Re: Value purchase

I needed to know what all the hubbub was all about in regards the new 981S Manual VS 987S Manual.
.

Well on the beauteous day in Southern Ontario, sunny & 68 degrees F my wife and I went to a dealership around an hour away to drive a new 981S.

Now I had a ride in Guenters 981s and it was very nice, however as a passenger you feel ...well like a passenger.

This is the 981S I drove with 42.0 KM on the ODmeter



Nice rims....I know These are the same rims I have used on the configurator a gazillion times.

This is the "sweet ride of mine"...(Guns and Roses)



When we arrived at the dealership they were having a huge dual event:
1) Live Le Mans
2) World cup football

Breakfast, Lunch, refreshments and free Porsche t shirts for the first million people..well maybe I am exaggerating a wee.
Very exciting place with a plethora of P cars. I think I was the only one there to test drive a car.

Donna and I had to wait for the car to return as another great looking couple were out on a drive and the sales guy said that they will be back soon. As it was my first time there I had some time to browse...nice place to kill time.

I saw the car come back and the couple handed the keys to the Salesman who escorted us to the car and told Donna and I where to go....not the first time.

We were gone for about 30 min and these are my thoughts on the 981S: (IMHO)

Steering: Not as connected (feel) to the road as the 987S...very smooth and feels precise though.
Handling: Nice..totally can see how the longer wheelbase helps you feel like you are on rails.
Comfort: 30 Min is not a lot of time, but similar to the 987S
Engine Music: Very different as I went up and down the revs. The sound seems a bit louder but not as throaty...more soprano
Power: 35 more HP then my 987S...yea kind of...(Really helped me to decide not to tune or modify my 987S as the gains would most likely be not be obvious)
Visibility: They has the rear wind screen off and I understand why Pedros is selling the technowind . I would miss looking at the 987 curves front and back from the drivers seat as the 981s seems straight lined.

Based on this test drive I know I will be enjoying my 987S for many/few years to come....unless someone wants to sell me their 2012 987S Boxster Black edition.

As new Boxster editions are released in the coming years, I will most definitely test drive them and see if I can get more excited as I did when I first drove the 987 back in 2005.

If there is anyone that thinks their 987 is not up to par..go to the P dealership and find out what your HO may be and act accordingly.

MIKELLIG

MIKELLIG



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2014 07:01PM by BLKBOXS. (view changes)

It didn't have a MANual transmission.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

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Gary in SoFL
It didn't have a MANual transmission.

Yes it did Gary. Very smooth and effortless...I Drove a 991S with MANual 7 speed last summer and it felt identical...very smooth and effortless...I was one of the things I wasn't sure that I really liked? It almost felt too good..if there is such a thing.....I am sure I would get over it though.

MIKELLIG

MIKELLIG

I stand corrected. The manual in my 991 is butter smooth. No need for a short shifter or the old gear cocktail lube.

Had the chance to drive a 6 speed manual Cayman, and it to is very smooth and superbly tight. Driving a bunch of models, all with PDK, at the Porsche Road Show was cool, but a bit less involved.

It is amazing how little difference there is in driving joy between a 986, 987 and 981. Porsche knows sports cars. Just wish they would quite trying to make them all into GT cruisers, with auto everything.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

It is reassuring to those of us who have, and very much enjoy, our 987's.

From everything I've read, the 981 is an evolution, which, in many respects is an improvement on the 987. Of course, improving on a car that is damned near perfect, means the improvements are incremental, not night and day. Your back-to-back comparison is consistent with that.

Have to agree with both Mike and Roger. The changes from the 987 to the 981 are incremental. One of the reasons why I love Porsches and specifically Boxsters. To most people, a well maintained 986 or 987 still looks like a thoroughly modern, new car, unlike most cars, that after 3 o 4 years look like "one of the old" models. With the mid engine design, it's one of the ultimate handling cars. What's not to love about a timeless, modern design.

I loved my 987 and I'd still be driving it if it weren't for the impending change from the Boxster's flat six to a turbo 4 banger and of course, the threat of no longer being able to get a manual.

I completely agree with what Mike said about the power increase. When you look at HP vs 0 - 60 mph times for the Boxster (taking factory figures), it seems that about every 15 HP knocks 0.1 seconds off that time. My butt-o-meter is not sensitive enough to tell the difference between 5.1 or 5.0 to 60 mph. I know I've stated in the past, that for the extra $3K you pay for the Boxster / Cayman GTS, essentially, you get a different front and rear pumper design and are quicker to 60 mph by 0.1 seconds. Basically, it comes down to which of the two bumper designs you like best.

