Re: This is a head scratcher. Failed theft.

So today I meant to change out the winter tires for the summers. Lugged four sets of summer tires out, got all the paraphernalia lined up, and then popped the trunk to get the two sockets out for the lug nuts - one regular, one for the security bolt. Car shut down while in gear, parking brake set, apply breaker bar to loosen the security bolt first. That done, remove the security insert and get set to loosen the remaining bolts… except there are none. All the regular lug nuts for the rear driver side tire are simply gone. Not a trace in the street of them either... I've driven the car to and from work like this, presumably that's why the tire felt a little funny. But because the regular bolts are inset and black with dust, I couldn't readily see that they were gone. Nuts!

So it's off to Porsche on Monday to purchase 4 bolts at $10.40 each and wondering just what motivated someone to take those bolts.

I doubt theft of the tires makes sense. Granted, the tires are relatively recent Bizzaks, but the rims are almost 15 years old (2.5l era 16" rims). Plus, would these rims fit any cars other than Porsche's? Who'd want an ancient set of rims with the usual winter battle scars?

Other cars have had their rims + tires stolen, but for those cars were always found on milk crates and blocks of stone. The bolts would lie scattered about, and security bolts were simply chewed through. So I doubt it was professionals. Plus, the choices made more sense (i.e. relatively recent Acura or Scooby WRX STI).

I also doubt the bolts just fell out. I always torque the bolts to 95lbft with a torque wrench and none of the other bolts are loose or missing.

Perplexed I am. And worried that someone may be wanting to do me and my family harm. Nuts.

How many possibilities are there?

1. You didn't tighten the lug nuts enough (95 not enuf?) and they all fell out at about the same time.

2. Somebody tried to rob your tire/wheel setup but quit early or just needed lug nuts.

3. Yes, in fact they were trying to do you in, and removed all the lug nuts!.

We can all guess, but I hate to tell you that we will only know after you are lost when a wheel flies off your car! My guess (unless you have scary friends) relates to the 95 foot lbs.Good luck, TLC

My guess is that some one had "an order" in for your wheels. In about 2005 my daily driver was a 1999 Honda Civic. I came out one morning to find the entire rear light assembly removed. No damage to the car! They were not ripped out, but removed professionally so that replacement was easy. No damage to the trunk, body or wires. When I took my car in for replacement, my local indy mechanic said it is not uncommon for people to "fill orders" for parts for particular cars. The old 16" wheels may not sound like much, but w/o log nuts if they could have taken them all and filled an order for a few hundred bucks, that's easy money.

That is precisely what I am hoping… some addict trying to make some bucks but lacking the knowledge to remove the security lug nut.

What makes me wonder though is that the bolts were taken… not left. They have little to no value to anyone - used 13 yo bolts that presumably fit a narrow range of cars can't be that attractive a theft target. I suppose I may have overlooked them in the road but our street cleaning doesn't commence until April. That's a long time to not notice them lying in the gutter. I will look around the property, perhaps they're around the car port instead… wish I had a metal detector to make the job easier!

The whole thing kind of reminds me of a similar bizarre theft that happened here a few years ago. Our front steps rise about 6' above the mean lot height, creating a small covered area under them (think open lattice work). A flush door that blends well leads into the space. Someone went in there one night and removed two wheels off a hand truck I had bought from harbor freight. I.e. these were nothing special pneumatic tires at a replacement cost of maybe $6 each. Why the thief would make the point of removing the tires but not just take the whole cart is beyond me. Perhaps he/she fancies themselves as some sort of hilarious prankster?

I'm still wondering how to repay my guardian angel who must have been working overtime.. and/or the engineers that designed a wheel/hub interface to work with only a single remaining bolt holding the tire rim on. That said, I'll have to mark the affected bolt well and inspect it when I change the tire - there could be some damage in there.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/08/2014 09:56AM by Constantin. (view changes)

I think someone is probably is just trying to mess with you. Who would just take off 4 bolts and leave with them? More then likely, if they were planning to steal the wheels, they would've left the bolts there after discovering that there was a lock bolt. Also, what are the chances they removed the unlocked bolts only to find the lock bolt last? I think they deliberately removed all 4 unlocked bolts on purpose.They then took the bolts probably to keep it looking like nothing was awry only for you to get yourself in an accident down the road. You got any enemies CK?

Sounds about right; you might want to buy more than 4.

Do you park your car outside at night? If so, a security camera might be a good investment, along with a 19mm socket and wrench in you glove box.

So I'm trying to figure out who it could be if creating an accident was the intent. I'm thankfully not part of the witness protection program, nor do I work for an industry/company that generates a great deal of controversy. There are only two lucky contestants I can think of.

