Thanks, Pedro. Nice explanation. *NM*

Folks,

I cannot find the spec for the anitfreeze/coolant.

It appears to be the pink Pentosin. I think its the same stuff i have in the Audi... Pentosin G001200/

What is the difference between G001200 and "G12 plus plus" (Pentosin/ 4-rings)

Any quick info? I want to pick some up.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Pentosin G12 Plus Plus is reported to contain no nitrites, amines or phosphorous containing additives. In addition, it does not contain any silicates.

Pentosin G12 is reported to contain no nitrates, amines, or phosphorous additives, but it does contain silicates.

My info is Pentosin without silicates is for early Boxsters, 911's, and earlier water cooled Porsches.

And Pentosin with silicates is for Porsches from 2006 to 2009. I do not know what antifreeze is for use in MY's since 2009.

See here:

[www.pentosin.net]

that while I quoted from the info at the links and supplied the links I do not query the service department about silicate levels or if there are any nitrates, amines, or phosphorous in the antifreeze. Instead I just have the antifreeze used that the factory calls for. The parts department manager looks up the anti-freeze based on my car's VIN and that is what the tech uses. Or in one case this is what I buy when I bought a jug of Porsche anti-freeze to have handy just in case.

which is why I just put in or have put in what the parts manager looks up and finds what Porsche has approved for my car based on its VIN.

Besides, it may not be metallurgy that plays as big a role. Several years ago I had the water pump replaced. The water pump was selected based on my car's VIN. Therefore I use the anti-freeze which is also selected based on my car's VIN with the belief that the water pump seal and whatever else comes in contact with the anti-freeze is compatible with the anti-freeze.

You want phosphate free and silicate free coolant.
Check each one against these compound as.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Both G001200 and G12 plus plus are silicate and phosphate free.

G12 plus plus is the latest formulation, G12 plus one earlier, G001200 even earlier.

All are compatible per Pentosin and VW/Audi.

VW, Audi, Pentosin, and a few others all use the same generic designation "G12". It is supposedly identical to the stuff in Porsche as well.

Basic glycol derivative made by or under license from BASF. One of the major suppliers is, interestingly, Zerex, so that may be the same as well.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

because i had a container of that.

Assuming by 50/50 you mean "can i mix" - according to the manufacturer, yes.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

The reason for the gelling is the following:
In the old days of Porsche water cooling (the 80s),
most of the engine blocks were made of iron.
Iron blocks need phosphate and silicate to form a thin layer on the metal to protect it from oxidation.
By the same token, phosphate and silicate we're not good for aluminum blocks which Porsche was pioneering.
So, iron and aluminum blocks needed different components in their coolant to protect the innards.
But, the two types of coolant with phosphate and silicate and without phosphate and silicate are not compatible and may gel when mixed.
It's not Porsche coolant that gelled, it was the disparity of the solutions.
Now a days most of the coolants on the market, even those safe for iron blocks are phosphate and silicate free
They will state so on their label and will also state that they are safe to use with any other coolant.
Hope this helps explain it a bit.
For more detailed info, here's one of my Tech Articles on that same subject:
[pedrosgarage.com]

Happy Cooling
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 08:03AM by Pedro (Weston, FL). (view changes)

Quote
grant
Both G001200 and G12 plus plus are silicate and phosphate free.

G12 plus plus is the latest formulation, G12 plus one earlier, G001200 even earlier.

All are compatible per Pentosin and VW/Audi.

VW, Audi, Pentosin, and a few others all use the same generic designation "G12". It is supposedly identical to the stuff in Porsche as well.

Basic glycol derivative made by or under license from BASF. One of the major suppliers is, interestingly, Zerex, so that may be the same as well.

Grant

How do you reconcile what you posted with the info from the Pentosin web site I provided? Allow me to cut and paste the pertinent information.

Pentofrost SF (formerly G12) is claimed to be without silicates and is listed for use in the Porsche Boxster, 911, Cayman & Cayenne (1996 on).

Pentofrost++ is claimed to have silicates and is listed for use in Porsches (all models 2006-2009).


PENTOFROST SF (without silicates)
(Formerly LIFETIME ANTIFREEZE G12)
Size: 1.5 liters (1.59 quarts), Part# 8114107
Color: Pink & Clear
Audi (after 06/1996 up to 2005); Spec. TL 744 F
Jaguar (1997 on)
Land Rover Freelander, Discovery, Defender(1998 on)
Porsche Boxster, 911, Cayman & Cayenne (1996 on)
Saab (2001 on)
Volkswagen (after 06/1996 up to 2005); Spec. TL 744 F

PENTOFROST ++ (with silicates)
(Replaced by PENTOFROST E)
Size: 1.5 liters (1.59 quarts), Part# 8112106
5 liters (1.32 US gallons), Part# 8112206
Color: Pink & Clear
Audi (all models 2006 on); Spec. TL 774 G
Porsche (all models 2006-2009)
Volkswagen (all models 2006 on); Spec TL 774 G

.. and in fact as i re-read, your own info conflicts with you, because above you wrote:

"Pentosin G12 Plus Plus is reported to contain no nitrites, amines or phosphorous containing additives. In addition, it does not contain any silicates."

So now it has silicates? Note I referred to G12 plus plus, 4-rings, not to pentafrost (which none of the containers actually say).

G

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2014 11:15AM by grant. (view changes)

Since we were hanging out in between cars (which with NYC traffic were relatively spaced out).

he says that most of the VW/Audi/Porsche stuff is compatible. In fact, while Porsche has changed its stuff over the years, Porsche apparently supplies only one formulation today and it is used in all cars - old and new ( well, not in air cooled cars).

Anyway, those bottles that said, did not have silicates or phosphates. A lonely bottle of Dex cool was mum on the subject.

I also saw bottles of G12 and G12 + + laying around. Also some thing i have never seen before like BG DOT4+ brake fluid (oddly labeled, something about dry flush properties).

For anyone looking, they have two smoking deals on Caymans - one base with ZERO options ($49k!!!) and one S at a big discount, with an extended warranty and other goodies. Both new.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

a small European document on G12 plus plus and G13:





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2014 09:56AM by Leqc. (view changes)

I wonder what changes after 2005 for Porsche.....?

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com