Try starting it with the valet key (it has the immobilizer transponder as well) *NM*

My2000 base. 83K miles.

A week ago drove to a sketchy area to make a quick pitstop. When I returned I put the key in and, nothing happened. All the dash lights lit as usual but starter didn't engage at all nor did lights dim or give me any sign that battery was down. Tried push-starting with no avail. Had it towed home.

I promptly bought a new ignition switch, installed it, and no help. Checked and bypassed the clutch switch, still nothing... even swapped out the battery. When I turn the click I can hear a slight clicking sound somewhere within the dash, maybe around the center or towards the passenger side someplace. Key still works on locking/unlocking so I doubt it is that.

Anyone have any clue as to where to start looking here? My next step was to take a look at maybe the starter solenoid but push-starting didn't help so I doubt it is the starter. At a lose here as to what it might be, the immobilizer perhaps?!?!

Any insight is greatly appreciated. Should there be anyone in the San Diego area with a PIWIS or software that could help remedy this I'd love to hear from you.

Thank you for any assistance on this...

Steve

Had a problem with the following symptoms in 2009...

The car started when cold, ran for about 10-15 minutes, then die.
After which, turning the key would be met with silence.

The car started up again after an hour or so...while we were trying to find a tow truck.
The problem turned out to be the crankshaft position sensor.

This one ran fine then wouldn't start after having sat for 5 minutes so it sounds a bit different than your situation. I also just checked the ground strap (fine) and took apart the immobilizer (under the driver's seat) and it looks brand new.

So it is not:
ignition switch (replaced)
clutch switch (checked and bypassed to make sure)
ground strap (appears brand new with no signs of fraying or damage)
not water damage to immobilizer (but still possibly an electrical issue), not the 15A fuse on the side of it. Key still works the door locks

I have a MY2000 base also and I had to replace that part at around your same mileage. Car would start fine when cold, but not after driving a while and stopping and trying to restart.

This one has been dead for the last 10 days, not starting hot or cold (it was initially hot when it stopped). It won't turn the starter at all nor does it want to run when push-started so this seems to run contrary to a CPS issue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2012 06:25PM by Leeper. (view changes)

im not super savvy with the boxster yet but this has happened to me in my 07 base box a few times when the steering wheel was locked and the car would not crank. It may be 100% UNRELATED but for me to get my to crank i would have to turn the wheel a little to left or righ to get it out of locked position and then it would crank. I regret I couldnt be of more help. Take care.

chrismmm: 2007-987 . jet black . north georgia
PCA PST member

If I am not mistaken, a bad CPS will keep - among other things - the fuel pump from operating. So attempting to start the car by pushing (which Porsche discourages) won't work. Also, a bad CPS will not necessarily illuminate a CEL.

Bill

and why does porsche discourage push starting, aside from lawerly stuff?

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

1. no power to starter nor solenoid (you did not mention that it clicked)
and
2. no power to the ECU, since it would nto start even if push-started (with cluck to floor and switch on etc.)

That's odd. ignition switch odd, except that you replaced that. Correctly? Its not rocket science.

So what's common to those two things?

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Also check the fuel pump fuse.

What service has been done recently on the car, prior to the problem occurring?

Last maintenance done by me was about 200 miles ago:
oil and filter, spark plugs, brake fluid.

Ran perfect up to the point where I shut her down for 5-10 minutes to grab something at the store and returned to the car after driving it for 25 miles and she was dead. No previous symptoms at all.

The fuel pump definitely turns on upon my turning the key to the "on" position. When I turn it to the "start" position there is a click sound that comes from under the dash someplace but nothing from the starter. If it were the CPS it would turn the starter but fire the plugs so that's out. It was suggested that it might be a corroded plug on the immobilizer under the driver's eat so I removed it and checked it out visually - looked like it was brand new on both sides of the board. After consulting with a competent indi shop here in San Diego he said that it sounds like either teh key or the immobilizer and that the only way to diagnose it is a PEWIS which is found only at a Porsche Stealership so unles there's an epiphany in the next 12 hours looks like I'll have to have it towed there sometime tomorro or Thursday... God I HATE to have to have them do anything for me! ugh...

I tried both of the ignition switches, before and after disconnecting the battery, checked the battery for proper voltage (12.6v) and also swapped out with my others cars battery. Bypassed the clutch switch, checked the ground strap, looked for corrsion on the plugs for teh immobilizer, looked at teh PC board on the immobilizer.. pretty much all that is left is the immobilizer itself, possbily the DME, or the key (only have one that came with the car though that works fine in locking/unlocking dors and turning the ignition switch.

