I'm not sure how the oil gets into the bearing. While the engine is off what would... |  |  |
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Laz - 9 years ago |
| Most likely ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - 9 years ago |
... it also has to do with the larger wheel/tire sizes.
Happy Porscheing
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Happy Porscheing
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Laz - 9 years ago |
| What is their source? *NM* grant - 9 years ago |
which seems to me says they cant tell the difference between revs and load in raising oil temperature above 212 deg.
I question their credibility - not that they are particularly bad, but its a common problem in most reporting on technical topics.
So no citation, no credibility
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
I question their credibility - not that they are particularly bad, but its a common problem in most reporting on technical topics.
So no citation, no credibility
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Higher RPMs = higher centrifugal force, whcih throws oil out of the bearing.
If, on the other hand, you vary revs a lot, its more likely to seep back in ( at lower revs).
What most experts seem to agree on 9 as do i although i would not put myself in that class) is that its acidic oil that causes the problem, caused by:
1. Lots of short drives that dilute the oil
2. long drain intervals
3. oil that gets into the IMS itself and cannot get out - sitting until you change your oil and at best being diluted by sump oil
All of this says that the best protection is:
1. lots of use, with long trips that boil off gas, water and acid from the oil
2. frequent oil changes, even more frequent if you use the car lightly
3. Something that puts lots of fresh oil directly onto the bearing ( aka DOF)
If Excellence had said "drive your car hard for 30 minutes to get the oil >> 100deg C i would applaud.
Saying to take it to full revs simply puts more wear and tear on the car, especially if it is done with an engine not fully hot.
IMNSHO thee sorts of statements show their ignorance, not excellence. As stated, i'm being unfair singling them out. My dealer service manager said the same thing, but then couldn't understand what i was saying when i spoke about the acceleration that puts on the pistons etc. He countered that once could have high revs without accelerating quickly. Double sigh.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
If, on the other hand, you vary revs a lot, its more likely to seep back in ( at lower revs).
What most experts seem to agree on 9 as do i although i would not put myself in that class) is that its acidic oil that causes the problem, caused by:
1. Lots of short drives that dilute the oil
2. long drain intervals
3. oil that gets into the IMS itself and cannot get out - sitting until you change your oil and at best being diluted by sump oil
All of this says that the best protection is:
1. lots of use, with long trips that boil off gas, water and acid from the oil
2. frequent oil changes, even more frequent if you use the car lightly
3. Something that puts lots of fresh oil directly onto the bearing ( aka DOF)
If Excellence had said "drive your car hard for 30 minutes to get the oil >> 100deg C i would applaud.
Saying to take it to full revs simply puts more wear and tear on the car, especially if it is done with an engine not fully hot.
IMNSHO thee sorts of statements show their ignorance, not excellence. As stated, i'm being unfair singling them out. My dealer service manager said the same thing, but then couldn't understand what i was saying when i spoke about the acceleration that puts on the pistons etc. He countered that once could have high revs without accelerating quickly. Double sigh.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Laz - 9 years ago |
| I'm not sure how the oil gets into the bearing. While the engine is off what would... MarcW - 9 years ago |
force the oil into the bearing?
When the engine was running the bearing's rotation and heat generated would work to keep oil from getting into the bearing.
BTW, it is nice to read the experts believe acidic oil is the problem. I suspected this some time back, back shortly after I bought my Boxster in Jan. 2002.
It was the presence of 7% water in my Boxster's oil found at its first and only oil analysis -- way back in early 2002 -- that prompted me to adapt a 5K mile oil/filter service schedule. The concern was not the oil would break down but the oil would become acidic. The presence of water means other combustion byproducts are also getting into the oil and these combine to form acids which attack everything they come in contact with.
While it is true the oil has an additive packet intended to among other things neutralize any acid it can only do so much. The only way to remove this acid is to drain the oil and refill with fresh oil. This dilutes the acid and the fresh additive package works to neutralize any remaining acidic oil.
