Re: I dont have time to go into a lot of detail, but a quick read suggests

M96 & M97 engine "Modes of Failure" a.k.a. 986 & 987
Scattered over several forums is mention of between 19 and 24 modes of failure for the M96 engine. So I am trying to compile the complete list and a corresponding list of fixes.Wayne Dempsey has a the best list I could find- listing 19 modes. Not spefically mentioned are :
1. Lifters failing
2. The 4-5-6 sproket on the IMS slips causing the two cams to be out of phase
3. Bore ovality especially on 2 & 5
4. Lubrication inadequate on 6
What else am I missing?

Wouldn't it be useful to have a comprehensive list of not just the failures but the fixes also. For new-to-Boxster people like me it would give me a to-do list instead of an anxiety list !
For example:
1. how can the M96 lifters be rebuilt and is it wize? Just use new ones?
2. how can the 4-5-6 sproket be secured to the IMS tube? Staking? Yes, Mode #24 (you tube) was the main drive sprocket failing.
3. IMS oil-feed fix -is there an advantage to using a sandwich adapter to supply the oil to the new IMS cover plate instead of using the oil port on top of the engine?
4. timing chain link failure.
Can anyone direct me to such a list ? If not perhaps we should collaborate and try to put the list together here ?
A secondary issue seems to help each other source parts/fixes at more reasonable prices.Pedro's IMS kit is a good answer to that issue it seems. But what about the $200 each Vario-Cam solenoids/actuators
And then there is the "while you are in there " list -like water pump, spark plug tubes & .... It would make the rebuild process much smoother.
When I can get such a list completed ,I'll post it here for review and comment by the collective wisdom here.
Thanks for any helpful suggestions.

Can you give us a link to Wayne Dempsey's list?

I don't really want to give a link to a rival Forum on my first post because some might get offended. But if you google "Dempsey Common Engine Problems and Failures" , you'll find it. The term "Modes of Failure" is similarly featured on a rival Forum. If you look on YouTube for Mode of Failure #24 ,you'll find it.
My objective is to compile a simple(??) list of fixes for each 'mode of failure' .
It may be in our collective interest to do so because all the anxiety whipped up about IMS for example is calmed by the knowledge that Pedro has a fix(DOF) that works for a reasonable price.
This would do a little to support the price of used Boxsters.

Welcome to Boxster land! At the risk of hijacking the thread, here's a list of Boxster successes on which to focus:

- Top down on a sunny day by the shore
- Top down on a cool Vermont evening, the smell of wood fires scenting the countryside
- Top down, at speed in a rainstorm, seat heaters on
- At speed on a track
- Embarrassing assorted other 'performance cars' on exit ramps
- Admiring looks from the unwashed
- Chuckling when people claim it's not a 'real' Porsche. (Just ask them "have you driven one?")
... etc

Sure, my data point is N=1, but my 986S has been nothing but joy for 12 years - here's hoping yours is too...

- JohnL, Boston
2001 986S

On the Kancamangus Highway.

The air was cold, the heater and heated seats turned on, the top was down. The road was mine.



(The shot is a bit grainy, but it was hand-held and that IS the moon.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2014 08:57PM by Roger987. (view changes)

To give an optimistic example of Fixes, the Lifter issue is interesting.
Apparently the lifters can be dismantled,clean the ball, check the spring, inspect for cracks ,refill with oil and refit. The problem is I think this is an 'engine-out' job . So even if you have no lifter noise ,cleaning and inspecting them should(?) be on the to-do list when you have the engine out and apart. It would be a pity to miss this and then get lifter noise after you've re-installed the engine.
I wish the Variocam units were as easy/inexpensive to service as a dirty lifter..

Quote
tonyd
To give an optimistic example of Fixes, the Lifter issue is interesting.
Apparently the lifters can be dismantled,clean the ball, check the spring, inspect for cracks ,refill with oil and refit. The problem is I think this is an 'engine-out' job . So even if you have no lifter noise ,cleaning and inspecting them should(?) be on the to-do list when you have the engine out and apart. It would be a pity to miss this and then get lifter noise after you've re-installed the engine.
I wish the Variocam units were as easy/inexpensive to service as a dirty lifter..

but instead replaces them. All on that bank. This follows the factory repair guidelines. The concern is there are bad batch of lifters so to reduce the possibility of a bring back and an even worse customer experience -- I heard of one new owner refusing to accept his new 996 back after it had its lifters to replace so even just having one or some get noisy and replacing them doesn't always leave a customer with the warm fuzzies... -- the factory says to replace all lifters.