BTW - is this the same "Grant" that works/worked at Ogner Porsche?

Unless someone has some great insight it'll head to the stealership tomorrow or Thursday and I'll be sure to report back i hopes of saving someone else this ordeal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/27/2012 02:25AM by Leeper. (view changes)

When you bypassed the switch, what exactly did you do? If the switch is faulty then pressing it won't work. If the wires leading to it are not properly continuous with the DME then connecting the wires to each other won't solve the problem.

It definitely sounds like either a neutral switch problem or an immobilizer problem, though either of those would have identical symptoms if the wires leading to those were faulty. I would look at a wiring diagram and check continuity in the wires.

If the fuel pump fuse is faulty I think the relay will still click as the fuse is in the power circuit and the relay click is activated by the switching circuit. But as you pointed out, the car would still crank in this case.

One other possibility (and I hate so say this) is that the car is not recognizing the RFID pill inside the key. Have you tried your other key? I've heard of rare circumstances where the car seems to forget about the RFID chip and symptom is exactly as you describe.

... if you have the spare key, try it and see if it starts.
If you don't have a spare key make sure that the immobilizer transponder in the key is in place.
I had a customer once who called and his car wouldn't start, just like yours.
He tried everything as well: push-starting, bypassing the clutch switch, etc.
He had even replaced the key remote's battery.
In the end it turned out to be a missing transponder which got dislodged when he replace the remote's battery.
Inside the key fob there should be a small glass "pill" inserted into the plastic.
That's the transponder for the immobilizer. If it's not there or is not the correct one the car will not start.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Clutch switch - checked it with my Ohms meter and it passed fine. Just in case to bypass it I simply put a "jumper" I had by making two alligator clips with a wire between to make sure both spade connectors had continuity.

Unfortunately this car came with only one man key and one valet (which did worry me). There's a slight possibility that it could be the "pill" in my only key, guess I'll see once Porsche calls my email request for an appointment. I think the issues pretty much been reduced down to it being the immobilizer causing the problem, whether that is the immobilizer itself acting up or it not recognizing the key.

I haven't replaced the remote battery or touched it in any way that might lead to such an issue. It works the door locks just fine at normal range. I'd be thrilled if that was the issue!

All the input/suggestions are GREATLY appreciated.. thanks so much guys for contributingg your thoughts here... let you know what transpires... and how badly I'll get raped here by Porsche. Thankfully made a good chunk playing poker last night so it won't hurt as bad hearing that estimate.

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Tried the valet key, even with the regular key in my pocket and same thing. Lights come on, fuel pump makes its noise, no starter action.

$50 sent via PayPal if someone here can give me advise that I can use to fix this puppy! HELP! I can feel the cash vaccuum about to ht my wallet if it gets towed to Porsche. I'm praying that if it does go there that they can "flash" it and bring it back to life, otherwise I think I may be lookisng at a new immobilizer. Strange as there wasn't any symptoms at all and the immo board looks bright and shiny on both sides so no apparent water damage. ugh. Are there any other fuses on the immo aside fro the 15A small spade fuse showing externally perhaps? That one was checked and in fine condition. When I remove and reinstall the black plug on it I can hear something inside it so clearly it is getting power... both connectors are tight and all the small pins look very clean/shiny (great for a 12 year old car)

Not sure though.

... if there is 12 volts, the immobilizer is good and the starter is bad.
You have to analyze this step by step.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

I was going to check teh voltage at the starter but when I removed the engine cover it was not apparent where the starter was so I left it alone. Awaiting a call from San Diego Porsche as to how badly they hope to rape me here as it was towed there this morning.

I can only recap that based on the symptoms: That the engine failed to start, even crank, with no solenoid action/noise after trying two keys (one a regular key and the other a valet key) and you wiggled wiggled the keys around and tried multiple times; the engine failed to start after a push start with the ignition key turned to run and with the engine being turned over from the push start attempt *and* that you correctly bypassed the clutch safety interlock switch; all of these points very strongly to an electronics problem with the car's security system.

However, you must and I can't stress this enough, you must be sure that if you bypassed the clutch interlock switch you did so correctly.

My 02 exhibited the same symptoms -- the last time failing to start when I picked it up at a distant (40 miles from my house) dealer late at night after a long cab ride from my house to the dealer -- and while I didn't try to push start the car or bypass the clutch interlock switch a new one solved the no start problem.

