Also, Vertex

It is on the passenger side, external CV joint. It looks like the boot was mounted a little skewed from the factory which created stress. It ripped at some point recently.

There is greas all over the inside circumference of the wheel. The good news is that it looks clean with debris on it. So it must not have happened too long ago.

So now how to fix. I read Pedro's instructions. I read the Pelican site. The job doesn't look TOO bad?

But I would typically replace the whole CV joints and all - just to be safe. But the Cost is almost $900 just for the part. And just for one side. There seem to be other options on Amazon and ebay, but of what quality?

I have decisions to make.

I believe it requires removing the axle, but that is not a hard job. Should be very doable for you, and if you get into issues, just take the axle down to a mechanic and have him complete the install and then return home and re-install the axle.

Steve
Guards Red 1999
I'm not a race car driver, but I play one in 2nd and 3rd gear

It worked out OK. But then again, it was a $200 car. In my Saab and my wife's Ford, it was WAY easier to replace the whole assembly. Generally, I prefer to know that there is no grit etc in the bearing. It would be the worst thing to do this job twice.

Lots of work but about $30 in parts. The key is to ensure that no dirt made its way into the CV joint to begin the downward spiral, which accelerates.

In any event, you should clean out all the old grease, especially if you believe there may be any dirt embedded in it. Use a parts washer if need-be.

You will want to buy a specialty tool to crimp the clamps. Buy a couple just in case you get one "wrong". I find the cleanest way to get the old clamps off is with a dremel and a cutting wheel.

The difficulty in this job, aside form the incredible mess of that grease, is getting the shaft out. As i recall, you must remove the ball-joint on the wish-bone control arm. A ball joint tool (HFT works well) is often needed.

Another trouble spot is holding the ball joint shaft from turning when you loosen the nut. Yes, you can counter-hold with an allen key ( and a 1/4" open end wrench on that). However, i found a far better method. Get a bottle or other jack, and jack the ball joint up as you remove the nut. This forces the conical joint into the hub/wheel bearing carrier and friction does the job for you. No fuss, no muss.

In the future,check your CV boots every so often - for better or worse i am under mine for pre-tech inspection 10 times a year. When you see cracks begin to form, watch all the more closely. S models' joints are at a more extreme angle and base, and therefore fail more often. 3.4L cars are worse still.

I think the chance that you need a new axle is small. But check and get any possible trace of grit out.

Buy extra grease too.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Quote
JMstamford,ct
It is on the passenger side, external CV joint. It looks like the boot was mounted a little skewed from the factory which created stress. It ripped at some point recently.

There is greas all over the inside circumference of the wheel. The good news is that it looks clean with debris on it. So it must not have happened too long ago.

So now how to fix. I read Pedro's instructions. I read the Pelican site. The job doesn't look TOO bad?

But I would typically replace the whole CV joints and all - just to be safe. But the Cost is almost $900 just for the part. And just for one side. There seem to be other options on Amazon and ebay, but of what quality?

I have decisions to make.

No grease was appearing but the tech reported both boots were past it and could fail at any time. With over 250K miles on these and being original I ok'd replacing them. I wanted to just replace the shafts thus getting new CV bearings and the works. Tech said that that was an expensive way to go. Sure enough a quote on the new shafts came to $900/each -- probably higher now -- and then there was labor on top of that. There was some mention IIRC about some aftermarket bearing or even shaft options but I never explored these any.

The tech told me that the shafts/bearings seldom go bad -- as long as the boots remain intact -- and he recommended disassembly and cleaning and inspection and if no signs of trouble found repacking the old but still serviceable bearings with grease and with new boots reusing the old hardware.

This was less expensive than outright replacement but I can't recall by how much.

So I gave him the go-ahead.

I can't remember at what miles exactly this was done -- I have the paperwork filed away -- but with at least 20K miles on the repacked CV bearings (and maybe closer to 30K miles, the car how has 283K miles on its odometer) the original CV's with a grease repack are just fine.

Whether you have this done or do it yourself, as long as the bearings are free of contamination and after a thorough cleaning pass an inspection -- you may have to farm this out to someone who knows where and what to look for -- you could just reuse with old hardware. It probably has a hundred thousand or more miles left of service life.

