Re: 2009 Boxster in Atlanta "Snowmegodden"

It started snowing at about 11:30am today... light flurries turned into light snow. As anyone here knows, traffic would soon come to a halt, so, naturally, I got on the road to get home (what was I thinking?)

Headed out and got on a major highway with no problem. As soon as I got into Midtown Atlanta on the surface roads, the trouble began.

I was driving on North Ave on the way home (about 4 miles from home) and immediately the car started fishtailing. I realized that my tires were not up to the task.

I pulled over into the nearest supermarket and parked the Boxster in a safe end space, locked it up and walked away.

The rest of the afternoon was an oddysee of getting home - 6 hours approximately including stopping to find rooms in hotels (all booked)... and ultimately taking the train home.

Tomorrow I will go back and see if the Boxster is still there, although I already know the roads are pretty much undrivable.

I always thought, and still do, that the Boxster is ok in bad weather, but you need to have the right tires. Oh, and you need to live outside of Atlanta.

Saw that on the weather channel this morning and was hoping you'd made it home OK since you didn't have winter tires. The high performance tires don't work very well once temperatures get down into the 30's. Definitely not designed for snow. You were smart to get your Boxster off the road.

Hope you get it home safe and sound today.

The mother of all freeway tie-ups. Glad to hear you made it home in one piece--no small task.

I think the Boxster is fine in winter weather--just ask the Germans --given the 55%(?) of the cars weight over the rear wheels, but the std. tire is no match for those weather conditions. It's my guess these type of weather conditions in GA. are rare enough so that a separate set of tires/wheels probably does make economic sense.

I've toyed with the idea of putting a UHP A/S( Mich. PS A/S 3) on the 981 when the stock Pirelli's are done just to get some additional time on the road before the snow flies, but those tires are usually heavier in 981 sizes. We'll see....

UHP A/S tires are only good for three seasons. Winter and snow is not one of them. I have some on one of our Audi Quattros. They will be better than UHP summer tires though.

Ed B

I saw the news out of Atlanta on the TV this morning and I immediately thought of you. Thanks for the report. Even winter tires are no good on ice, and from the reports that seems to be the major issue.

Steve

Been worrying crazy about you for the last few days.

Hope you and the car are well !!

Regards, -Rick.

As I mentioned when Mer came back several weeks ago....



"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

Quote
Ed B
UHP A/S tires are only good for three seasons. Winter and snow is not one of them. I have some on one of our Audi Quattros. They will be better than UHP summer tires though.

Ed B

That's what I was thinking; December through February driving around here requires dedicated winter tires, so the Mich. PS A/S3 might work for what I'm trying to do.

BTW, Mer, I should have included a "not" in front of "make economic sense".

Even the 911 with the enging over the rear axle, is terrible in the snow without the proper shoes. I thought it would be similar to a front wheel drive in light white stuff, but nope, it stays parked if we expect any snow to stick on the hard surfaces. Good luck. DC is pretty bad in snow, so Atlanta will probably be a mess for the rest of the week.

I'm a die-hard. The Boxster is my daily driver, so I'll switch tires to accomodate the weather. We plan to move up North (Baltimore) and I will continue to drive the Boxster daily. Yeah, I could have a beater as a 2nd car, but what fun is that?

I chose not to drive my Boxster into Birmingham Tuesday morning, becauuse I usually leave my volunteer job about 2:00pm and head south 30 miles to get home. The weather was forecast to be more intense to the south. Those Hankook RS3's are not snow tires. But, wifey drove her Lexus RX330 to Bible Study in Homewood. Started snowing, temp below freezing, so they dismissed early. The snow immediately froze as it hit the ground. It took her 2 hours to go a mile to I-65 southbound, now closed due to stalled traffic. She and her sister, luckily, found a hotel room. Yesterday, they made it to the sister's home to rescue their dog. This afternoon, they will return to hotel to get sister's Audi A4. I-65 south reclosed overnight and is not yet open at 10:30am, but there is another north south artery, Hwy 280, open. Our dog and I are doing fine, oh yeah, we ran out of Scotch yesterday. Looks like Birmingham could return to normal Friday.
Anyone doing the 24 Hrs of LeMons at Barber this weekend?

Jim, 2001 Boxster S, 1973 Triumph TR6, 1956 Triumph TR3

He's been driving this race for a few years now. He just got a used Lotus but am sure he's not driving that!

