Re: Watches, NP/BC

I'm not on the board as much as I used to be, but during slow times there used to be a running debate on watches. I don't know if it still rages.

In essence the battle was between Rolex and Omega. Rolex had the cachet of being worn by James Bond (until the latest crop of movie versions, including the otherwise superb Daniel Craig), Steve McQueen, Thor Heyerdahl, U.S. special forces and, if you swing that way, Fidel Castro. Omega was appealing because that's what they wore when they faked the Moon landing.

Personally, being interested in complete lack of subtlety and making my point as crassly as possible (and having nothing to do with Fidel), I have had a Rolex for almost 30 years, but I have friends who have Omegas and I still drink with them. I guess it's just a matter of taste, which watch you choose if, apparently like me, you are so insecure that merely owning a Porsche doesn't reassure you enough.

I raise this because today I saw an ad for Breitling as the watch of acrobatic fighter pilots or something like that who fly at hundreds of miles an hour with their planes like seven feet apart. Now, Breitlings don't generally appeal to me, but I see their charms. However, I can't quite picture these guys flying at Mach whatever on top of each other performing maneuvers while they fool around with the bezels and dials on a Breitling. Am I missing something here?

2001 Base, purchased in 2004, replaced engine at 130K+, RIP 2017

Back in 83 I got an as-simple-as-possible Steel Rolex with Chronometer spec. No "cyclops." Last year traded it in at 2.5 times its original price for a Milgauss; black dial, regular crystal (not the green glass.) The only fancy giveaway is the orange lightning bolt second hand. Weighs a ton, very readable, and damn near perfectly accurate.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

Here is review we did back in 2007:
[www.rainydaymagazine.com]



The watch has held up extremely well. We have upgraded the band with a clasp and is worn weekly. Well, there IS a rotation...:


[www.rainydaymagazine.com]

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

but I think Daniel Craig is as good as Sean Connery -- very similar in some ways in his approach -- and better for now. In my opinion none of the others were any good, although I have a soft spot for George Lazenby. Don't get me started on Roger Moore, Rolex or not.

Many Omegas and probably the majority of Breitlings are not automatic (i.e. self-winding) watches but instead are merely really expensive relatives of much cheaper watches like Citizen. They make high-end watches but most of what you see in the jewelry store (other than Rolex) is just the cheaper quartz versions that don't hold their value. If it's ticking in the jewelry case (especially moving in one-second ticks), it's just a cheapo quartz watch in an expensive case, but I wonder just how many people actually know that. If I wanted a high-end watch, I'd buy a Rolex. In fact, I have an Omega that I bought in 1975 with the state-of-the-art (HAHAHA) tuning fork movement that is not that accurate, requires a battery a year, and is worth next to nothing. That experience bummed me off buying expensive watches, just a waste of money. And the high-end watches require annual cleanings, also a waste of money. Finally I decided to buy a $89 Seiko self-winding (automatic) watch that works exactly (and looks very much) like a Rolex. After 4 years, it still keeps time within 30 seconds a day and has never yet required any service. If it gets lost or stolen, I would lose all of $89. LOL

Modern Rolexes don't need anywhere near annual cleanings, and it'd get me crazy if any watch I wore was off by 30 seconds a day. At that point I'd just use my cell phone which only drifts 5-15 seconds every now and then during the day. This Milgauss is off at most a couple seconds either way and is easily "regulated" by its overnight resting position. It literally can go indefinitely and not be off by more than a second or two per week. Consider what the error percentage is being there are over 80,000 seconds in one day. Not bad for a mechanical movement.

Mine is 17 years old. Bought it when my Seiko was lost or stolen. Figured if I paid enough money I wouldn't lose it or my wife would kill me. It gets serviced every 5 years. One time I had the saphire crystal replaced - less than $100 and I have the servicing done by Rolex in Dallas. Accuracy - it gains a minute a week. I have heard that if I have it positioned in a certain way at night this gain can be offset. That's too much work for me. When I go to church on Sunday I set it back 1 minute. If I miss going to chuch then its two minutes fast the next week and so on.

it should be easy enough for the Rolex technician to change out (and I'm guessing here) the balance wheel or balance staff to get it into a more accurate range. It's also possible the watch is slightly magnetized, which- counterintuitively- can cause it to run fast. Whatever the appropriate repair, after that, laying it flat should be "fast;" winder down a little slow. In my case, winder down is just about neutral, which is nice, and leaves the other positions for faster/slower. While you might see this as more work, there'd be less wear and tear on the winding crown threads and gasket.