If the bearings do not get dirt in them they never fail.

If the bearings do get dirt in them, or run dry, they fail rapidly.

Just check for dirt and either replace or re-pack.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

How can you really determine if there is contamination? If the parts were $200 like on my Saab, I just replace with new. At $900 that calculus changes right away.

Plus, I don't want to get into the job and then get stuck half done. In addition, I do not want to do the job twice. I know - for certain, that If I replace the whole assembly, I am good for a long while. I am certain I can do the work. I have done the job at least three times before on other cars. I am also pretty comfortable that I can replace the boot correctly. I am not certain that I will be able to ID contamination 100%. As one of you said, it might be worthwhile to have the shaft examined by someone who knows what they are looking at.

So, perhaps I should have been clearer.
1) just send the job out?
2) do the job myself and replace entire assembly?
3) do the job myself and just clean, re-grease, reboot and pray?
4) some combination of above?


BTW - just called a local guy - one I have never used, but who has a decent rep.... He quoted $300 to fix.
At that price --- I am lean heavily toward sending it there.

That said, I HATE, HATE, HATE, HATE letting anyone work on my car. Everytime, something bad happens.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2014 10:43AM by JMstamford,ct. (view changes)

but the key is to look and see - how much grease got out? How long has it been open? Is there grit in the grease? Does it have any symptoms of failure?

As to getting half way through - i don't think that will happen. Its messy. Its slow. But its not that complex.

Travelling on business this week, but feel free to call me Friday if you like - email me for info.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I was faced with the same questions recently in terms of replacing boots, CV joints etc... After adding up the individual parts prices and the time involved to rebuild, I decided to replace both half axles. I purchased them from Suncoast (best deal I found out there, ~$800 each I have an '01 base) and my friend has a lift in his garage we replaced both in less than 2 hours each. I still have the old one and my at some point look at them and rebuild them as spares, but there's no rush on that. The job itself was really very easy.

-Eric

They have boots, boot kits, and joint replacement kits, all for waaaaay less than what you're saying, e.g.

Full joint replacement kit (including new bolts, boot, joint, etc.) is $81.59
Boot replacement kit (including boot, clamps, flange plate) is $9.53



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2014 03:16PM by Boxsterra. (view changes)

has rebuilt complete halfshafts (including both bearings) for $150, new ones for twice that.

I spoke to Pelican today. They said that '00 shafts are not serviceable. You can replace the boots or the the interior CV's If the exterior is bad, you must replace the whole thing. I can replace the boots with ancillaries for appx $30.00. The issue is whether there was contamination. He said, basically just do it, it is not too likely contaminated. If you get in there and see problems, you can get the replacement shaft.

This stuck me as pretty odd, but I continue my research.

If Vertex is a reliable product, and the cost is anywhere near your quoted cost, that is definitely a plan.

I knew there was experience to be had here.

A quick search of the boards shows an awful lot of criticism for Vertex rebuilt products. The consensus is that their prices are VERY cheap and that you get what you pay for. Others say, they are fine so long as you are willing to return bad work. They DO apparently stand by their warranty, but that is because they know how they put the stuff together.

There were no positive reviews. Bottom line, I am not that hard up that I want to risk getting a worse part than I already have. If they are charging that little, I bet they are just swapping boots and repacking the bearings. I can do that - and I KNOW what I have.

They definitely have more sophisticated machinery and tooling. I would shoot them email and ask what they're actually doing. They've always been quick to respond to me.

There is OEM. Good.
There is raxles.com. Good as OEM.
There is everyone else. Risky crap. But some are good.

I was unaware that rebuilts were availabel for 986s since the inner joint is integral to the half shaft. Good news

G

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

That's strange since a lot of places sell it separately, including Porsche. And it's listed as a separate part on the parts diagram.

The Pelican Parts replacement instructions say "The CV joint is held onto the axle by a circlip"

Source: [www.pelicanparts.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2014 01:44PM by Boxsterra. (view changes)

1 main shaft with inner joint
2 outer joint

That's why raxles.com does not sell rebuilt ones, or so they told me.

