Re: It looks interesting but...

Flat6 and LN have jointly announced a $799 dual row IMS bearing that can be installed using a special tool into an engine that came with a single row bearing from the factory.

So they now offer three kits for the single row engine at different price points.

The tool is expensive.

No details on the amount of testing that has been done.

Mike....you MUST be their Marketing Manager

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

I have no financial connection to either entity. I have never met either Jake or Charles. Never been to their shop in Cleveland GA.

It is just a subject I became curious about. And started collecting as much info about as I could. And I made it available on the web with links to every product. As I did with much else though this is the only subject I'm actively updating now.

Occasionally I do receive an email from Jake telling me about what they are working on which they trust me to not reveal. That and a few hours-long phone discussions in the early days of the whole IMS discovery is the only connection.

..that the dual row bearings are felt to be more durable. In fact the class action settlement does nto apply to dual row bearings as i understand it. This allows those of us with single row bearings to not only replace them, but replace them with something more durable.

That said, Pedro's position is, and i suspect he's correct, that any old bearing would be fine if only it was lubricated. So he provides lubrication. As one who already replaced tow single row bearings with LN single row bearings, i can only hope that the LN overkill is sufficient.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

My concern is that they keep releasing new products that all claim to be the only and the last solution and the "cause" of failures keeps shifting. That makes it seem like they really don't know how to solve the problem.

Quote
Boxsterra
My concern is that they keep releasing new products that all claim to be the only and the last solution and the "cause" of failures keeps shifting. That makes it seem like they really don't know how to solve the problem.

Bingo!--how many does that make now?

Pedro's make the most sense--keeping it lubricated ( and changing the oil frequently) will prolong the life.

Makes you wonder why Porsche decided to replace the dual row with the single row? if it was a cost concern, I can think of a few better ways of saving the $10 or so in material costs.

for the Gen 2 single row car.

1. The original improved but still single row bearing version which has a limit of 40k or so imposed by the single row design.
2. The Solution which is said to be the best but which is $1k more expensive than the dual row and is only installed at Flat6.
3. And the mid-range priced dual row which can be installed by an experienced mechanic who has done other IMSs before and who has the new tool.

They have discarded far more designs than have worked out. And this may not be the last design they choose to make into a product.

The dual row was replaced by the single row due to other changes in the valve train being done at the time IIRC. Not a cost issue and the full extent of the IMS problem probably wasn't understood by Porsche at the time it was designed and production committed.

I confess I'm getting weary, and wary, of Flat6 & LN's (anything but) final solution(s).

too late for me though. I do take issue with the 40k statement. OEM bearings often last twice or thrice that.

One would hoep the LN original effort would be better than a $100 OEM, or why's i not buy a $100 OEM?

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Not sure about the new one. I installed an LN bearing 30K ago, no issues. I guess the best part is that I can skip reading the posts. Can't think of a better definition of 'happy customer'

If you believe that the bearing is a problem, then it's a good move.
It's actually a 1.5 row rather than a 2-row bearing.
Instead of the balls being side-by-side, they are staggered to keep the width of the bearing to a minimum.
It should offer a little better wear than the single-row, but it's still being installed in marginal cooling and lubrication conditions, which in my point of view is a NO-NO.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

I have been reading about the IMS issue since I bought my 04 in October. I am so confused, I don't know what to believe. My car has 16,000 miles on it in 10 years of it's life. I don't know how it has been driven prior to my ownership, but I know the last guy did absolutely nothing to the car in the last 3 years (not even changed the oil). I just discovered I have the original tires on the car. I probably have all the original fluids in the car as well (except the oil, i did change that). However, I was uneducated about the IMS issue and never looked at the oil filter.

The car has a Tiptronic so changing out the bearing when the clutch needs to be replaced isn't going to happen.

I really have no idea what to do. I like Pedro's Fix with the increased lubrication, I believe the IMS solution or Retrofit or the Gen 2 want you to have their version of the forced lubrication as well. I don't think any of the four can be done without a lot of labor required to separate the engine and the transmission. I don't mind spending money when I have to, but this is like playing Russian Roulette and some of the scare tactics on other advertisements are concerning.

I'm sorry..... Rant over, safety relief valve is reset.

I welcome advice / comment from those much more experienced than myself. I really don't know what to do.