It is very unlikely the starter is bad or you would have other symptoms. The solenoid would work but the starter wouldn't crank, or crank poorly,or the solenoid would activate then deactivate, or the starter would turn the engine over a few pathetic turns then quit, and so on.

Really, at this point unless you revisit the clutch interlock switch area or wiggle the key around in the hope you were not as thorough as before a dealer with the proper electronic test equipment and the techs that have know-how is your best course of action.


Sincerely,

MarcW.

is that the problem may be that the wires the switch are connecting are not properly connected. So you can connect them until the cows come home but the car won't think they're connected. If you look at a wiring diagram you should be able to follow where the clutch microswitch wires connect (it's almost certainly the immobilizer but could also be the DME).

My immobilizer failed a few years ago, Boardwalk spent a long time trouble-shooting and eventually replaced the immobilizer. (I had replaced the ignition switch and tried everything I could think of)

Later, I think it was Pedro mentioned a known problem with a fuse in the immobilizer (?)

Eric

Update - Porsche called two days ago (a day after bringing it in to ask rather silly questions. He then asked me to give him another day to troubleshoot.

They called yesterday with a conveluted story as to why they don't have answers yet. He said they have over 2 1/2 hours into it thus far so he asked that my $140 diagnositc quote be allowed to go to another $160 being it is taking them so long. They have found that the immobilizer is not recognizing any keys (not mine, the valet, or any of there's). Initially I said OK but this didn'sit well with me. The thought of me paying their tech while he learns how to use their software and cut his teeth on my car at my expense doesn't make me happy.

This morning I called them back and declined any further charges, explaining to the service advisor that I can get a new unit for $283 from Sunset (Suncoast wants $330 plus another 5 days shipping) so why on earth would I want to have them burn another $160 to tell me it is bad then have to pay their list+ to remedy my issue? If they are taking longer than expected to figure this out then hire and train competent people, 2 1/2 hours is rediculous!. He said he would consult the service manager and other tech then get back with me shortly. Not impressed thus far with San Diego Porsche.

In the end I believe I'll have to get a new immobilizer, maybe a second key, and have it reprogrammed. I'll know more later today. Not pleased

It took a long time for Boardwalk to conclude it was the immobilizer in my case as well. You could have their shop foreman call the shop foreman Cliff Black at Boardwalk Porsche Plano Texas

Eric

... but do you mean CLU (Central Locking Unit)?
The immobilizer is just one of the functions of the CLU.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

the unit under the drivers seat part # 996.618.260.07 "Alarm control unit", you are correct Pedro, thanks for clearing it up.

Right now I'm looking at:
$140 already spent to diagnose (and not get a clear answer)
$287 for "Control unit" PN # 996.618.260.07 from Sunset Porsche
$10 for new key blank (eBay)
$117 new key head w/ electronis from Sunset Porsche
$40 for local locksmith to laser cut new key
$120 quoted by Hoen Porsche to sync keys to my car (regardless of how many keys)

*** new key is not needed but I only have one+valet so this is the best time to get another.

Questions:
Will San Diego Porsche match prices?
Will they honor their word and apply my $140 towards a fair price to sync the keys - this is after they call yesterday asking me to pay another $160 just to diagnose the issue? They feel they are due more money as it has taken 2 1/2 hours of their time to get this far and they still ddon't know what is wrong.
Will I be better off having my car towed to another stealership and have them sync the key after I install (can do within 10 minutes) the new control unit?

I hope to have calrity this afternoon once the service advisor calls me with a few more answers, he is to consult the service manager and a different tech.

Quote
Pedro (Weston, FL)
... but do you mean CLU (Central Locking Unit)?
The immobilizer is just one of the functions of the CLU.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

I'm referring to the doofer thingey silver box bolted under the driver seat.

Porsche SD called me yesterday confirming it is the CLU (central locking unit). I asked for the quote to resolve this and got "$160 additional labor, $483 parts (CLU only) plus tax". Told him I'd pass as I could get the CLU for $283, a new key, and have it all programmed at another Porsche dealer for $120 and STILL save money. He spoke with parts then offered to do everything for $750, I passed once again, then right away he said $650 OTD for everything I agreed. Felt like I was buying a new car from them with this haggling crap but the final price is fair as I already have $140 invested with them for the initial diagnosis and mentally budgeted $500 for the repair and now I'm getting an extra key (Carrera GT key)

Should have it back and running mid-week hopefully and this saga will be done.