Of course, the acid build up resumes the moment the engine is run after the oil/filter service. It is a never ending battle that can only be fought by timely oil/filter services.
When the engine was running the bearing's rotation and heat generated would work to keep oil from getting into the bearing.
BTW, it is nice to read the experts believe acidic oil is the problem. I suspected this some time back, back shortly after I bought my Boxster in Jan. 2002.
It was the presence of 7% water in my Boxster's oil found at its first and only oil analysis -- way back in early 2002 -- that prompted me to adapt a 5K mile oil/filter service schedule. The concern was not the oil would break down but the oil would become acidic. The presence of water means other combustion byproducts are also getting into the oil and these combine to form acids which attack everything they come in contact with.
While it is true the oil has an additive packet intended to among other things neutralize any acid it can only do so much. The only way to remove this acid is to drain the oil and refill with fresh oil. This dilutes the acid and the fresh additive package works to neutralize any remaining acidic oil.
Of course, the acid build up resumes the moment the engine is run after the oil/filter service. It is a never ending battle that can only be fought by timely oil/filter services.
The IMS bearing sits in oil when the engine is off, and in less oil when it is on ( and oil is sucked up out of the sump).
When it spins rapidly it is essentially in *no* oil bath, as Pedro has shown.
Oil gets into the bearing when it sits, and some may get in when the rpms are low. Its not forced in, it just seeps (or flows in an open bearing).
Another detail that you may find interesting is that the IMS shaft itself is hollow and fills with oil. This oil has, essentially, nowhere to go and therefore sits, trapped and possibly acid, right up against the inner bearing race, possibly making it worse. One company in fact feeds oil to the shaft so it has a slow flow and changes itself.
It was the presence of 7% water in my Boxster's oil found at its first and only oil analysis -- way back in early 2002 -- that prompted me to adapt a 5K mile oil/filter service schedule.
7%, holy moly! My worst ever was just under 2% and my track cars (read this everyone) are/were typically under 0.5% Extended high temps work :-)
While it is true the oil has an additive packet intended to among other things neutralize any acid it can only do so much. The only way to remove this acid is to drain the oil and refill with fresh oil.
Couldn't agree more. note that there is a little known oil parameter called the "TBN" or "total base number" which is pretty much what it sounds like - a measure of how much neutralizing base additive is in the oil and therefore what its capacity is to neutralize acid. I do recall Click and clack postulating that pouring some pepto-bismal in the crankcase might be a net positive (long story).
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
When it spins rapidly it is essentially in *no* oil bath, as Pedro has shown.
Oil gets into the bearing when it sits, and some may get in when the rpms are low. Its not forced in, it just seeps (or flows in an open bearing).
Another detail that you may find interesting is that the IMS shaft itself is hollow and fills with oil. This oil has, essentially, nowhere to go and therefore sits, trapped and possibly acid, right up against the inner bearing race, possibly making it worse. One company in fact feeds oil to the shaft so it has a slow flow and changes itself.
It was the presence of 7% water in my Boxster's oil found at its first and only oil analysis -- way back in early 2002 -- that prompted me to adapt a 5K mile oil/filter service schedule.
7%, holy moly! My worst ever was just under 2% and my track cars (read this everyone) are/were typically under 0.5% Extended high temps work :-)
While it is true the oil has an additive packet intended to among other things neutralize any acid it can only do so much. The only way to remove this acid is to drain the oil and refill with fresh oil.
Couldn't agree more. note that there is a little known oil parameter called the "TBN" or "total base number" which is pretty much what it sounds like - a measure of how much neutralizing base additive is in the oil and therefore what its capacity is to neutralize acid. I do recall Click and clack postulating that pouring some pepto-bismal in the crankcase might be a net positive (long story).
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Laz - 9 years ago |
Quote
grant
The IMS bearing sits in oil when the engine is off, and in less oil when it is on ( and oil is sucked up out of the sump).