Out of warranty, of course, an owner could clean and replace and hope the lifter wasn't damaged and thus compromised and would cause problems later on.

Also, I was told the other day that sometimes the lifter if it collapses can damage the cam lobe. The lifter remaining stationary or with limited movement causes the cam lobe to wear. The lobe is lubed by leakage of oil from around the lifter body and if this leakage is diminished this can ruin the cam.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2014 12:30PM by MarcW. (view changes)

Yes, but I have to remove the engine for other reasons anyway! And I have to emove the trans. And I hope not to repeat too often :-).
Thanks for confirming the importance of the issue. A careful cleaning and inspection will confirm is replacements are required.
If the concern is ticking noises, I previously linked to a piece that mentions several alternative and unrelated causes of the noise.That may be why some report lifter replacement was ineffective.

Quote
tonyd
Yes, but I have to remove the engine for other reasons anyway! And I have to emove the trans. And I hope not to repeat too often :-).
Thanks for confirming the importance of the issue. A careful cleaning and inspection will confirm is replacements are required.
If the concern is ticking noises, I previously linked to a piece that mentions several alternative and unrelated causes of the noise.That may be why some report lifter replacement was ineffective.

the zero lash adjuster to lose oil pressure.

A cleaning may not remove some fine debris that has become caught in the valve body's oil reservoir and which can come loose once the dirty valve lifter is put back into service and this debris then fouls the ball check valve and the ticking returns.

The lifters are replaced. If this doesn't solve the problem, and the word I get is it almost always does. then the engine is replaced. I'm speaking of what is done under warranty, of course.

Out of warranty one has the option of the clean and inspect and reuse but in my opinion this is a two edged sword. A cleaning and inspection, as I touched upon above, may not deliver the expected good results. Thus the job has to be done again. And there is the risk of collateral damage. The lifter may take out the cam or it may score the lifter bore and thus ruin the head.

In the past with other engines, whenever the engine was opened up I took great pains to ensure it never had to be opened up again. This was the training and advise I received from much more experienced auto mechanics, professional ones. Now this didn't mean one couldn't save money. For instance I was told that it was perfectly acceptable if one found an undersized main bearing on a crank that only that journal needed to be reground undersized and an oversized bearing fitted. The other unworn bearing journals could be left alone. This may not be ideal for an all out race engine, but for a street engine, which is all I was concerned about, it was perfectly acceptable and there would be no issues from this.

With my Boxster, the only time it was opened up, to replace a VarioCam solenoid and actuator on the passenger side, I instructed the tech to inspect the other hardware and replace whatever he felt needed replacing. He found nothing even remotely needing replacement. We talked about the other side, the VarioCam actuator and its chain guides/rails. The tech said based on the lack of wear on the one that was pulled from the engine he didn't feel it worth the cost to replace the other side without any other signs of it needing replacement. And there were no other signs.

Short cuts are risky. My philosophy is to fix it right, the first time.

improving lubrication. This may mean reducing the acidity ( discussed at length here recently), changing the oil more often (to achieve lower acidity and dilution); techno-sump or similar (to avoid starvation on #6), and the usual good sense that most people ignore like running a car easy until its fully warmed up.

I've not heard of lifter issues.

The number of sprockets that separates is very small; the number of IMS issues is larger. Worry about primary issues, not secondary ones.

Are M96s worth rebuilding? Well, its not cheap. Value though, is not an objective question entirely.

Overall, more-used cars fare better than garage queens so "drive it an enjoy it".

I have addressed the sump ( since i am on track a lot) and the IMS.

