too, but nothing like that, and anyway that doesn't make it safe or right.

... from my recollection and what's on the video, not a single time.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

I used "you" in the plural sense since the two cars are obviously racing together. I can't tell whether your car specifically crossed the center line due to the camera angle, nor does it really matter, because the orange car definitely crossed the center line at 15, 30, 37, and 45 seconds and then I stopped counting. I think that's enough to make the point. Clearly it would have been the orange car to hit the child, deer, or other driver -- as long as the other driver you're racing with does it and you don't, that makes it all good and in no way you would be contributing to an accident. Right?

I do it all the time - so long as there is no one, nothing, coming - and so long as my field of vision is vastly longer than anyone's reaction times.

But no, i did not see you cross it. Just sayin that under the right circumstances i would not criticize you if you did. You would simply be straightening the road, and giving the car that extra margin of error - which means safety.

Grant

I'm not buying it. If the road was adequate to provide that much certainty of who's coming and what's up ahead, there wouldn't be a double yellow line in the first place. It is a little arrogant to believe you are smarter than highway engineers. Crossing the center line to straighten the road to give "increased safety," that's really BS. It's not "safety," it's just taking more than your share of the road so you can go faster than you ordinarily could. If you want safety, SLOW DOWN. If you feel the need to cross the yellow line, you are a menace on the highways. Period. Around here I have had a bunch of close calls, particularly with pickup trucks, crossing the center line at sharp turns because they think no one is coming, so I am really sensitive to invading someone else's space. I don't want to get killed by some idiot in a truck OR a Porsche. God gave you 1/2 the roadway, stick to your own side!

And the center line is also just one issue. I drive the rural roads of Missouri. I will be the first to admit that the speed limits are ridiculously slow for sports cars. I myself drive faster than the speed limit, but I sure as heck don't race and I always drive defensively on the assumptions that:
1) Uncle Joe just pulled onto the road at a hidden drive just around the curve and usually starts out at 10 mph on his way up to 35 mph.
2) Suzie is putting on her makeup/talking on her cell phone/eating/drinking/otherwise not paying attention and as a result, SHE crosses the center line right in front of you. You are speeding and on the other side of the center line yourself. What now? The wreck will be her fault but it's YOUR funeral.
3) Tommy Trucker's semi is going the other way and "just because he's so wide", he is occupying every inch of his half the roadway just around the turn.
4) Little Billy missed the softball his dad pitched to him and runs out into the road to retrieve it. The horror of killing a child because of speeding on one of these roads is absolutely chilling.
5) There are deer, possums, raccoons, squirrels, etc. crossing the road.
6) Farmer Smith's fence is down and his cows are out wandering. One of my old bosses got a steer through his windshield and killed him instantly. My wife encountered horses running loose on I-44, if it had been MO-17 she would be dead.
7) There was a rockfall at the hairpin turn.

You know WHY I drive this way? Because ALL these are REAL hazards that I have personally encountered on real roadways, over and over and over. The roadway in the video isn't much different. Clearly there is inadequate sight lines for the speeds they are driving. Around here they would be incredibly lucky if they avoided Situation 1 above, that happens all the time. Situation 1 frankly has taken a lot of the pleasure out of my driving. I didn't notice it much before I got the Porsche, but now I realize that it's a constant fact of life and I have to deal with it. I don't want to kill somebody (or myself) and I can't just wish Uncle Joe away. I cannot believe you are defending racing on a public highway. The people in this video need to move that stuff to the track or get permission to close off the highway for a while.

Have you ever been on that particular road? I have many a time and conditions permitting think they were fine. I cross a double yellow many times when I drive... particularly on a very windy back road near my home in effort to avoid the countless pothole/craters which have driven many a car into adjacent telephone poles. Control is the key...

You epitomize hypocrisy chastising Grant, Pedro, et al in one sentence for speeding while in another justifying yours b/c you do it "defensively". One should always drive defensively regardless of speed and I know Pedro & Tango were doing so. Personally, I drive ~ 25-30k miles a year thru many rural and urban areas in about 20 different states, MO included. I completely understand why you are more sensitive to this issue b/c, quite frankly, the majority of drivers in MO just plain suck.

[www.ksdk.com]

Hopefully others in MO and elsewhere can learn from your tenacious defensive driving efforts and "assumptions" listed above.

The roads at Le Mans and the Ring are pretty much a normal two-laner width, but the very high speeds of the cars effectively narrows them down to what we perceive at "normal" speeds as being a single lane. Why not see it as a greater challenge and test of driving skills on public roads* to "clip apexes" et cetera, but staying within the hazard and shoulder lines?

* Yeah, Le Mans uses a lot of public roads, but not during race days.

... we weren't racing.
If we were I would have passed him by mile 2.
We were doing spirited driving on a beautiful stretch of NC road.
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro

i'm not buying that!

I trust my judgement over any "rule".

The yellow line is there because you cant have ambiguity.

not worth a discussion, you obviously have strong opinions.

I encurage all to stay in their lane. But occasionally, one must use their wits.