Contestant #1 is the hotheaded gardener for hire next door that had a major outburst (threatening me with bodily harm) when I met him for the first time several years ago - at the time I objected to his crew removing trucked-in topsoil from my land without my permission. He knew it was my land, my top soil, etc. but wanted to use it over at my neighbors yard. I didn't press charges, perhaps I should have. He also thinks it perfectly normal having his crew dump an entire driveway's worth of heavy snow on my plants since that's more convenient than keeping it on my neighbors lot. So, some level of motive here, but enough to want to risk and kill someone?

The other contestant is someone associated with a school director that had to leave the school mid year while I was co-chair of the board of directors. Not an easy transition that was, but the director is now in charge of another (albeit much smaller) school and received a generous severance package. So I see no strong motive.

That's about it. I know, I lead a colorful life.

Tonight, I get to change the tires and cannibalize a bolt from each other tire before moving the car back on the street. Tomorrow, I get to buy the missing bolts and mount them. Given the seemingly-increasing levels of petty theft around our neighborhood, the camera option seems like the logical next step. Not looking forward to that though. It's yet another system that has to be maintained, reviewed, etc. With three young kids, I have more than enough on my plate to keep me busy. Thank you all again for the input.

Front driver side bolts were all loose also, though still in. The only bolt that required heft was the security bolt.

So the good news appears to be that someone incompetent tried to steal my tires instead of anything more nefarious. Time to buy bolts for the other car, I guess.

At least you'd have more than one tight lug bolt if somebody had tried to tamper with you wheels.

Regarding security, there are some cameras out there with night vision capability that aren't terribly expensive; I've used a D-link camera inside the house which uploads it to a cloud for viewing. It will trigger remote alarms and record for a minute of so or take stills--for about $35.

From what I've read, this one will do what you want:
[www.amazon.com]

Night vision capability and cloud video storage.

Glad to hear that nothing bad happened and you caught the problem before it could turn ugly.

Surprised that no-one has mentioned a pre-drive 360. I learned that back when I learned to drive. Just a quick walk around the car before driving off. Missing wheel bolts on the Porsche would be pretty easy to spot. A quick visual helps detect a tire low on air or something behind/in front of a wheel that could be damaged or cause a puncture, most puddles would be visible. A 360 allows you to drive off with a little more peace of mind.

Good suggestion, and something I hadn't ever had to do re: the bolts. I've visually looked at the profiles of the tires, but I never considered that someone might walk off with the bolts themselves. On a 16" Boxster rim anno 1998, those bolts are fairly visible, as long as you make a point of looking for them (otherwise they just blend into the bolt well, it's all black on black). But on stock 2001 18" 'reverse' summer rims, the bolts in the back are practically invisible.

But a good point to take a look and confirm they're still there. At least one bolt per wheel is new now and stands out like a sore thumb.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2014 11:35PM by Constantin. (view changes)

Quote
Constantin
Good suggestion, and something I hadn't ever had to do re: the bolts. I've visually looked at the profiles of the tires, but I never considered that someone might walk off with the bolts themselves. On a 16" Boxster rim anno 1998, those bolts are fairly visible, as long as you make a point of looking for them (otherwise they just blend into the bolt well, it's all black on black). But on stock 2001 18" 'reverse' summer rims, the bolts in the back are practically invisible.

But a good point to take a look and confirm they're still there. At least one bolt per wheel is new now and stands out like a sore thumb.

[www.ebay.com]

Oh my goodness, that is a lot of crests in a very small area! Should I add some fuzzy dice or a nekkid lady decal to my mud flaps?

But seriously, thank you for thinking of this. It may be a good option for the summer rims, since the bolts are set even deeper into the rims than on the winter rims.

A better option may be physical inspection as you and others have suggested: After all, on the off-chance that someone is trying to do me harm then these covers could give me a false sense of security… i.e. the miscreant removes the covers, bolts, reinsert bolt covers but not the bolts, etc. So I'm going to resort to using a flashlight for now and/or doing a better job of cleaning out the rim holes when its wash day.

I think this product has evolved over the years--IIRC, they originally came in either black or "chrome" and the idea was to dress up the lug nut head a bit after the paint wore off. Agreed--the Porsche crests on them takes this to a new level .

Anyway, I think the second security lug bolt/wheel makes some sense with what you are going through, along with the Guenter's walk-around idea. With two lugs on that can't be removed with a regular socket, you have a better chance of being able to use the car for a short drive with someone has tampered with the wheels.

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MikenOH
I think this product has evolved over the years--IIRC, they originally came in either black or "chrome" and the idea was to dress up the lug nut head a bit after the paint wore off. Agreed--the Porsche crests on them takes this to a new level .