Remember that Wayne and others like him are in the business of selling parts, fixes and other solutions. But first, one needs a problem.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Grant,
This is what I learned about M96 Lifters.I am a novice at this ,so it isn't my experience/opinion:
The problem lifters are part # 996 105 041 50. These are replaced by upgraded # 996 105 041 72. The original ones had a tendency to wear prematurely or shatter by design. The retainers or housing that holds all the lifters was also changed for better cam lobe oiling.Later models may vary the #s.
The concern with lifters is the 'ticking' noise they generate when failing is easy to confuse with timing chain issues.So I may replace all the timing chain 'pads', yet still have the ticking noise if the problem was (some) lifters.
My engine is an M96.21 with less than 100K miles .It has an upgraded IMS .It started to tick,then knock.I dropped the pan and found what looks like debris from babbitt bearing(s).So an engine tear down of some degree and full examination is required.
To answer a previous comment -if the 4-5-6 sprocket on the IMS tube has even a slight chance of slipping time, and I have the engine dismantled anyway, why not consult a "Modes of Failure & Fixes" List ,find the fix and stake the sprocket ?(or whatever the fix is).
Why do all this extra preventative work? The cost of rebuilding an M96 or 87 engine - it is more than I just paid for the entire car! I $ure don't want to repeat the experience more often than necessary . And it all takes a huge amount of time -which is O.K. but I don't want to repeat it all just because of my ignorance.
In answer to JohnL, yes I am looking forward to driving the car .But more important, I would like to share and make accesible to others who follow ,a list of failures+fixes that newbies like me can find on this Forum.

- lilely failure modes and
- less likely ones

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Grant,
You too have a good objective! But as a newbie I certainly don't have the knowledge to state the probability of each 24 modes of failure occurring.Can you rate them for us? Hence my suggestion that 'while you are in there' - do all of them that you can. And those you can't do yourself (like cylinder head cracks or bore ovality ,for example) be vigilant about examining for.
This do-all-of-them approach is not my bright idea .It is what the two most quoted Gurus on the subject actually do. The problem is that their good work costs far more($10-20K!) than the value of an older Boxster with a defective engine(like mine). And that is the value of this List project. I hope -to match faults with fixes(regardless of the price/skill required) to take the uncertainty out of the issue.
For example: IMS problem, DOF solution = $800 in parts +labor assuming no additional damge .But also requires $600? in special tools.
Lifter tick -clean ,inspect,refill,replace = $0 in parts but 30+ hours of diy to get to them ! Or -24 new lifters = $700.
Timing chain pad replacement = $ 300+- for parts but 20+ hrs of diy to get to them.
Mike Focke generously published a List but it needs prices for parts and labor hours?
[sites.google.com]
-Update the IMS bearing
-Replace the water pump
-Replace lifters with FSI updated units
-Replace chain guides and vario-cam wear pads
-Replace clutch assembly
-Replace AOS
-Replace RMS with 997 unit
-4th and 5th timing chains replaced
-Install new low temp thermostat
-Install Spin On Oil Filter Adaptor

1. those gurus are looking to make money. Spending more ($20k!!!!!!!) to rebuild a motor than it is possibly worth makes no sense. treat that advice as an advertisement.
2. Some of the suggested fixes are, in my opinion (let's see what Pedro and Marc think), questionable at best. Low temp thermostat? Huh? Under the toughest conditions most cars have the t-stat wide open anyway. Plus, cooler is not always better - in fact for day-to-day use it increases dilution and acid. IMNSHO, a terrible idea - pay to have it taken away
3. RMS, in 99.9% of cases, is a nuisance at worst. On the other hand, when you are in there, its $20 and takes 10 minutes
4. other things on your list are good "while you are in there" ideas, but hardly need discussion (clutch assembly, AoS, etc)
5. DoF - good idea
6. Chain pads - if you have easy access, good idea
7. Deep baffled sump like technosump - good idea if you track the car and are advanced enough to pull > 1G
8. lifters - never heard of this a a common, serious problem - noise? Sometimes, yea. So what?
9. Ovality - that's wear - go back to lubrication and don't run cars hard when they are cold Cold pistons are......oval. Parts only fit together properly at operating temperature.


finally, there is more and more evidence that says that part of the issue with M96 motors is that so many are garage queens, driven lightly. Couple this with stupidly long drain intervals from Porsche (sarcasm alert - "who has more at stake than us") and a IMS bearing that is subject to wear, AND a complex timing chain assembly, and we have recipe for trouble.

What to do? Simple:

1. routinely drive it long and hard enough to boil off that crap
2. change the oil twice as often, maybe more, with anything appropriate - steering clear of that hole

Grant
Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2014 09:47AM by grant. (view changes)

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

'Low temp thermostat?'
That is a JR/CN fix. I defer to their superior knowledge(compared to mine!).They won't make a fortune selling thermostats ! Ceramic bearings perhaps.
And other bright minds (not mine) agree. Ditto the lifter story.

This is relevant & in favor of a low temp Tstat with a convincing explanation:
[986forum.com]
and note the Hartech link which meets most of the objectives for this tread that I started. The problems and fixes are there -just need part numbers, prices and labor.
[www.hartech.org]

Lots of babble all over about "keeping down damaging temps.