Yeah, the thought had crossed my mind. About every time I read of another Porsche engine failure, I ask myself why I didn't just get a 370z (MR2 would be better yet but alas, not available new in 2008). Ditto with the BRZ. Simply put, after almost 5 years of ownership, my own Porsche has been good but just not good enough to be worth anything near its asking price. Maybe if I cared about tracking it, it would make a difference, but I don't

WOW! Out by 30 seconds a day? That's out 3.5 min. a week or 1 3/4 hours in a month. I have a 20 year old Seiko (Quartz) that I only reset twice a year - daylight savings and back to standard time.

Are you sure it's a Seiko and not one of these Timex knockoffs?

I'm no pilot....unless you consider using my mechanical Breitling to pilot my Boxster...


And sometimes my Omega as well...

... I'm mostly an Omega guy.

[i83.photobucket.com]

My 600 PloProf which I don't wear too often anymore, the Boxster watch was a prize I won at BRBS many years ago and the Casio is for work.

[i83.photobucket.com]

Happy Watching,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Still remember you receiving it at BRBS - still in Blowing Rock at the time.

Had to pay for mine, but worth it to a Boxsterholic like I am.



Happy Boxstering

As a practicing watchmaker,I must weigh in here.Style aside,Rolex is probably superior to most mass-produced,high-end Swiss mechanicals.Omega's are not bad,either,although I personally do not care for the newer Co--Axial movements.Breitling is not good value IMHO-(their marketing-superb),and because of their closed service policy(almost no one can purchase spares)you are forced to accept whatever estimate factory service comes up with.Monopoly is usually good... for the entity that holds it.

That's interesting. I thought Rolex imposed the same conditions on its authorized service centers as you say Breitling does.

I have to say that having a Rolex now that I bought 28 years ago that still works well, it is a good investment for those who want a good mechanical watch.

Rolex has restrictions,but a)allow a dwindling number of us to hold parts accounts and b) good quality generic parts abound,unlike Breitling.The Swiss,by and large have been moving towards monopolizing service via parts restriction for years now.The legality of this highly questionable,but companies(Cartier comes quickly to mind)have gotten away with it so far,so more firms are testing the waters.They are flush with cash if they want to fight an FTC ruling which is a long shot,anway.(Rolex spent $50 million last year on US advertising,alone)

I'm almost sympathetic to Rolex on this one. I've traveled in and out of Southeast Asia quite a bit in the last 20 years, home of the counterfeit Rolex Submariner and GMT models. The ones they hawk to tourists on Sukhumvit are obviously worthless, but a Thai friend showed me the fake Submariner he'd bought, with a Tissot movement, from the kind of counterfeiter Thais go to, and paid (at the time, like 10 years ago) $80 or so. The watch seemed quite good. Kept good time, looked exactly -- and I mean exactly, face markers, color, hands, everything -- like my real one, weight was the same, etc.

no question fakes have improved-some are downright amazing now.I have to really study them to decide if they are real(and I've been in the watch business for 36 years)I've had the uncomfotable job of giving out the bad news to many who have been duped(Ebay,bought privately,gifted,pawn shops,auctions,etc.)However the Swiss want to protect their trademarks,no argument from me there,but it doesn't give them the right to maintain control of YOUR (genuine) watch.This is a car site:some owners do their own work,some use indy's,some use dealers.In the scenario that's developing in the Swiss watch world,only option #3 will be available for many brands.

Well, it's too bad. I'm sorry to see the price of Rolexes has become truely astronomical. What do you think of Tudors?

I like them in general;they have much in common with their parent,Rolex.Big "however" is the movements,till now have been outsourced to ETA,(with some elaboration)the mega movement maker that is owned by Swatch group.Rolex is now re-introducing Tudor in the USA at a higher price point the before-say what Rolex's were priced at say 15 years ago,along with the usual marketing blitz.Crafty.We haven't had a chance too see these new models in the flesh yet,so I'm curious about newer
movements.They know full well that most people cannot afford a stainless steel Rolex @ 6-9K.My guess is they have good, unsold backlog of certain models,especially since China has backed off...but they won't lower the prices or put them on sale(tarnish "the crown"?-never)

I think that's disappointing. The whole point of buying a Rolex is the movement. Now that they've hit astronomical levels, if I didn't have one and was in the market, I'd probabably consider a Tudor, assuming that I was getting a Rolex movement in a less expensive package. If it's not a Rolex movement, why buy the watch? Because it looks like a Rolex? Doesn't make sense to me and is pretty disappointing.