When it spins rapidly it is essentially in *no* oil bath, as Pedro has shown.
Oil gets into the bearing when it sits, and some may get in when the rpms are low. Its not forced in, it just seeps (or flows in an open bearing).
Grant
One thing to also consider here is that the bearing sits in oil with the engine off. That would be provided the oil is kept at the full mark. If someone just keeps it in the "OK" (as in above minimum mark) zone, the oil could be down by 1 - 1.5 quarts, in that case, I'm not sure if any of the bearing would even be sitting in oil with the engine off. In this case, Pedro's DOF system would be even more important.
Quote
grant
Another detail that you may find interesting is that the IMS shaft itself is hollow and fills with oil. This oil has, essentially, nowhere to go and therefore sits, trapped and possibly acid, right up against the inner bearing race, possibly making it worse. One company in fact feeds oil to the shaft so it has a slow flow and changes itself.
Grant
All the reports I've read where someone has disassembled the IMS shaft have found oil in the shaft--really dirty/smelly oil--and a lot of it. The notion that this really old/contaminated oil coming in contact with the rear of the race and doing damage on a continuing basis makes sense and may be the prime culprit of why these bearing fail at different rates.
| Sorry, but based on my experience and observation oil does not run into a spinning bearing... MarcW - 9 years ago |
especially one with any resemblance of a seal.
Even open bearings tend to push away oil. In machine tool gear boxes that are not pressure fed by oil jets the bearings are fed oil by scrapers that remove oil that clings to the sides of gears and direct this oil into the bearing. At higher speeds the amount of oil that is available diminishes but with the rapidly spinning gears the gear box becomes full of an oil mist that helps provide the bearings and such with proper lubrication. This is on purpose as too much oil at higher bearing speeds can lead to bearing trouble.
With an intact seal even at idle no way I say oil is going to get into the bearing.
With the engine off the bearing is hot and my experience is oil is driven away from heat. One can see this with a frying pan on the burner and oil in it. The oil leaves the hotter spots. Once the temperature has evened out there is no pressure difference to pull any oil in or force any oil out of the bearing.
I'm aware at least in the engines I have seen apart the IMS is hollow and can collect some oil. I have heard reports the oil in there can be disgusting. I fail to see how the IMS can fill with oil yet the oil has no where to go. I would think it could go out the same way it comes in being IIRC open at the other end, the end opposite the IMS bearing.
Regardless, I advise one keep the oil topped up. I do not like to read of some owners who let the low oil warning light be the trigger they need to add/top up the oil level.
While the engine may smoke under special circumstances,like in the track, for an engine that smoked when used on the track, I would never run the engine with the oil level below the max line with the oil fully up to temperature as some fix to a smoking engine.
The 7% water content is real if one trusts the analysis results and I did. (There is room for some distrust. The oil sample was obtained not by draining the oil and catching a sample midstream but by the tech feeding a small diameter tube down the dipstick tube and sucking up an oil sample. I have no way of knowing if he sampled the oil from the middle of the sump or from the bottom thus getting oil that could have had a higher water content that was not representative of the oil as a whole. I suspect/seem to recall he fed the tube in until it hit "bottom".)
This analysis was done sometime in early spring of 2002, at least late March -- I had my VW Golf at that time and I bought that car sometime (the 23rd?) in late March.
The winter weather from before I bought the car in January of 2002 and through the time I drove the car had been worse than usual. Colder than normal and with a lot of snow and ice. A real nasty mid-western winter. Probably a polar vortex winter had we known about that back then...
After the analysis I was prompted to use my OBD2 scan tool to observe the coolant temperature and I observed the engine took a long time to warm up and in many cases never got real hot. It was a rare winter day drive that had the temperature approached even 190F and this required usage that was not my typical usage. Around town, stop and go, slow driving through/around a parking lot with the A/C off. The buik of my usage was either 10 miles to or from work or many more miles of highway driving.