Meredith, Sorry to hear about your adventure in winter wonderland. No tire is going to help you on ice unless you get them with steel studs or put on snow chains. But, from what was explained to me, even snow tires on Porsches aren't going to make the cars all that good in snow. Our usual summer tires apparently are a softer rubber or something like that. As such, they get "hard" under about 45 degrees and lose their good "stickiness". I drive my Boxster in the winter, but only on dry pavement, but I drive it much more carefully. I was told by some one who I thought was a pretty knowledgeable tire guy that driving summer tires in the winter is ok, but to drive a bit more defensively as you will lose some stopping distance (increased distance). He also explained to me the essential problem of driving cars (Porsches) with very wide tires. They are more like skis. Thinner tires have more pressure per square inch of contact which makes them handle better in the snow. So, while winter tires for a Boxster may not become "hard" in the cold like summer tires, the width will still put them at a disadvantage over more common narrower tires on other cars. A Boxster may not be undriveable in the snow with winter tires, but it may not be as good as the average sedan on the road. p.s. my daily driver is an Outback. 4-wheel drive is a great help in snow, but I still very cautiously.

I think a Boxster with studded tires would have had trouble in the monster traffic jams in Atlanta.

I drive my '02 year round in Boston and yes you do need winter tires at any temp below 40 or there is dangerously poor traction even on dry and clear roads. Tom

'Back in the day', my father drove a monstrous, rear wheel drive Ford LTD wagon (with faux-wood siding). He had a set of studded snow tires which made a racket, but never do I ever remember him complaining about lack of traction in snow. Fast forward a couple decades, when 'all season' tires were introduced, which only means they s*ck in both dry *and* snowy conditions. In fact the sinister side of me is convinced that 'all season' tires were invented by the car companies to convince everyone they needed to spend money on a 4WD SUV/Truck, rather then just an extra set of tires and wheels. As I tell my motoring friends who complain they can't stop their AWD sedans in the snow: "4 times zero (traction) is still zero"...

My wife's AWD wagon has a dedicated set of incredible Nokian Hakkapeliitta R's (the Finn's know a thing or two about snow) mounted on steel wheels... a 20 minute swap in my own garage, and no messing with tire mounting and unmounting each fall and spring. I really look forward to snowstorms in that car... turn off the traction control, find an empty parking lot, and show the kids how to do a 'Scandinavian Flick'.. heaven!

- JohnL
Boston

I've been driving on all season tires for years with VW's, Audis and BMW, both front wheel and all wheel drive and have never been stuck or failed to be able to stop in snow. (OK, once the snow was up to the bumpers, I wasn't going anywhere). It's a matter of knowing what you're doing. I'll agree that dedicated winter tires will give you better grip. I've just never felt I need them and I've driven though some pretty bad storms.

Our Audi A4, that was totalled, was on all seasons. The truck driver that hit and sent an SUV (on winter tires) directly into our path was equipped with winter tires.

I'd never try to drive a Boxster with high performance tires in winter. I know that they don't have the grip in cold weather. They also don't have the tread design to get grip in snow. somone earlier had mentioned about the wider wheels/tires of the Boxster. That's why it would be better to get narrower wheels/tires if you're going to drive a Boxster in winter.

My experience: I've got two German AWD cars. One has the Hakkas in winter, the other has AS Potenza's year round. In snow, it's zero comparison, not even close, though traction control will mask quite a bit. The Hakkas stop on snow almost like it's dry, while the Potenza's are like a cat on a linoleum floor. In fact, I turn off the traction control (though keep the stability control on) in snow because I like 'feeling' the conditions, not just watching a blinking light. The biggest issue with driving on the Hakkas is that you want to pass everyone while terrified drivers meekly creep along.

Funny A4 story...also totaled one on crappy OEM AS Goodyear Eagles in a slushy storm, the impetus for a full-on set of snow tires. Never leave home without them! YMMV.

Just out of curiosity, why would you living in Southern Ontario not choose to use a proper winter tire? Especially given that you're a performance kind of guy? I have all-seasons on my A6, and I pulled them off later than I should have as the winter tires I ordered were backordered. The difference is night and day. Confidence over slush, and when the going gets tough, the car behaves like a snow plough. By comparison, my all-seasons had far longer stopping distances, and actually had traction issues (the traction light was on a lot), and while it could go, I'd not want to risk the longer stops, the poorer handling to save virtually nothing. A set of winter tires, combined with a set of all-seasons (actually when my all-seasons run out, I'll get better summer performance tire -- if I still have the car), work out to no cost at all -- as they are wear and tear items. I can understand people in parts of the world where there is no snow, but really, southern ontario is a winter climate, and snow tires are safer -- for you and those around you.