For many years, Omega Seamaster was the watch for choice of James Bond, just to clarify something posted earlier.

I spent a bit of time this past weekend with the newest Omega Speedmaster 'Dark Side of the Moon' edition. Spectacular design, all black ceramic, some interesting features, but not enough to grab my attention, and well, 12k retail price!



I do like the Omega line (owned by Swatch now), and believe they make a very high quality product.

That said, like many here noted, nothing really beats the Rolex for a solid mechanical, whether dress or daily driver.

James Bond, created by Ian Fleming, wore a Rolex, as did Fleming, as stated unquivocally in the books. We associate him with the Sub because that's what Sean Connery wore, but his was borrowed for the movies, Fleming wore, I believe, an Explorer, and that is likely what he had in mind for 007. Nevertheless Rolex was his brand. Later movie versions changed this, but they are not the original James Bond and non-Rolex watches are no more authentic than the cigar-smoking Bond we saw with Roger Moore.

I have two Rolexes (a President and a Datejust) - both inherited from my dad - and both close to 50 years old. Repairs are outrageously expensive and both are in the shop right now. Frankly, I look at them as jewelry rather than time pieces. My cheap Wenger keeps time as well (I wear it whenever I am out of the country and don't want to encourage a mugging). Its true that the automatic movements are examples of craftsmanship - but from a cost viewpoint more than a little difficult to justify at today's prices. OtoH, that Timex TX looks interesting.

I am surprised nobody has mentioned German watches. Yes, the Swiss are more famous, but the Germans have a tradition, too.

Starting at the modest level, Stowa has a number of handsome pilot-type (as in Luftfwaffe) watches. Pardon the long-winded URL:

[www.stowa.de]

Moving up, we have Sinn of Frankfurt. Herr Schmidt, who used to design for IWC and Porsche Design bought the brand from Herr Sinn and makes a full line of very well regarded, rugged watches, with customers including GSG9, German fire departments, et al. He also has dress watches named for the Franfurt financial district. Note some of them have rather Porsche-sounding numbers, the 956, the 917. Pilot styles include the 103 series. One of their lines features their own movement. Check them out:

[www.sinn.de]

Moving up in expense, we have a pair of the oldest names in German watchmaking, both from the town of Glashutte in the east (a nexus of watchmaking). They make their own movements, as well. The town went unscathed until August 1945 when they were bombed, damaging or destroying most of the watch factories. Then the Soviets moved in, and well, it went into the dark ages, so to speak, until after the Iron Curtain fell.

Glashutte-Original, the larger of the two, makes a variety of watches, including their very attractive offset face designs, such as the Panomatic Lunar.

[www.glashuette-original.com]

Up at the top rung, and rivalling any of the Swiss makers, is A. Lange und Sohne. AL&S are the type of watches you might find on a 918 owner's wrist. Just a remarkable amount of hand-detail goes into them. I tried a Lange 1 on in Pt, and it was most impressive.

[www.alange-soehne.com]

I love the Lange Datograph, but at $78k it's a bit pricey.

$78,000 is absolutely ridiculous for a watch. Frankly, I think $7,000 or whatever my Rolex costs now is way too much and if I had to replace it, even if I could afford that price, I'd think twice about it. A friend who has his father's old Rolex chronometer turned me on to a site called West Coast Time [www.westcoastime.com], which has some pretty nice looking authomatic watches on it. I'd probably think about one of their watches -- and not some ersatz Rolex, something on their pages that's not pretending to be something else. There's also the chronometer Obama wears that's like $300 and he seems to like it -- and whatever you think of his politics, he has a sense of style.

Quote
JackintheBoxster
$78,000 is absolutely ridiculous for a watch.

Nice thing is that we can make choices. A watch or a well equipped new 981 S, which even comes with a nice digital clock.