I scanned the archives over at 986Board to see if anyone there had any experiences with the Porsche security lug bolts. The overwhelming # of folk there don't like them because allegedly the bit breaks too easily (though the new edition appears to be stronger) and folk worry about not having the bit in the car when they need it most (i.e. when a tire does go flat). Interestingly, a poster replied stating that no one wants a 2.5l era set of wheels and that a $20 tool he posted an image of will allegedly remove any security bolt from any vehicle. Presumably, it has to be hammered on but I get his point.

So, I guess I have to resign myself to the likelihood that someone was trying to mess with me vs. 'just' stealing the tires off the Boxster.

then wait for the new something to be replaced then come back and steal the new something.

It would take a long time for all four nuts to come off the car. Even with one still secured, I'd think that there would be long-term wear signs on either the bolts or the rim holes as the nuts gradually worked their way off the bolts. Something's fishy. How's your relationship with your spouse and/or significant other?

At 95lbft of torque, those bolts do not go on easy or come off easy. I have never lost a bolt before, and I've been changing the tires from summer to winter every year since 2002. My wife hasn't lost any bolts either and I've been swapping her tires since about 2004. Her BMW may 'only' require 85lbft of torque but its enough to keep them on.

This brings up a good question though, which is what security bolts to use. When I picked up replacement bolts for the Boxster at the Porsche/Audi dealership, I also decided to source OEM Audi security bolts. They are nothing like the Porsche OEM security bolts, i.e. their pattern is not individually keyed. Any lug nut can basically acquire a universal key that fits every Audi 'security' bolt for $70 new (along with 4 bolts) or much less on the used market. So I am not convinced of the safety these bolts will provide and want to see if I can't get Porsche-like bolts for the Audi too (bolt shape and all that matters).

As for the cameras, it's something I'm considering though you have to understand that we have a lot of foot traffic on our road (dog walkers, joggers, etc.) so unless I only park the Boxster in a controlled area, I would have a lot of activity picked up that is 100% normal. That in turn creates a lot of visual chaff that I'd potentially have to go through to find the folk who decided to go after my car. Remember, I have no idea when they attempted this theft. It may have been months ago. In a garage, an IP cam makes 100% sense, but on a relatively frequently used road… you'd be looking through an awful lot of false motion-triggered events.

The McCard master key set for all Audi security keys is currently sold for $205 on Amazon to anyone. It appears that McCard may in fact have about 20 different patterns, not a single one as I suggested above.

That said, I'm not sure if I shouldn't return the McCard set before I put it on the Audi wagon. Seems to me that their 'security' is merely feel-good. Not sure if the Porsche bolts would fit, even if the thread diameter and pitch is the same. Have to measure bolt lengths… and the radius of the ball. If they are similar though, I'll use a set of Porsche security bolts from now on.

I had to have my car towed today because of a vibration coming from rear left tire...when I pulled over to check it out 3 lug bolts missing...gone...I checked them 16 days ago and they were at 96 lbft of torque...

I think I am going to go to the garage and count lug bolts!

Lawdevil
2013 Boxster S - Agate Grey,
2016 Macan Turbo - jet black
Cashiers, NC & Atlanta

as someone else suggested.

While the situations you mentioned in a later post may not seem worthy of revenge by the other parties involved of the sort that involves removing lug bolts, I'd not dismiss that as an explanation.

And they could try something else.

Also, you might want to consider buying several security bolts for each wheel, and use these for a time, just so you have more than one lug bolt holding each wheel on in case someone tries this again.

Quote
MarcW
as someone else suggested.

While the situations you mentioned in a later post may not seem worthy of revenge by the other parties involved of the sort that involves removing lug bolts, I'd not dismiss that as an explanation.

And they could try something else.

Also, you might want to consider buying several security bolts for each wheel, and use these for a time, just so you have more than one lug bolt holding each wheel on in case someone tries this again.

It seems nuts to think that someone would be into potentially harming me. But I cannot discount the possibility based on the evidence. The cop was certainly perplexed that the bolts were gone. FWIW, the McCards of the world only want you to use one security bolt per wheel. Maybe its a McCard thing, i.e. they don't have a lot of faith in their bolts. But more closely inspecting the car before each drive is definitely on my list of things to do from now on.

Cameras are another option. Though our street is very busy with foot traffic (joggers, walkers, dog owners, and so on) so the camera would be triggered a lot. Plus how to install it where it can get a good view yet remain relatively invisible - our house is set back 70' from the street and there are no poles, trees, or other obvious things to mount a camera to with an unobstructed view that are close enough to the road to make for a clear picture. I may have to look into security cameras that are hidden inside plastic rocks or bird houses.

security bolts to hold the wheel on.

If the security bolt maker cautions against using more than one then don't use more than one.

You'll have to find another way to discourage or catch whoever is removing the wheel bolts if indeed that is how they are turning up missing.

Is that the chance of them getting to the security bolt last is low. So they probably saw it and still continued to take the other bolts off.

Round lug bolt caps might defeat thieves that dumb.