All seasons balance their marginal snow performance with marginal dry performance.

i have dedicated snows, on dedicated wheels (smaller), on my boxster and Audi S6. In the long run it doesn't cost any more. Given the safety, and the fact that you can run skinnier, higher-profile winters, it may wind up cheaper.

Yopu woould be amazed what a boxster will do on skinny-ish snow tires (225-50-16s,R, in my case)

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I really like my Subaru, this is my first one, and I recommend them. A few times at my daughter's mini-farm in the country, I have had the chance to use the button that has the wheels all go at once w/o the computer deciding which one has traction. According to the manual this is only for very slow speeds when you need all the traction you can get. Boy, does that work nice!

My Boxster and my Subaru both have boxer engines!

Purchasing a Winter Beater: I did just that after driving my Boxster one winter in Northern Idaho. It was NOT because of the tires/traction. I ran Bridgestone Blizzaks from Nov-March and it was a pretty bad winter. I don't recall even sliding around on the Blizzaks except when I decided to push them to the limit to see what they would take. The reason I went to a "beater" was because of the "sand" they put on the roads. It was more like rocks than sand. I had to have the front bumper skirt resprayed after that winter. I'd guess this snow issue was an anomaly in Atlanta and they don't sand roads regularly, I'd reconsider a beater. Purchasing a winter tire of high quality like the Blizzaks and I'm sure you'll be fine. The only downside to the Blizzaks was it kind of felt like I was riding on marshmallows, but I never got stuck/slid around. If you choose to go the beater route, I got an Audi A4 Quattro. I enjoyed driving it almost as much as the Boxster during the winter. FWIW

The car is fitted with Michelin PA4 N-specs and the TireRack/Porsche "approved" aftermarket wheels. The car also has PTV; that includes a mild limited-slip differential. The snow it's sitting on is just about "right" as it's not higher than the car's ground clearance, and not the very hard packed icy stuff that just about any tire short of studded ones would slip on. Some weeks ago I had to stop on that sort of surface (more icy than hard packed snow actually) on a mildly inclined driveway, and once I wanted to move up a bit more the car just wouldn't go any farther-- a little disappointing. The Michelins, while "essential" for <45º weather, and have the mountain snowflake symbol, have fairly shallow tread depth (thinking of snow traction here.) They're certainly adequate for most everything, and their steering response, etc. is very close to the summer tires', at least up to 6/10ths driving. They're confidence inspiring in the rain, what with all the block voids and siping. Next go-round, I might try the N-spec Contis or whatever is de rigueur then. Picture taken at a parking lot for the Dutchess County Rail Trail (NY)




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2014 08:34PM by Laz. (view changes)

Taken from the front door before today's s**w started to fall.

Accompanied by Debussy
[www.youtube.com]

just because of the content, not the artistry.

A few more views after shovelling this morning.

View down the street. Backing out of the driveway is always a gamble.



View from the street with the CURVEN8R hibernating behind the closed door.



View of our neighbour's SUV in the driveway.

but no way would I take CURVEN8R 2 out in that. Rather chilly to drive with the top down anyway.

I just like to keep the driveway cleared so I can get CURVEN8R out when the roads are free of salt in Spring. It's going to take a while for that 6+ feet of snow on the lawn to melt in April.

Main roads get cleared first and by this afternoon, the main highways will be pretty much just wet with clearing and then applying that car eating salt.

Not so much here with shovel in hand. We've had another 6" of s**w since those pictures were taken.

Really sorry I missed it. We were in South Africa in 90 degree weather when I say the CNN reports about the storm in Atlanta. Glad to hear that MER survived it. My next door neighbor in Atlanta told me he ended up leaving his car on the expressway and spending the night at a fire station. Doesn't happen often in Atlanta but when it does - WOW! I was here for the blizzard of 93 when we had around 18 inches in the Northern part of town. First time I had ever heard "snow thunder". But the worst was 83 when we had ice and then snow. I ended up abandoning my MGB and walking home several miles. Even the walking was difficult with the ice. We lived at the bottom of a steep hill and had 14 cars wreaked in our front yard with several stranded folks spending the night at our house(all strangers - although we still get Christmas cards from one lady who spent the night with us) . They had a great time since we had planned on a very elaborate dinner party that night and they ended up being treated to a six course meal and some very fine wine and spirits.
Luckily this time, my Boxster was safely in bed in our garage in NC while we enjoyed the South African Summer!
The bad news - we still own a condo in Atlanta which we plan on selling shortly (it was my mom's home), On the second day of our trip, we were notified that pipes had burst and the ceiling in the living room had collapsed. Now to deal with contractors and insurance adjusters.
good to be back - can't wait to get behind the wheel of the Boxster next week!