Except .... it doesn't. It only keeps down normal temps, which results in low boil off.

On the cars that truly get hot ( track cars) the t-stat is wide open all the time.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Grant,
You are disagreeing with Hartech,Raby & Navarro ,not me.
I have declared my noobness many times.I am here to listen & learn.
What part of Hartech's research paper I linked above does your research challenge?

Charles is a good and smart guy. But i still can't accept that a) something that's out of the system makes a difference or that b) something that lowers the putting temperature is not bad, when acid and dilution are the known killers.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

1. it opens later than it should. That means its defective
2. there is a delay due to the cooling design. I cannot confirm or deny, but i never see fluxuations.

Note that regardless, a lower temp T-stat WILL have adverse effects when you are not pushing it and developing a hot spot.

Now, what real-world failures we we see a lot of? Timing chains. IMS bearing. Cyl #6 starvation. and a bunch of inconvenience stuff ( AoS, RMS, motor mount) which can be corrected after they fail and are detected with little or no consequence.

So why am i worried about the local hotspots int he heads, that rarely have issues? and why would i compromise my lubrication to achieve this debatable (t best) benefit?

Well, I would not.

not sure where you are trying to go. You seem to have selected your sources for good material already. You may be right, but i cant yet square it with the facts. The big difference is i have nothing to sell. Oh, and i do, as part of a car-club post, see hundreds of M96s annually, over a period of time, so i have some (statistically loose, built-in bias, all that, yes) basis for judgements.

I like my list, and Pedro posted nearly an identical one, except that he included a lot of things that are clearly systematic failures, but not fatal.

Lubrication. PH balance. easy when cold. Rinse and repeat.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Here is an example of a previous thread where nuggets of info are offered during the banter. Pedro makes the useful observation that a mild 'refresh' is the prudent approach.

[pedrosboard.com]

with the main bearings - aparently. The crankshaft supports too much weight at the flywheel and - some say - that is a defect which results in spun bearings.

I had not heard this before, however my mechanic is fixing this issue right now on a 1999 model.

JM, Thanks for your contribution - like mine yours is a real time,current ,active repair project involving lots of expense compared to the value of the car. It demands much more finesse with the 'while we are in there' choices than many other cars.
Is your mechanic suggesting a lightweight or carefully re-balanced flywheel+clutch? The experts seem reluctant to recommend lightweight flywheels for these cars.I fitted one to a Miata (not because of bearing issues like yours) and it made the engine seem more eager to rev. The part was inexpensive so it was an easy choice. Not so much with the Boxster?
What else are you planning to do? For example wrist pin bearings,....

JM ,
Here is a link that supports your mechanic's opinion from well respected Porsche sources in U.K.
[www.pistonheads.com].

If I implied that my car was the one with the fault, my apologies. It was my mechanic's personal car.

Ultimately he had the crank shaft re-engineered locally and rebuilt the engine with new bearings etc.

enough sample size - and I think there are enough of these cars out there to qualify for large enough sample size -- at some point any component (now that I think about it even some stationary ones like a head gasket or an internal coolant seal) that can fail and take out the engine is going to fail.

For those more common failures, like IMSB, there are some aftermarket solutions that if one is so inclined can have installed. How these solutions will pan out in the long term remains to be seen.

For harsh -- read track -- usage there are some mods that address some of the shortcomings of the engine and can probably prevent any issues arising from these shortcomings.

For some owners there is always the preemptive engine rebuild but that's just out of the question for the majority of owners. Also, the rebuild doesn't get rid of the parts that can fail, it just (maybe) replaces them with in some cases better parts, and if not better at least new. (Which then brings with it the risk of infant death, a new part failing due to a manufacturing defect, which is why anyone having an engine rebuilt needs to use a shop that offers a substantial warranty. The factory offers for us USA owners a 4 year, 50K mile warranty.)