You've already had the oil/filter service done.

Next I'd have the brake fluid flushed/bled. (Just did this to my 02 Boxster and while I can't tell any difference in the braking the clutch action is improved along with the shifting. The car went 2.5 years since the last brake/clutch fluid flush/bleed.)

I would advise you have the coolant drained and refilled with a fresh batch of anti-freeze/(distilled) water. I have this done to my cars every 4 to 5 years. The Boxster water pump lasted 170K+ miles. The Turbo's 110K+ miles. (Come to think of it, the replacement Boxster water pump has over 100K miles.)

Plugs are due to be changed on time. The concern is they'll corrode over time and removing them will damage the threads in the head.

I would not bother with the power steering fluid, unless your trusted tech advises otherwise. Mine say leave it alone. The stuff in my 02 Boxster is original and the power steering system is just fine.

16K miles is not enough miles to bother with the transmission fluid although an "early" change wouldn't hurt. Up to you. But you can put this off say another 6 months so you don't have all this fluid change business hitting you all at once.

For the bearing questions I have no real answers. Each has to make up his mind what he believes is best for him and his situation and what he needs to be able to enjoy the car with no fear of any iMSB issue intruding.

Also, personally I'm not convinced the aftermarket solutions or improvements will deliver any better bearing life/longevity. Only time will tell, I guess.

With my 02 I have elected to leave the original bearing alone. I believe the bearing is the more durable dual row bearing (it has the dual row IMS end flange) but I can't be sure based on what I've been told. Regardless it has served well these 12 years (12 years last January 19th) and 276K miles so I'm not messing with it unless or until it signals it needs messing with.

Sorry for the rant...Bad hair day yesterday.

Thanks for your insight, I plan on purchasing new tires and an alignment when it gets closer to spring.

I'm looking at buying a pressure bleeder right now so I can flush the brake system myself. I'll do that before the tires are installed. I'll probably do the plugs the same time I bleed the brakes, since the wheels will be off.

I believe your correct on the anti-freeze, 10 years is way too long to be sitting stagnant most of the time.

I didn't change the oil myself, so I don't know what the underside looks like, but I think I'm going put in a magnetic drain plug on the next oil change and possibly look at clamping magnets to the oil filter canister to help trap any ferrous particles if there are any.

Thanks again

Don E.

in that it is a bit sad that more often than not instead of posts by new owners filled with positive vibes about their experience with their new (used) Boxster the posts are filled with questions seeking to avoid doom and gloom. It is in some way a sad commentary on what has happened.

Anyhow, I'm not a fan of using magnets to try to catch ferrous particles of metal in the oil. If there are enough to catch the odds are very high the engine will reach a serious state of condition long before one checks the filter magnets for debris. I mean unless you are prepared to drop the filter and check these very frequently for a problem that requires not much running time at all to go from not there to too late I can't see they do much good and might provide one with a false sense of security.

You get nearly the same benefit (if one can call it that) by simply pouring the filter housing oil into a clean drain pan and swishing a magnet on a stick around in the oil and checking the filter element for scary metal bits. (Neither of these I did before when I changed my own oil and I'm sure the techs at where I have the oil/filter done do not do this.)

The odds of something happening are low, though not nearly low enough, so my advise is to run a good (approved) oil suitable for your climate conditions and change the oil and filter at reasonable intervals. I like 5K miles but some have had good luck with a longer change interval.

My thinking is I much prefer to change the oil a bit too early than a bit too late even if the too late doesn't have the engine spilling its guts all over the roadway immediately. IMSB go bad a little at a time until they go real bad in a very short time. It is the going bad a little at a time I'm seeking to avoid by following the oil/filter service schedule I follow.

As for tires: My opinion is if you are driving the car at all you should get those original tires replaced sooner rather than later. A tire failure can have the car in an accident and I see no reason to risk that waiting for spring.

Marc,

Don't get me wrong, I love my Porsche, the few miles I have driven the car have been exhilarating. I have always wanted a Boxster, ever since it first came out. I feel lucky to have found the one sitting in my garage.

Part of me was mad at myself for not knowing enough before I purchased it and the other half was mad at the previous owner for his blatant disregard for taking care of the car. Nuff said.

With regard to the tires, the Porsche is sitting in the garage, waiting out the winter and anxiously waiting for the BRBS.