Mike, I noticed you didn't mention anything about the manual, what difference did you find in the position, action and throw of the 981 shifter compared to the 987?

I think that for me, the biggest improvements are the fact that I went form a standard to an S, with 75 HP extra. That I can feel. Then there's the Sports Suspension and PSE, which for me at least, turn a great car like the Boxster into a fabulous, terrific sounding and handling sports car.

I have to say, Mike, I think that with your trip to the dealer on Saturday, you've made a number of people really happy. First there's Donna, for now she knows that her shoe and purse budget will remain in tact. Secondly, at least now, other people will finally have a chance to play with the Configurator too.

I would call the 987 an incremental improvement over the 986. In fact many parts swap. The 981 is a new car, different chassis, suspension, wheelbase, blah, blah.

On both AX and track I find it to be more capable - able to simply go where the old car slithers and maybe begins to spin - higher limits, fewer nasty traits. I've driven both 991s and 981s at AX, pretty much the most extreme condition (you can safely take the car > 10/10) and i find their limits higher and their behaviour more benign.

That said, to the thread above, the feedback is slightly more filtered as well. Smoother, less intrusive, but a bit less involving. Darned good, mind you.

Money no object I'd take one in a millisecond. Cayman S Manual, please.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

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Guenter in Ontario
Mike, I noticed you didn't mention anything about the manual, what difference did you find in the position, action and throw of the 981 shifter compared to the 987?

Sorry for the delay Guenter...I was just rereading your comments and realized there was a question there...how dopey of me

The shifter is in a higher position than the 987 and it felt very comfortable very quickly and the shifts were precise and silky smooth...very nice..I got back into my 987 and the stock 6 speed shifter is ergonomically comfortable and the shifting take a little more (please don't ask me to define "little more" ) mustard than the 981S.

It always comes down to a little less (please don't ask me to define "little less" ) driver's involvement as Porsche "evolutionizes" the perfect Boxster.

MIKELLIG

MIKELLIG

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BLKBOXS

Sorry for the delay Guenter...I was just rereading your comments and realized there was a question there...how dopey of me

The shifter is in a higher position than the 987 and it felt very comfortable very quickly and the shifts were precise and silky smooth...very nice..I got back into my 987 and the stock 6 speed shifter is ergonomically comfortable and the shifting take a little more (please don't ask me to define "little more" ) mustard than the 981S.

It always comes down to a little less (please don't ask me to define "little less" ) driver's involvement as Porsche "evolutionizes" the perfect Boxster.

MIKELLIG

...hmmmm maybe if Porsche were to substitute mustard for grease in the 981 shifter mechanism it would help give it more driver involvement.

How did you find the length of the shift throws compared to your 987's? (I know, another question. )

How did you find the length of the shift throws compared to your 987's? (I know, another question. )


Good Question Guenter.

I did not notice the difference...maybe because of the positioning..It did feel different, neither good nor bad...just different....I don't remember the throws being an obvious observation.

MIKELLIG

Longer wheelbase = farther from base

Sorry folks, Porsche is, well.......

Peace
Bruce in Philly

I owned my 1999 986 for 10 years and 50,000 miles. When I test drove a 987, I could almost swear I was driving the same car! Except it was a 987S and the power difference was very noticeable. Going from 200 to 300 HP, a 150% increase, was very nice. But the handling? Same car to me. I did DE in the 986, but not the 987. I autoxed the 987 and although it has better times because of the power, the exquisite handling is quite similar. Bottom line, I agree with other comments here, the drivability of the car was damn near perfect out of the box(ster). Improvements are subtle, but not earth shattering. 986, 987, 981 - you can't go wrong.

1999 Arctic Sivler/black/black (sold)
2008s Silver/black/black - so predictable
2011 Outback
8/24/2011 first Grandson

The longer wheelbase adds to the comfort level in two ways: there's less choppiness to the ride, and there's more straight line directional stability. Having PASM also helps in that in Normal range it can calibrate itself to be softer than the standard suspension.

The "handling" probably has at least as much to do with the wider front track (less need for dialed-in understeer) as it does the longer wheelbase.

The 3.4 engine in mine began to sound different at about 14,000 miles. Now, at 33,000 miles, and for the last 10,000 or so, it has a real growling throatiness and banshee wail.