Do i maybe have it backwards? I don't think so, i'm fairly sure that i did the outer and pulled the circlip and had it in my hand, whcih means the outer is removable.

Yet a fast look at pelican shows an inner joint (btu no outer) for sale....odd.

Educate me. There is an issue here preventing many rebuilders. Also meant i could not replace my damaged 986 half-shaft (good CVs)

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2014 02:02PM by grant. (view changes)

The inner is serviceable. The outer is not.

In any event, its not THAT bad to de-grease and re-pack it Ugly, messy, but do-able, And you know the quality.

Have extra grease. Have a good clamp tool. Have lots of newspaper.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

... the majority of folks here that have said that it's very unlikely to have a CVJ contaminated as long as there grease in it.
The reason is that a rotating mass, such as a half-shaft tends to shed, not attract.
It's very simple to test for contamination.
Once out move the joint and feel for excessive play. Also, pull a sample of the grease and fun through your fingers.
If it feels like grease the joint is fine. If it feels gritty it's done.
I have probably worked on 60 or more Porsches' half-axles.
I've only had one where the CVJ was damaged by having a torn boot and it was completely dry.
The boot had torn over a year before the owner brought it in.
If a CVJ is still shedding grease, most likely it's still in good condition.
Happy Boxsteting
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

In other cars the half shaft assembly is around $ 150 all in. One time, it was around $75. Both costs after core return...

So if I can get new parts for so little and if I know my old shaft is getting rebuilt and recycled so to speak, why would I waste time and effort rebuilding.

Now with the present car... The cost for new is prohibitive. The reputation of the rebuilder is questionable. The time, mess and random nonsense to do the job is a bit much and I will have no guarantee that the CV is not toasty if not already toasted.

I am heavily leaning toward rebuilding the shaft myself. But I don't have access to a parts washer. That means cleaning all the old grease out with gas or mineral spirits or brake clean or something. That means a huge mess. Because the exterior CV is not serviceable, it means I have to do BOTH the inner and the outer. double the mess, double the fun.

Several professionals have told me that this job is by far their least favorite thing to do. I suspect I will hate it too.

So I look for options. So far, by far, the best option is to rebuild myself. I was encouraged for 20 minutes about vertex, but the net criticism has warned me off of them. I know the net compounds criticism vs. support, but I didn't see anything favorable about them. That doesn't mean nothing favorable exists, just that I don't want to find out the hard way. I would rather do the job myslef and run the seemingly minor risk of a re-do. But I will happily buy a half shaft if a known, supplier exists at a reasonable price.

... it's not rebuilding; it's repacking.
These CVJs are very tough and unless there's a heavy incursion of grit into the grease and or they run dry and overheat, they will be fine to repack.
You don't have to remove every drop of old grease.
Again, because they are rotating shafts they tend to shed grease out and not allow dirt in.
Just pull it, and do the fingertip test with the grease that's left inside.
I can almost guarantee you that if there's any quantity of grease it will be clean unless you drive in the desert or some other very dusty place.
you don't need to use solvent just a lot of paper towels. If there's a bit of grease left, it's still grease, no big deal.
Repack with the new grease supplied in the kit (don't overpack it either), put on the new boot and be done with it.
It's not rocket science and it's just a bit dirty and requires a couple of rolls of paper towels but its a rewarding job that'll save you a bunch of money over sourcing it out.
here are my step-by-step instructions: [pedrosgarage.com]
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

but you knew that already.

It is fair to say that you have more faith than I do about the possible contamination of the CV joint by a ripped boot. BTW -you point re: repacking vs rebuilding is clearly correct. To the extent my comment was confusing, I stand corrected.

Am I paranoid? perhaps. But if I am going to take apart the assembly, why would I not remove all the grease and by extension any possible contamination prior to repacking?

Let's assume that 80% of the time, there is no contamination and that if there WAS some minor contamination, it would not cause problems for years. Why not increase the odds if you are in there already? I don't get the point of packing new grease on a CV joint which is other than fully clean. But that is me. It might be ok as a matter of engineering, but I do not trust it.

paranoia? OK, I can live with that. Doing the job twice will annoy me to no end.