From what I get to see of these cars on a daily basis, here's my list in order of occurrence:

1.- Front Engine Mount - 99% of 986s and 987s by 50,000 miles
2.- Coolant Cap - 99% of 986s and 987s by 100,000 miles
3.- RMS leaks - 99% of all 986 2.5 liter by 20,000 miles
4.- Spark Plug Tube O-Rings - 99% of 986s (up to 2011) by 60,000 miles
5.- Ignition Switch - 90% of all 986s by 100,000 miles
6. - Water Pump - 50% of 986s and 987s by 90,000 miles
7.- Coolant Reservoir - 50% of those that have had cap/water pump issues by 100,000 miles
8.- Air/Oil Separator - 30% of 986s and 987s by 90,000 miles
9.- Porous Block Engines - 15% of '98 and '99
10.- D-Chunk Failure - 5% of early 996s
11.- IMS Failure - 9% -12% of 2001 - 2004
12.- IMS Failure - 3% - 6% of 1997 - 2000
13- IMS Failure - 2% - 3% of 2005+
14- Ovality - Never seen one even with a tear down after 200,000 miles

YMMV

Some of the issues that are track-related aren't really issues because they're track related and can mostly be prevented, such as:
Blown AOSs - prevent by installing a Motorsport version or a DIY Racing version.
Inadequate lubrication - prevent by installing a Dry Sump, AcuSump and or Deep Sump

Oh, and by-the-way, I think that the biggest ripoff is the low temperature thermostat.
The thermostat in your house cools the building by keeping the A/C running longer or warms it by keeping the furnace running longer.
But the thermostat in your car doesn't produce or control the cooling or the heating. Let me repeat that again, the thermostat in your car doesn't produce or control the cooling or the heating.
The heating is produced by the engine's internal combustion. The harder it's run, the hotter it gets.
The cooling is controlled by the air that flows through the front radiators. The more and cooler air that flows the cooler the coolant will get. If you want more cooling install another radiator.
The only thing that the thermostat does is allow the engine to warm up quickly by not allowing coolant to flow to the radiators until it reaches its operating temperature.
If you put a 165 degree thermostat instead of the 185 degree, it will take a little longer to bring your engine to 185 because the thermostat will start cooling the antifreeze sooner than needed, but after it reaches 185 and the thermostat is wide open it has no other effect on the temperature.

These are great cars with minor issues which many times get grossly mistreated by their owners by simply not using them!
A customer and friend of mine just had me work on his pristine 2002 Carrera. He was very proud of only having put 7,700 miles on it.
Dropped it off and said: "Please fix everything that's wrong with it" ... $6,000 later he's not so proud of the 7,700 miles.

Happy Porscheing,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Thank you Pedro.I realise you are very busy and appreciate your contribution to this little Failure/Fixes project.
Your experience on this issue is worth it's weight in gold & IMS bearings:-).
You may find Hartech's research interesting so I have linked it below.
The part on thermostat location/inaccuracies/cylindr& bank variations/imbalances is thought provoking.
As an ancient Mech Eng.,I found it acedmically & practically impressive.But it is 72 pages of densly written tech ,so you need to be in geekish mode to enjoy it. Reading between it's lines, I think (?) I understand 'others' have used the Hartech info. in their offerings.
[www.hartech.org]

... right-had-drive cars behave different than ours

If a 185 degree thermostat opens at 195 degrees, then it's a 195 degree thermostat.
My car runs at its designed temperature here in Florida's tracks because I added the third center radiator and I don't use coolant. I use Water Wetter.
I'm using the standard thermostat which in my wife's range in a pot of water started to open at 179 degrees and was fully opened at 185 degrees.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Quote
Pedro (Weston, FL)
I'm using the standard thermostat which in my wife's range in a pot of water started to open at 179 degrees and was fully opened at 185 degrees.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

So Pedro, would you say that at 185 degrees the T-stat is well done?

if t-stats open at 195 they are simply defective. Mine does not either.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

To save others from Internet chatter,if you want the Failures/fixes answers :
1.just go to Pedro's post below
2. if you are a Mech Eng geek like me :[www.hartech.org]
3. ditto Section 5 of this :[www.hartech.org]
I hope this is helpful to others searching for answers from technically well qualified Porsche techs.(not me!)
No I can resume my Boxster engine work!

