Re: Battery replacement, check engine lights, code reset, etc. Any experience and advice with this? |  |  |
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| Battery replacement, check engine lights, code reset, etc. Any experience and advice with this? Bobtesa - 9 years ago |
I wrote a few days ago about a dead battery and getting the front hood opened. Did that and replaced the battery with EOM from dealer (so the battery itself is an unlikely culprit).
With the new battery in the TPMS and the clock did not work, and the yellow and red check engine lights were on. I drove the car for a few long runs anyway and it ran great. I just thought that with the battery disconnected the codes needed to be reset. So, this morning I dropped by my indy shop, they hooked up the computer and about 20 codes popped up (I can list them if anyone thinks it will help, but I am pretty sure they are all false positives). Andrew, my tech, said this should not happen. It wouldn't matter how long the battery was dead or out, putting in a new battery should work w/o this issue (except for the clock for some odd reason, and I think the TPMS). He reset the clock, and then reset all the codes. I drove away and the check engine lights came back on. He speculated it might be the alternator, but at this point it is speculation. They did me a favor making room for me today, a more detailed look will require that i drop the car off in a few weeks. In the meantime, I thought I might benefit from any knowledge from the board about what might be happening.
This may or may not be related, but it is an interesting coincidence: My driver's side window creeps down a fraction of an inch when driving. I keep pushing the button up to seal it, but it creeps back down. I have tried rolling it all the way down and up, but that does not help. Although this gremlin may re-appear, it seems to be gone now. "Now" being just today on the ride home. Could that be the result of resetting codes? Is the window function part of the car's internal program?
With the new battery in the TPMS and the clock did not work, and the yellow and red check engine lights were on. I drove the car for a few long runs anyway and it ran great. I just thought that with the battery disconnected the codes needed to be reset. So, this morning I dropped by my indy shop, they hooked up the computer and about 20 codes popped up (I can list them if anyone thinks it will help, but I am pretty sure they are all false positives). Andrew, my tech, said this should not happen. It wouldn't matter how long the battery was dead or out, putting in a new battery should work w/o this issue (except for the clock for some odd reason, and I think the TPMS). He reset the clock, and then reset all the codes. I drove away and the check engine lights came back on. He speculated it might be the alternator, but at this point it is speculation. They did me a favor making room for me today, a more detailed look will require that i drop the car off in a few weeks. In the meantime, I thought I might benefit from any knowledge from the board about what might be happening.
This may or may not be related, but it is an interesting coincidence: My driver's side window creeps down a fraction of an inch when driving. I keep pushing the button up to seal it, but it creeps back down. I have tried rolling it all the way down and up, but that does not help. Although this gremlin may re-appear, it seems to be gone now. "Now" being just today on the ride home. Could that be the result of resetting codes? Is the window function part of the car's internal program?
| Hmmm. I'm not going to be all that helpful, but.... grant - 9 years ago |
Removing a battery should not and does not cause codes. I have disconnected my battery some many times working on the airbag and seats recently that i pretty much know for sure.
However, a dying, low battery can cause all sorts of sensor issues and even the ECU to generate errors. So stuff while it was dying could come up. Those should be easily cleared, and once cleared, gone. i had tons of these years ago when my Audi battery dies so slowly that the car started, but often ran poorly. How that worked, given that the starting drain i huge, i dont know.
Since your codes came back, i am perplexed. Might water have contributed to both the issues and the dead battery? I'd now look for a 3rd cause that is the root of both.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
However, a dying, low battery can cause all sorts of sensor issues and even the ECU to generate errors. So stuff while it was dying could come up. Those should be easily cleared, and once cleared, gone. i had tons of these years ago when my Audi battery dies so slowly that the car started, but often ran poorly. How that worked, given that the starting drain i huge, i dont know.
Since your codes came back, i am perplexed. Might water have contributed to both the issues and the dead battery? I'd now look for a 3rd cause that is the root of both.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
| pretty much totally dead battery Bobtesa - 9 years ago |
I left the running lights on, then went on vacation. Brilliant, I know. So, the battery was stone cold dead. The trickle charger was attached, but I can't blame it for not working through this problem on a 6 year old battery. So, it could be that the battery was so dead it caused additional problems. If that is it, what should I or the tech as a fix?
| There can be a few codes/warning lights on after swapping out a dead battery.... MarcW - 9 years ago |
One in particular is something related to PSM. The steering wheel center is lost, but just driving the car should make this error/warning go away. If one is quick swapping batteries this may not even appear.