I find government has very few of those.

Grant

First, i rarely speed on public roads. I get my real jollies where they belong - on the track. That said, there are times when one will exceed posted limits. Often this is because limits are arbitrary or set to raise revenue. Some are quite plain. Other times one may get jollies when it appears to be really safe. Note i think that generally requires 1/2mile or more of clear viability and nothing along that path. Except maybe a playmate going the same direction and well aware of what's going on.

but anyway....

If the road was adequate to provide that much certainty of who's coming and what's up ahead, there wouldn't be a double yellow line in the first place.

--> not true. Double yellow in many cases is sometimes the default. I've seen windy roads where you could see miles, but they left the double yellow because...well, i don't really know

It is a little arrogant to believe you are smarter than highway engineers.

--> aside from being nearly certain in many cases, highway engineers don't determine this. Often politicians do. And i'm certainly smarter than them. Been watching the show lately?

Crossing the center line to straighten the road to give "increased safety," that's really BS.

--> not in the least. It keeps the car well within its limits - or even further within fi you are conservative in the first place.
I'm vastly safer under those circumstances than most idiots under the limit talking on their phones and putting on makeup.

I don't want to get killed by some idiot in a truck OR a Porsche. God gave you 1/2 the roadway, stick to your own side!

--> you dont seem to get it. I would never be on that side if there was any chance you would be anywhere near the area. If i cant see, i presume you will be there. Give people some credit. You act like we're idiots - which is why our laws are so arbitrary in the first place.

I will be the first to admit that the speed limits are ridiculously slow for sports cars. I myself drive faster than the speed limit, but I sure as heck don't race and I always drive defensively <clip>

--> oh, but i don't? Because i'm not a smart and thoughtful as you? Or is there another reason? I already told you i was careful, you simply chose to assume i'm a liar. Your arrogance knows no bounds.

1) Uncle Joe just pulled onto the road at a hidden drive just around the curve

--> if there's a curve ahead it violates my statement that i only would do it where i can see. One must look to find, and read to comprehend.


2) Suzie is putting on her makeup/talking on her cell phone/eating/drinking/otherwise not paying attention and as a result, SHE crosses the center line right in front of you.

--> this is getting stupider and stupider. This too violates my statement that i would not do it with suzie coming the other way, makeup or no.
ya know, i was nto the least annoyed by your concerns until i read this line by line. Now i am. You simply don't read, listen or give your colleagues the slightest bit of credit do you? I'm getting royally pissed.

<snip>
Really Paul, that was insulting. You may not have meant it, but consider what your arguments say about how you view Pedro, me - and all the rest of us.

Grant

I apologize if I unintentionally insulted you. We do agree on some things. You said, "other times one may get jollies when it appears to be really safe. Note i think that generally requires 1/2mile or more of clear viability and nothing along that path." I agree ... but that's not what I see in this video.

Can you seriously defend what is shown at 1:44-1:46 in the video? The orange car is on the wrong side of the line on a RIGHT turn, and it's a right turn where there is no shoulder and it's right next to a steep hill or perhaps even a rock cut. IMHO this is indefensible. There is no visibility there unless you have x-ray eyes. And it does not even make sense from a driving point of view to cross the center line on a RIGHT turn. Aren't you supposed to hug the INSIDE of a right turn? Did I miss something in Driver's Ed? Is this "giving the car that extra margin of error - which means safety"?

As for crossing the center line on left turns, I also don't see 1/2 mile of clear visibility anywhere in the video. As a general proposition, I'll happily concede that sometimes you can see a little farther ahead when making a left turn and on an open road with clear visibility, I have no problem with minor line crossing. This entire video shows steep hills and heavy woods right next to the highway, and no shoulder. There is no way this meets your 1/2 mile criteria. Nevertheless, some lane crossing is probably okay in some places in the video, but by no means all. I will continue to criticize places such as line-crossing between 1:26 and 1:30. Theoretically one could see around the first turn, but there is an immediate right turn maybe 300' away. Is your "field of vision is vastly longer than anyone's reaction times" in that situation? C'mon, Grant, can you seriously say your field of vision "vastly" longer in this situation? How do you see around the upcoming right turn? What if another Porsche was coming the opposite way at the same speed as these cars and was also cutting that corner? At 1:54-2:00, there appears to be NO visibility around that turn and he's almost entirely in the opposite lane. Ditto at 4:11-4:17.

"I will be the first to admit that the speed limits are ridiculously slow for sports cars. I myself drive faster than the speed limit, but I sure as heck don't race and I always drive defensively." This was my own quote and since everyone makes it into an "Aha!" moment, I'll say this: There is a big difference between 5 or even 10 over and what the people in the video were doing. Due to capabilities of the vehicle, you can do 5-10 over most places without crossing the center line and you can stop so much faster than other vehicles that an alert driver is safe enough. You can safely drive even faster than that in a straight line or even cross the center line to go faster on an **open** road with clear visibility as far as I'm concerned, because then you'd have the "1/2 mile of visibility" that you described. The point is -- those were not the conditions in the video and those drivers were not going 5-10 mph over. I really don't believe the orange car crosseded the center line on a right hand turn at only 5-10 mph over the limit. I really want you to explain how that one is "safe"!