Visibility: Pedro's windstop is a big help, as the mesh makes everything in the rear view seem indistinct, but there's no getting around (and over) roll bar hoop configuration and the rear deck hump. I think the mesh was purely a styling decision, as Porsche must realize Lexan functions better.

I bought my wife a used '00 BoxsterS (Tip) about 10 years ago. A truly fine car. She enjoyed it; I enjoyed it. Far better handling than any street car I'd ever driven, and certainly fast enough on the street. (I've autocrossed and road raced for decades and have a dedicated racecar, a Radical ProSport, so I don't take the Porsche on the track.) Last Spring I ordered a 981S (PDK) for myself; delivered in December. A great car -- worth the wait.

But I was somewhat disappointed (!?!) that (at $90k out the door) it was not that much different than my wife's (14 year old, <$15k value) car. A bit tighter and faster and with a significantly more upscale interior and geegaws, but certainly not a "value" purchase. Still, I greatly enjoyed driving my new Boxster for many months. Then I drove my wife's car again. It hadn't changed during the interval, but my perceptions had. The 986S seemed much looser and softer and substantially less refined than I had remembered it.

Strange, but the step between the cars didn't seem as significant going up as it did going down.

YMMV.

... none is as serious, profound nor extreme as these words spoken by Mephistopheles in Marlowe's Dr. Faustus:
"Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it. Think'st thou that I, who saw the face of God And tasted the eternal joys of heaven, Am not tormented with ten thousand hells In being deprived of everlasting bliss?"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2014 03:40PM by Laz. (view changes)

I've posted this before, but over time (considering inflation and price increases) the differences between the 986 and the 981 are significant.

Our 986, which had a few options, was purchased for about $45K in 1999; our 981S ran about $62K after the haggling process.
In 2012 $'s, the 986 $'s are virtually the same.

So, for roughly equivalent dollars, we got a100+HP bump, stability control, bigger brakes, 6 speed tranny, stiffer chassis, better interior......

In some respects it may not seem like the cars are that different, at least in the basic design, but the sum of all of the changes over the past 15 have taken it to a very different performance and styling level.

You've hit the nail on the head, Mike. The basic design was and is a great handling car with its mid engine, rear wheel drive layout. It still looks like a Boxster, but definitely updated. Porsche has continued to improve and refine it. For people who drive the car at 4 or 5 tenths of its capability (likely the majority of owners), they're not going to notice that much of difference. I think the improvements in handling shows up more as you start to drive it a little harder (and I'm not just talking about straight line acceleration.)

And, as you said, taking inflation into account, you are really getting a lot more car if you compare a 2000 to a 2014, both without any options. It's true, you can push the price of a Boxster over the $100K mark (at least in Canada), but then you're buying a lot of options that weren't even available back in 2000. That's a matter of personal choice and how much of your wallet you want to give up.

Just imagine if you had a 2000 and 2014 Boxster, both straight off the assembly line, no options and each priced at lets say $50K (remember we're adjusting the price of the 2000 for inflation). Which one would you pick?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2014 05:45PM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)

Quote
Guenter in Ontario
You've hit the nail on the head, Mike. The basic design was and is a great handling car with its mid engine, rear wheel drive layout. It still looks like a Boxster, but definitely updated. Porsche has continued to improve and refine it. For people who drive the car at 4 or 5 tenths of its capability (likely the majority of owners), they're not going to notice that much of difference. I think the improvements in handling shows up more as you start to drive it a little harder (and I'm not just talking about straight line acceleration.)

And, as you said, taking inflation into account, you are really getting a lot more car if you compare a 2000 to a 2014, both without any options. It's true, you can push the price of a Boxster over the $100K mark (at least in Canada), but then you're buying a lot of options that weren't even available back in 2000. That's a matter of personal choice and how much of your wallet you want to give up.

Just imagine if you had a 2000 and 2014 Boxster, both straight off the assembly line, no options and each priced at lets say $50K (remember we're adjusting the price of the 2000 for inflation). Which one would you pick?

Completely agree, Guenter.
What they've done with the car's performance capabilities might not be noticed at legal speeds, but on the track this car has been transformed.
I notice most it chassis rigidity and suspension--there is virtually no lean in high speed turns, more grip and when you turn the wheel, the response it immediate and precise. Some feel has been lost the larger tires and electric steering but I think the benefits out weight the loss.