Furthermore, even though it was winter I used the auto climate control to provide heat and deal with the awful humidity. This usage of the A/C had the fans running all the time and these worked to keep the coolant temperature much lower than it would be with out the fans running. Anyhow, it was clear to me the engine was not getting hot enough to boil the water out of the oil and thus I adapted a 5K mile oil/filter service schedule.
I am not a fan of even those additives that are on purpose intended for use in engines. I would certainly not use anything like Pepto-Bismol or any other anti-acid like over the counter (or prescription) drug in some attempt to deal with acid build up in engine oil. If the oil has enough acid build up to consider such an action the oil (and filter) should be changed. Save the P-B for the all you can eat nights at the local restaurant.
Even open bearings tend to push away oil. In machine tool gear boxes that are not pressure fed by oil jets the bearings are fed oil by scrapers that remove oil that clings to the sides of gears and direct this oil into the bearing. At higher speeds the amount of oil that is available diminishes but with the rapidly spinning gears the gear box becomes full of an oil mist that helps provide the bearings and such with proper lubrication. This is on purpose as too much oil at higher bearing speeds can lead to bearing trouble.
With an intact seal even at idle no way I say oil is going to get into the bearing.
With the engine off the bearing is hot and my experience is oil is driven away from heat. One can see this with a frying pan on the burner and oil in it. The oil leaves the hotter spots. Once the temperature has evened out there is no pressure difference to pull any oil in or force any oil out of the bearing.
I'm aware at least in the engines I have seen apart the IMS is hollow and can collect some oil. I have heard reports the oil in there can be disgusting. I fail to see how the IMS can fill with oil yet the oil has no where to go. I would think it could go out the same way it comes in being IIRC open at the other end, the end opposite the IMS bearing.
Regardless, I advise one keep the oil topped up. I do not like to read of some owners who let the low oil warning light be the trigger they need to add/top up the oil level.
While the engine may smoke under special circumstances,like in the track, for an engine that smoked when used on the track, I would never run the engine with the oil level below the max line with the oil fully up to temperature as some fix to a smoking engine.
The 7% water content is real if one trusts the analysis results and I did. (There is room for some distrust. The oil sample was obtained not by draining the oil and catching a sample midstream but by the tech feeding a small diameter tube down the dipstick tube and sucking up an oil sample. I have no way of knowing if he sampled the oil from the middle of the sump or from the bottom thus getting oil that could have had a higher water content that was not representative of the oil as a whole. I suspect/seem to recall he fed the tube in until it hit "bottom".)
This analysis was done sometime in early spring of 2002, at least late March -- I had my VW Golf at that time and I bought that car sometime (the 23rd?) in late March.
The winter weather from before I bought the car in January of 2002 and through the time I drove the car had been worse than usual. Colder than normal and with a lot of snow and ice. A real nasty mid-western winter. Probably a polar vortex winter had we known about that back then...
After the analysis I was prompted to use my OBD2 scan tool to observe the coolant temperature and I observed the engine took a long time to warm up and in many cases never got real hot. It was a rare winter day drive that had the temperature approached even 190F and this required usage that was not my typical usage. Around town, stop and go, slow driving through/around a parking lot with the A/C off. The buik of my usage was either 10 miles to or from work or many more miles of highway driving.
Furthermore, even though it was winter I used the auto climate control to provide heat and deal with the awful humidity. This usage of the A/C had the fans running all the time and these worked to keep the coolant temperature much lower than it would be with out the fans running. Anyhow, it was clear to me the engine was not getting hot enough to boil the water out of the oil and thus I adapted a 5K mile oil/filter service schedule.
I am not a fan of even those additives that are on purpose intended for use in engines. I would certainly not use anything like Pepto-Bismol or any other anti-acid like over the counter (or prescription) drug in some attempt to deal with acid build up in engine oil. If the oil has enough acid build up to consider such an action the oil (and filter) should be changed. Save the P-B for the all you can eat nights at the local restaurant.