To have a bunch of codes popping up though is not what I'd expect to see from just a simple dead battery swap, unless perchance you left the ignition on when you changed the battery? If you did that's not good.
The e-Gas needs to be recalibrated. How to do this is covered in the owners manual. For my car during this process do not touch the gas pedal. Turn the ignition key to the on position. Leave the ignition in the on position for 60 seconds. Turn the ignition off and wait 10 seconds. Done.
The door window might benefit from a window limit reset. Well, I doubt it but you can try it. Using the lower button lower the window. Then using the raise button bring the window all the way up and continue to hold the raise button down for IIRC 5 seconds. Done. Repeat for the other window.
The window dropping could be from something else. Any chance water is in the cabin? Check under the seats. The security system is under one of the seats and if it gets damp or worse...Check the body water drains that they are not blocked.
Check the doors for any signs of dampness. Give the doors a shake listening for any water sloshing. A door membrane can fail and allow water to collect in the door. The symptoms start out with odd door lock or window behavior but if left untreated can spread to seemingly other unrelated areas of the car.
Be sure the battery cabling is secure and check the cabling at where it bolts to the body or wherever it is located.
Last but not least you might want to post all the codes.
I suspect one or two will help point to the main area of concern.
To have a bunch of codes popping up though is not what I'd expect to see from just a simple dead battery swap, unless perchance you left the ignition on when you changed the battery? If you did that's not good.
The e-Gas needs to be recalibrated. How to do this is covered in the owners manual. For my car during this process do not touch the gas pedal. Turn the ignition key to the on position. Leave the ignition in the on position for 60 seconds. Turn the ignition off and wait 10 seconds. Done.
The door window might benefit from a window limit reset. Well, I doubt it but you can try it. Using the lower button lower the window. Then using the raise button bring the window all the way up and continue to hold the raise button down for IIRC 5 seconds. Done. Repeat for the other window.
The window dropping could be from something else. Any chance water is in the cabin? Check under the seats. The security system is under one of the seats and if it gets damp or worse...Check the body water drains that they are not blocked.
Check the doors for any signs of dampness. Give the doors a shake listening for any water sloshing. A door membrane can fail and allow water to collect in the door. The symptoms start out with odd door lock or window behavior but if left untreated can spread to seemingly other unrelated areas of the car.
Be sure the battery cabling is secure and check the cabling at where it bolts to the body or wherever it is located.
Last but not least you might want to post all the codes.
I suspect one or two will help point to the main area of concern.
| No water, code list Bobtesa - 9 years ago |
I doubt I have a water problem. It is not a daily driver and not driven in the rain (although I may have been caught once or twice in the 5 years I have owned it). I check the drains regularly, and when I clean the car I usually clean under the seats and have not seen any sign of water.
I'll list the codes below, but as I said, the car and all it's components run and work fine. e-gas is fine and so is the a/c even though an a/c code is listed.
Codes with a brief description the tech wrote:
Gateway
c112 CAN
c121 rear control
c122 driver door
c123 passenger door
c129 TPMS
c130 steering wheel electronics
c132 a/c (works fine)
c136 ANS control
PAS
800s Terminal S
8001 Power supply
POSIP
c152 PSM
PSM steering angle sensor
Rear
8001 terminal 30
Vehicle electrical system
c140 instrument cluster
8039 filler cap actuation
(and some repeats of the c codes)
I don't know what this tells anyone, but to me it seems there is a more general issue than any particular code as nothing is wrong with the things that are coded, and it is odd that all these codes came up at the same time after the battery died, but the car was totally fine, no codes prior to that.
I'll list the codes below, but as I said, the car and all it's components run and work fine. e-gas is fine and so is the a/c even though an a/c code is listed.