... they claim to be the leading Porsche Specialist in the NW (UK).
We (with my associates - TureRS) claim to be the leading Porsche Specialist in the SE (USA)
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

I love it - a question of Faith on the Boxster Forum!
I hope this isn't sacriligious but, if we understand/reconcile Pedro's book of experience with Hartech's and adjust for RHD/LHD, $/Euro, we may find ' the way,the truth & the light' to guide us to less expensive and worrisome 'Boxstering'.
Please remember my faith is being tested by a Boxster engine that died within a few days of purchase - so I am searching for wisdom and a rebuilt engine !
To be serious, my answer would be the same if Hartech asked me about the 'miracle' of TuneRs D.O.F. : it is plausible,well demonstrated(by my limited standards), & the proponent is both credentialed & honest(that is Faith,I know) .
The only part that bothers me is that one of the disciples(sorry -Sales guys) at Hartech is called "Grant" which is a very unsual first name in England -but very familiar on this Forum.....hmmmm.Is Grant a pallindrome for Troll- no ,of course not.Just stealing one of Pedros racecar terms.
Back to engine work.
Thanks for the input.Apologies for the humor(?)

[www.urbandictionary.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2014 07:41AM by Laz. (view changes)

I'm sure we can help, if you want our collective advice.

First, while your motor died within days, most dont. So relax.

Next, there's a short list of stuff that are no-brainers:

1. AoS
2. Clean or updated timing chain tensioners
3. Plug tubes
4. water pump
5. motor mount
6. Direct Oil feed; at minimum check IMS-B, replace with cheap replacement if there is any wear ($100)
7. clutch kit
8. service everything - plugs, etc.

Depending on how far apart you get it:

1. check lifters, i guess, if you want
2. timing chain guides
3. check condition/play of chains (big work if one's gone)
4. truth is, at this level its all about inspection. Look at Marc - 282k miles. Pedro - 200k. bruce - 150kish (then boom)

Now, will you track the car? New issues:

1. deep sump/baffled pan to prevent starvation. we really need a dry sump.

When back together there are simple rules than 97% of the population, including the so called experts, violate:

1. drive easy when motor is cold
2. change oil regularly - don't allow it to get diluted and acid
3. Use an oil grade that matches your climate. In the UK that's on the thinner side of the range
4. avoid lots of short trips, or, if you can't plan for a regular long, hard trip that gets the motor >> 212F for an extended period. if you have a low temp T-stat you are extra screwed here. but you have to choose who to listen to,m or do as i do, trust the facts.

And.... dont fix what ain't broke. You can easily introduce new problems. My 1-year old water pump, from the original blown motor, was vastly worse than the 14 year old water pump on the replacement motor. I went with the 14 year old one, rather than the 1 year old one or a new one. (its not THAT hard to get at)

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2014 07:57AM by grant. (view changes)

To add a data point to this thread.
The 'ticking' became louder to the point I decided to remove the sump/filter.Some bearing debris on the pickup screen,in the LN filter and at the bottom of the sump.
Engine out and dismantled. 22 of 24 lifters are jammed solid. Engine is beautifully clean inside despite 90k miles.Oil pump and scavenge pumps clean.No sludge or bearing debris found in other locations.Cams and carriers look perfect.Amazing for a 90k engine.Pity about the lifters and con rod bearing.The oil level was at max.
I'll replace all 24 lifters with the upgraded ones. last two digits are 72 (old # ends in 50). Apparently the OEM supplier (INA) also supplies BMW and these same lifters are cheaper - Bmw # 11 32 1 748 884. Just wondering if anyone has used these BMW part numbers ? It makes quite a $ difference on 24 lifters!
Yes ,there is more than Liftersto replace but that's another post! I am just hoping this comment may clarify an issue that could save others who have this issue some serious money in future.
So what caused the problem with all 22 lifters? We can only speculate .But I suspect a Technosump would have helped prevent the major portion of the problem. It occurred after a short,fast turn on a freeway on-ramp at speed. I credit the filer upgrade made by the P.O. with catching the bearing debris. How about a Techno filter+adapter ,Pedro?

all i can say is wow.

First, i am not sure if i'm awed by your driving or scared by your lack of fear, but to pull > 1G (only place where a sump will help) on public roads takes both skill and nerves - beyond mine!

No experience with BMW lifters, sorry.

Fortunately, mine all still work just fine, at least so far, and after a few moments of pump-up.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

horrific engine issues and and yet offers to insure every car with some kind of service/warranty plan. The coverage isn't 100% either. IIRC the fine print has the owner on the hook to pay for any work not done by Hartech at Hartech and my recollection is some of the most expensive work is not done at Hartech but is farmed out.

On the UK Porsche sites all one has to do is whisper "bore scoring" and Porsche owner curls up into a ball and starts to cry. Worse than the reaction from USA Porsche owners when one shouts IMSB at them.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/10/2014 02:23PM by Laz. (view changes)