"Really Paul, that was insulting. You may not have meant it, but consider what your arguments say about how you view Pedro, me - and all the rest of us." All my arguments say is that the people in the video were driving too fast for conditions and anticipated road hazards based on my own experiences. I'm sorry you feel that was an insult, it wasn't intended to be -- but really, I'd rather allow you to be insulted and angry at me if it means we both survive to discuss the matter.

explicitly defend any particular section of the video. In fact, it was in response to Pedro's comment that *he* *never* crossed the line.

I merely said that there are times when it is safe to do so. I reject all hard and fast rules.

I don't know what occurred at that point in the video and don't mean to defend what i don't know!

now, if you have a big issue with the visibility when a line was crossed, criticize that explicitly - not the mere act of crossing a line.
yes, its the law. So were slavery and separate but [un]equal for years. 'nuff said about the law.

What I will say is that, as a group, people who race or spend a lot of time on the track are in fact more situational aware, more cautious, and vastly more aware of the risks inherent in driving. As a corollary, they also typically know when the risks are NOT there.

Pedro is a DE instructor. I'm an AutoX instructor (still a ways to go on the track!). Cavalier attitudes to safety on the track at minimum cost lots of costly metal - on a regular basis. I believe that the three most important things you learn on a track are 1) situational awareness, including looking WAY ahead 2) how to drive smoothly, keeping the car within its envelope and settled, and 3) learning how to react properly to a situation - e.g.: slide, impending spin, etc. I wont go into details, but i was thrilled once, when faced with few good alternatives, i braked hard in a straight line, then drove straight off a track rather than try to save it and spin sideways into soft earth (risking a rollover).

I wont peak for Pedro, but it all teaches us how fallible we are - and that taking risks on a road with rocks, curbs, ruts and oncoming traffic is nuts. It also teaches you that driving a proper line, and erring on late apexes ALWAYS gives you far more margin than not. It also teaches you that 100 mph in straight line is a non-event, yet 50 mph on an off-camber tight turn is dicey. this is neither "common sense" nor explicit in traffic laws which focus explicitly on how fast you are going. The number of roads that are properly marked is near single digits. So are the number of law enforcement officers that truly place safety first. Unfortunately, their tenure and pay are tied to revenues - not safety. Simple as that.

Consider two identical right turns. One goes around a mountain, blind. The other follows a river - clear sight for miles. The latter is typical of my neighborhood (if you can call it that) in Colorado - think CO 285 or CO 50 towards Buena Vista. I pass over the line regularly. In a truck. Unnecessarily. But it reduces the side-loads a lot, reducing the off chance of a surprise.

This is an auto enthusiast community. Expect that we will wish to be enthusiasts. Expect also that we should and must be safe, but i reject that the cars cannot be run quickly and safely. The key is care. The same applies to skiing, where i similarly find the best and most aggressive skiiers are typically the most careful. Its the advanced beginners that scare the $H1T out of me.

As my dad, an AAF Pilot, said "there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots".

Yet i assure you they flow fast and hard. There is a big difference.

Thanks for your clarification. maybe we're not so far apart.

Grant

Used to see bumper stickers on US285 to the effect that I drive 285 and survived. Drove many times to and from work (Evergreen to Waterton Canyon/ I-25/Arapahoe Rd. A better drive though was South Turkey Creek Canyon to Deer Creel Canyon Road towards Waterton Canyon, especially during the winter.

generally toward Monarch pass. That's gorgeous.

The part from Denver through conifer and evergreen, as you know better than me, is becoming much like my native NJ highways - congestion, strip malls and all! Its very from Grant, the town through to Jefferson/Como too.

Are u a skiier?

Live in Evergreen area?

Grant (in NJ for now)

pedro following orange

FWIW, I believe the speed limit on that road is 55. It does not appear they ever got to 70 or 75 since I don't see the spoiler deploying on Tango. There are a lot of roads in the NC moutains where you can engage in spritied driving without exceeding the speed limit (by much).
mike

It does make a difference in the perceived speed.

For some, seeing the tach bounce around between 5 & 7K rpm it sure might make it seem very fast, but you also have to know Pedro's driving style. He drives the Boxster the way it was meant to be driven. No-one will ever accuse Pedro of lugging the engine.

Much ado about not much. A nice, spirited drive.
Faster than i'd go in a neighborhood with kids, dogs, driveways or deer.

Bit no biggie on a limited access rural highway, at least to my eye.

Pedro was nice and smooth too - which likely makes it look slower still :-)

Grant

I've driven with Tango several times before at TSBL events, and I can tell you he's a pretty tame driver, unlike some other TSBLers I know. By looking at the video, it didn't look like they were really pushing it either. If you want to see irresponsible driving, just get in a NYC taxi for 10 minutes. Lol