Codes with a brief description the tech wrote:
Gateway
c112 CAN
c121 rear control
c122 driver door
c123 passenger door
c129 TPMS
c130 steering wheel electronics
c132 a/c (works fine)
c136 ANS control
PAS
800s Terminal S
8001 Power supply
POSIP
c152 PSM
PSM steering angle sensor
Rear
8001 terminal 30
Vehicle electrical system
c140 instrument cluster
8039 filler cap actuation
(and some repeats of the c codes)
I don't know what this tells anyone, but to me it seems there is a more general issue than any particular code as nothing is wrong with the things that are coded, and it is odd that all these codes came up at the same time after the battery died, but the car was totally fine, no codes prior to that.
| That's quite a list. And quite a variety... MarcW - 9 years ago |
Many more codes and from areas I would not expect to arise from a simple battery swap.
While the area under the seats is dry still you must check the doors for any signs of dampness/presence of water. While the car doesn't get driven in the rain I'm sure it gets washed and water is water, whether it comes from rain or from the end of the hose.
You can try Mixster's suggestion. Follow the guidelines for disconnecting the battery. Turn off all electrical loads. Remove the key from the ignition. No need to leave the battery disconnected for very long though. You can "hurry" the process by once you have the battery disconnected depressing the brake pedal. This will of course try to activate the brake lights and in doing so will remove any residual electrical power from the car. There is enough that when I changed my 996's battery a few months back, none of the expected error codes appeared. I was efficient with my battery swap actions but not trying to break any speed records.
I do not think the battery disconnect will help -- as the codes seem too many to have arisen from a battery swap --- but I wouldn't mind being wrong.
If the battery disconnect doesn't help you might want to expose the DME and inspect it for any signs of water. While the cabin floor is the common location for water to collect if water was getting in from just a bad body weather stripping seal and happened to be at the DME this could account for the codes. Same goes for the possibility of water leaking in past a defective windshield seal. If the windshield is leaking this can put water into the dash and it is full of electrical wiring.
The alternator might be to blame. If it is not putting out enough power while the battery will keep the engine running -- at least for a while -- there is not enough electrical power to power the accessories, and electrical devices in the car, which could explain the door control errors, A/C errors, and so on.
The alternator is quite expensive though and I'd like to have some high degree of confidence it was at fault before having it replaced. I'm not sure how this would be done in the shop.
Last but not least, I have to ask: Any mice/rodent sign in the car?
While the area under the seats is dry still you must check the doors for any signs of dampness/presence of water. While the car doesn't get driven in the rain I'm sure it gets washed and water is water, whether it comes from rain or from the end of the hose.
You can try Mixster's suggestion. Follow the guidelines for disconnecting the battery. Turn off all electrical loads. Remove the key from the ignition. No need to leave the battery disconnected for very long though. You can "hurry" the process by once you have the battery disconnected depressing the brake pedal. This will of course try to activate the brake lights and in doing so will remove any residual electrical power from the car. There is enough that when I changed my 996's battery a few months back, none of the expected error codes appeared. I was efficient with my battery swap actions but not trying to break any speed records.
I do not think the battery disconnect will help -- as the codes seem too many to have arisen from a battery swap --- but I wouldn't mind being wrong.
If the battery disconnect doesn't help you might want to expose the DME and inspect it for any signs of water. While the cabin floor is the common location for water to collect if water was getting in from just a bad body weather stripping seal and happened to be at the DME this could account for the codes. Same goes for the possibility of water leaking in past a defective windshield seal. If the windshield is leaking this can put water into the dash and it is full of electrical wiring.
The alternator might be to blame. If it is not putting out enough power while the battery will keep the engine running -- at least for a while -- there is not enough electrical power to power the accessories, and electrical devices in the car, which could explain the door control errors, A/C errors, and so on.
The alternator is quite expensive though and I'd like to have some high degree of confidence it was at fault before having it replaced. I'm not sure how this would be done in the shop.
Last but not least, I have to ask: Any mice/rodent sign in the car?
| Re: Battery replacement, check engine lights, code reset, etc. Any experience and advice with this? Bobtesa - 9 years ago |
No mice or rodents in the car, although I think a spider was living there. Haven't seen him for awhile, maybe he got motion sick and left.