Quote
grant
The IMS bearing sits in oil when the engine is off, and in less oil when it is on ( and oil is sucked up out of the sump).
When it spins rapidly it is essentially in *no* oil bath, as Pedro has shown.
Oil gets into the bearing when it sits, and some may get in when the rpms are low. Its not forced in, it just seeps (or flows in an open bearing).
Another detail that you may find interesting is that the IMS shaft itself is hollow and fills with oil. This oil has, essentially, nowhere to go and therefore sits, trapped and possibly acid, right up against the inner bearing race, possibly making it worse. One company in fact feeds oil to the shaft so it has a slow flow and changes itself.
It was the presence of 7% water in my Boxster's oil found at its first and only oil analysis -- way back in early 2002 -- that prompted me to adapt a 5K mile oil/filter service schedule.
7%, holy moly! My worst ever was just under 2% and my track cars (read this everyone) are/were typically under 0.5% Extended high temps work :-)
While it is true the oil has an additive packet intended to among other things neutralize any acid it can only do so much. The only way to remove this acid is to drain the oil and refill with fresh oil.
Couldn't agree more. note that there is a little known oil parameter called the "TBN" or "total base number" which is pretty much what it sounds like - a measure of how much neutralizing base additive is in the oil and therefore what its capacity is to neutralize acid. I do recall Click and clack postulating that pouring some pepto-bismal in the crankcase might be a net positive (long story).
Grant
| Re: Marc, that was Click and Clack. You may be unaware, btu they area comedy show..... grant - 9 years ago |
... but the point is that acids may be among the biggest dangers., so it could be true.
As to the IMS filling (not the bearing, read carefully) - regardless of what you think, it does. Its i full of very stinky, acidic, oil. The entire shaft.
Every person who takes one apart reports it.
I don;t know how much oil gets in at idle or low revs ( and said exactly that). I suspect some but little.
So all this says: 1) drive the cars really hard and 2) change the oil a lot
Such news :-=) And in a related report, it will be dark tonight.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
As to the IMS filling (not the bearing, read carefully) - regardless of what you think, it does. Its i full of very stinky, acidic, oil. The entire shaft.
Every person who takes one apart reports it.
I don;t know how much oil gets in at idle or low revs ( and said exactly that). I suspect some but little.
So all this says: 1) drive the cars really hard and 2) change the oil a lot
Such news :-=) And in a related report, it will be dark tonight.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
... We know that:
When the engine is assembled, there is air inside the hollow IMS tube.
The IMS Bearing is partially submerged in oil when the car'e engine is not running and the car is level.
When the engine heats up the IMS it creates high air pressure inside the shaft.
Eventually some bubbles of high pressure air make their way through the seals on the bearing.
After the car and oil cools there is now a low pressure inside the IMS.
The same way bubbles of air escaped before, now droplets of oil are pulled in.
Eventually you end up with 2-4 ounces of oil that has been trapped inside the IMS and has become rancid and acid.
Now you know the rest of the story.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
When the engine is assembled, there is air inside the hollow IMS tube.
The IMS Bearing is partially submerged in oil when the car'e engine is not running and the car is level.
When the engine heats up the IMS it creates high air pressure inside the shaft.
Eventually some bubbles of high pressure air make their way through the seals on the bearing.
After the car and oil cools there is now a low pressure inside the IMS.
The same way bubbles of air escaped before, now droplets of oil are pulled in.
Eventually you end up with 2-4 ounces of oil that has been trapped inside the IMS and has become rancid and acid.