BTW thanks for the torque settings. It will save me time later. On the main nut, I think my wrench only goes to 300 ft/lbs I plan to get it there then break out the breaker bar to estimate the last 40lbs. Hardly scientific, but I assume there is some margin for error???

If not, I will go in search of...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2014 05:52PM by JMstamford,ct. (view changes)

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Called to double check, they claim they only carry CV shafts for the 3.2 liter S model. Other sites suggest the 2.7 and 3.2 are the same. So, "scratch head" does anyone know for sure?

[www.ebay.com]

It does seem too good to be true, but who knows. They are represented as new, but ....

As far as I know, removal and replacement of the inner CV joint and boot is cheap and fairly easy.

As I mentioned above you can get the replacement kit for < $90

Here are the replacement instructions:
[www.pelicanparts.com]

That one is not serviceable. If it was the inner, this is an easy conversation.

Never mind most of what I said.

The outer bearing is not servicable, only the boot can be replaced.
But you cannot do the outer without also doing the inner.

In order to replace the outer boot, one must remove the inner CV joint entirely. That leaves the bare axle shaft over which the boot can pass.

The bottom line is that to replace the outer, you need to open both joints. If you are opening both, you replace both boots.

If replacing both boots, I will probably clean and repack both bearings. (I guess you could skip cleaning the inner bearing if you were CERTAIN that no sand or grit got in it when you removed the old boot. But CAN you be certain?) Besides the inner bearing is WAY easier to clean. The outer is the bear. Also why rely on 15 year old grease if you don't have to?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
999-084-641-01-M100 $11.25 1 $11.25
Wheel Hub Nut (22 X 1.5 mm, Front/Rear, Left or Right) Brand:
Genuine Porsche (2000 Porsche Boxster Base Convertible)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
928-332-257-01-M395 $1.00 2 $2.00
Axle Boot Clamp (34 mm), 911 (1985-98), 928 (1982-95), 911 Turbo
(1991-94), 944S2/Turbo, 996 (1999-02), 996 Turbo rear (2001-05),
Boxster (1997-02), Boxster S (2000-04)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
928-332-293-02-M60 $5.00 2 $10.00
Axle Boot (Rear Left Inner, Left or Right Rear Outer Rear Right
Inner,) Brand: GKN Loebro Note: Also use (1) 928 332 257 01 clamp,
(1) 911 332 257 00 clamp, for each boot. (2000 Porsche Boxster Base
Convertible)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
911-332-257-00-M395 $1.50 2 $3.00
Axle Boot Clamp (73 mm, Rear Inner Rear Outer) Brand: Oetker (2000
Porsche Boxster Base Convertible)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

get a coupel extra clamps. You might screw one up adn they are one-time only.

Grease is hard to come by locally. Pelican sells it in a big tube for $12 or so.

I didn't see the actual boots on your list

Do you have the 32mm (?) socket?

Do you have the ball joint tool?

I saw what Pedro said about leaving the grease intact. I mostly agree - but have the followign thoughts:

1. make sure you remove at least the outer layer of grease that mgiht contain grit or contamination
2. grease breaks down over time - the more you cna easily get out the better. We have track rats that actually melt the grease after a few hard trackl events. Not saying you do anythign like that (these are the crazy-hard drivers), but it points out that some break-down occurs

Yea, I left a lot in mine too :-) But my boots were intact. I do it as preventative maint when possible.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

You can also lower part of the exhaust system rather than take apart the suspension to get the axle out.

Most recently on the Saab.

The bolt is the same size so I have an impact socket all ready --- and here I thought I was wasting $20 (or whatever).

I rented the ball joint tool last time. I forget whether it was autozone or napa, but that will be tonight's project.

Pelican had the grease backordered. I would have had to wait until next week. There are several very good auto stores locally, so I will hold my breath. If not available, then I have lost nothing.

The boots, clams and bolt arrived last night. (and the boots were #3 on the parts list-above).