I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow. When I get back I'll try the battery disconnect
The tech mentioned the alternator. I imaging there is a way to test it in the shop.
Keep in mind, none to this existed until the battery died. It seems too much of a coincidence for it not to be related somehow. That's why I discount water and mice, in favor of a car component gremlin.
I may not be able to get it in the shop for a few weeks, but when I do and learn what the problem is, I'll repost.
Thanks for the advice.
I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow. When I get back I'll try the battery disconnect
The tech mentioned the alternator. I imaging there is a way to test it in the shop.
Keep in mind, none to this existed until the battery died. It seems too much of a coincidence for it not to be related somehow. That's why I discount water and mice, in favor of a car component gremlin.
I may not be able to get it in the shop for a few weeks, but when I do and learn what the problem is, I'll repost.
Thanks for the advice.
| Up to you if you want to try the battery disconnect thing. I have no real problem with it as long... MarcW - 9 years ago |
Quote
Bobtesa
No mice or rodents in the car, although I think a spider was living there. Haven't seen him for awhile, maybe he got motion sick and left.
I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow. When I get back I'll try the battery disconnect
The tech mentioned the alternator. I imaging there is a way to test it in the shop.
Keep in mind, none to this existed until the battery died. It seems too much of a coincidence for it not to be related somehow. That's why I discount water and mice, in favor of a car component gremlin.
I may not be able to get it in the shop for a few weeks, but when I do and learn what the problem is, I'll repost.
Thanks for the advice.
as you keep in mind how important it is to do properly.
I'm sure there is a way to test the alternator output. I don't have a problem with that being the problem, I would just want a high degree of confidence, more than what sounded like a tech's off the cuff (though admittedly experienced cuff...) diagnosis.
Please when you get back and have this resolved follow up with an update. In the meantime, have a nice vacation.
Oh spiders... early on in my Boxster's ownership I parked the car at work with the top down. This happened to be when some breed of spider was migrating or leaving the nest or something. They used spider webbing as some kind of parachute or wind foil to catch the wind and drift with wind. After work the interior of the car has some of these web things which I removed. But not too long after little light brown colored, almost golden, spiders starting showing up. I removed or smashed these over time and then all was quiet for a long while. Then even similar colored but smaller spiders started showing up. Babies I guess. Anyhow, it has been sometime, years now, and no more spiders. But I never leave the car parked with the top down.
| What is "properly" (or is this a 981?)? grant - 9 years ago |
On older cars it's pretty much disconnect ground strap.
yes, one will deal with re-calibrations of various electrics, but no big deal.
Something i'm missing?
Like Marc, I'm also not convinced about the alternator. The battery died for good reason - and if the alternator could not keep up, it would be dying again.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2014 04:30PM by grant. (view changes)
yes, one will deal with re-calibrations of various electrics, but no big deal.
Something i'm missing?
Like Marc, I'm also not convinced about the alternator. The battery died for good reason - and if the alternator could not keep up, it would be dying again.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2014 04:30PM by grant. (view changes)
| While a battery disconnect is pretty much a disconnect the ground strap operation... MarcW - 9 years ago |
there are various ways to screw this up which is why I said "properly". The idea was to induce the OP to consult the owners manual for any cautions about disconnecting the battery.
While you, the OP and I would never do this someone could for instance on purpose or inadvertently leave the ignition on. The battery disconnect/reconnect could then damage the DME or some other sensitive electrical controller in the car.
While you, the OP and I would never do this someone could for instance on purpose or inadvertently leave the ignition on. The battery disconnect/reconnect could then damage the DME or some other sensitive electrical controller in the car.
| battery disconnect with key in or ignition on Bobtesa - 9 years ago |
I had not heard of this and did not know it, but apparently disconnecting the battery with the ignition on (or maybe even with the key in the ignition) can be harmful as you wrote. My tech mentioned that too. I didn't have the key in the ignition, so that didn't cause my problem, but it's good to know not to do that. I do know that simply having the key in the ignition in the off position draws on the battery, so I never leave it there. I can't imagine why anyone would disconnect a battery with the key in the on position.
| Oh, i have doen some bone-headed things grant - 9 years ago |
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