Now you know the rest of the story.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
The tube is hollow and semi-sealed at one end by the IMSB end by the bearing and its seals, but the other end is open and exposed to the crankcase. Any oil that gets into the IMS gets there through the open end. The IMS is partially submerged with the engine off and a proper amount of oil in the engine/sump -- a tech today told me that when he loosens/removes the IMS end flange bolts and flange oil runs out (and I recall the bolts are micro-sealed as they are submerged and can be an oil leak path) -- so I would expect any oil that gets into the IMS to get there via the opposite and open end.
| You have it wrong MarcW ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - 9 years ago |
Quote
MarcW
The tube is hollow and semi-sealed at one end by the IMSB end by the bearing and its seals, but the other end is open and exposed to the crankcase. Any oil that gets into the IMS gets there through the open end. The IMS is partially submerged with the engine off and a proper amount of oil in the engine/sump -- a tech today told me that when he loosens/removes the IMS end flange bolts and flange oil runs out (and I recall the bolts are micro-sealed as they are submerged and can be an oil leak path) -- so I would expect any oil that gets into the IMS to get there via the opposite and open end.
... the IMS is a hollow tube with one end sealed (journal bearing next to the oil pump) and the other end open (where the ball bearing goes).
I don't know where you got your information but it is not correct.
I have handled quite a few IMS tubes and what I am telling you is correct.
From my video on how it works you can see both ends of the IMS.
Here is the journal bearing (sealed) end:
and here is the open end where the ball bearing is pressed into:
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Marc/Grant so do u feel that it would be better to change the oil prior to storage rather than after winter storage because of acis build up thru the running season.
Do u think that water build up over the storage season 9 (winter) is a bigger problem than the acis created in the driving season.I only put 6000 miles on car a season
and used to change the oil after the winter because off moisture but now believe that it may be better to change prior to storage and just go for a good hard/ long early spring run
to hopefully burn off the moisture.What are your thoughts on this thx
Do u think that water build up over the storage season 9 (winter) is a bigger problem than the acis created in the driving season.I only put 6000 miles on car a season
and used to change the oil after the winter because off moisture but now believe that it may be better to change prior to storage and just go for a good hard/ long early spring run
to hopefully burn off the moisture.What are your thoughts on this thx
| Oil change answer Guenter in Ontario - 9 years ago |
Quote
moresquirt
Marc/Grant so do u feel that it would be better to change the oil prior to storage rather than after winter storage because of acis build up thru the running season.
Do u think that water build up over the storage season 9 (winter) is a bigger problem than the acis created in the driving season.I only put 6000 miles on car a season
and used to change the oil after the winter because off moisture but now believe that it may be better to change prior to storage and just go for a good hard/ long early spring run
to hopefully burn off the moisture.What are your thoughts on this thx
I'll jump in here and say. Yes! Change the oil BEFORE storage to get rid of the acids and have the engine innards sitting in clean oil. You're not going to get much, if any moisture in the oil when the car is in storage. (It's a closed system). The moisture / water gets into the engine from combustion when the engine is cold. Ever notice the water pouring out of the exhaust of cars driving off with a cold engine in Winter? That came from short distance driving. If that car had been on a longer drive to really get the engine warmed up, the exhaust system would have been dry from hot gasses flowing through it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2014 04:20PM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)
Gary in SoFL - 9 years ago |
| Re: Oil change answer Guenter in Ontario - 9 years ago |
Quote
Gary in SoFL
Hell, just pour the new oil over the engine and chassis for protection from the elements, and drive the poor 6 month orphan
Yup. That might work in Florida where cars rust from top to bottom due to salt in the air. Won't help when the salt is on the ground and cars rust from underneath to top.
Gary in SoFL - 9 years ago |
Quote
Guenter in Ontario
Quote
Gary in SoFL
Hell, just pour the new oil over the engine and chassis for protection from the elements, and drive the poor 6 month orphan
Yup. That might work in Florida where cars rust from top to bottom due to salt in the air. Won't help when the salt is on the ground and cars rust from underneath to top.
HA....you and I will rust faster than either of our wonderful cars will. No worries for FL Porsche drivers since we aren't a bunch of old ladies.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
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