It takes about 30 seconds to tell the car to recognize the rfid chip on the key. As I said above in this thread, sometimes the car "forgets" a key and it has to be reintroduced. Very easy to do.

If they replace the immobilizer and it fixes the problem it still could be what I said. I think they should try that for free before they line into the $650 "fix".

It's like the alternator replacement scam: The connection to the alternator is loose So replacing the alternator fixes the problem. Mechanic is a hero. I'm not saying they're Scamming you but it's worth a shot.

They said that they tried my regular key (only have one), the valet key, and a couple that they had laying around but the CLU wouldn't recognize any signals from any of them. He said that they were able to see the key codes on the CLU but that it would not recognize any one them. I was hoping it could be as s imple as a "reflash" of the CLU, secondly was hoping may the RFID "pill" in the key might be the culprit but they said that was not the case. I'm surprised it is something with the CLU as when I took the case apart the thng looked brand new... I can only go on what they tell me regarding the CLU as I wasn't there to witness when they hooked up the PIWIS.

The CLU is programmed to recognize the specific code in the RFID pill. Sometimes the computer "forgets" these codes and so one or all of the keys will stop working. In that case, it is trivial to go in with a PST2 or PIWIS and tell it to recognize the key(s).

Nothing you have said indicates that they tried this easy test, which may well have fixed the problem for next to no money. Since it's super easy to try I would have done that first.

Confused here, being that they said they tried to input one of their known working keys in the CLU should that not troubleshoot the cLU not remembering or "seeing" a key? The advisor said the tech tried both of my keys as well as a couple that they had there with no avail. IS there something I'm missing that might negate my having to purchase this CLU?

There is clearly a bug in the CLU computer that causes the problem. They may have to clear out the programs and re-enter them (still a very easy thing to do) to get it to work. They may have done this but from your description it sounds like they might have just tried your keys without reprogramming.

It is possible, of course, that the CLU is indeed not functioning properly. I was just checking. Some mechanics (yes, even Porsche-certified mechanics) are not very good with electronics and computers and they tend to go for the easy solution (which is usually to replace things until the problem is resolved).

Thanks so much Boxsterra for your input. I'll ping them on Monday to see what they can do. In reality who knows if they've tried this already and who knows if upon my request they are willing to give it a try as they have ordered the part. It's not looking like this advisor is very thrilled in delaing with me as I'm their nemesis - someone who knows mechanics (and most electrical too) and is also asking lots of questons because I'm cheap. One way or the other it should be running by mid-week but it's wortha try to have them reprogram it to the keys once more - he said he tried it to various keys with no affect already.

Like Ronalrd REagan once said "trust, but verify". Tomorrow morning I'll so up and ask them to erase all the current codes then re-enter at least one key to see if that has any affect. Perhaps you're right adn it's just a glitch or "bug". I'm afraid that if I just call and ask that it may or may not actually get done. I agreed to purchase the CLU and another ley however I am hoping this will negate my need to buy a new unit. If this fails they have ordered the new CLU which should be in probably Tuesday to be installed Weds.

Having recently done this programming myself I can tell you that it should take a sum total of less than a minute for all of the keys.

Just got back from Porsche with hopes of removing and re-entering the ley codes, the issue with my unit is that it shows no keys. They tried to input both my keys as well as one from parts and it wouldn't accept anything. He said it is also has blown several fuses. The new unit will arrive in the next day so hopefully ths will resolve it once and for all.

Boxsterra your input and insight is greatly aprpeciated, thanks.

Picking it up tonight. The new CLU arrived but it still popped fuses, they had to trace it back to find out why. The guy found that the last time I removed my stereo I must have pinched a wire on a loom when I pushed it back in, and that somehow would occasionally rub against the metal tray that houses the radio thus grounding out. They're not going to charge me for the CLU, not sure waht the end bill will be but will find out this evening or early Thursday morning when I pick it up. Check this one up to "pilot error". Figuring the end bill will be around $500 including a new key.

Picking it up now. Total cost is $510 which includdes diagnosis, repair to the wire which I damaged putting the radio back in the last time (this grounded out against the radio's aluminum housing causing a ground issue with the CLU). In the end they did a great job and did not need the new CLU they ordered. I mentally figured this would run me $500 so it is right in line... plus now I get another new key so I'm pleased.