Boxster going on the flat bed… |  |  |
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| Boxster going on the flat bed… MarcW - 9 years ago |
Yep, the Boxster was going on the flat bed tow truck. I wonder why?….
Try to guess.
You want a hint? Ok, it happened at 80K miles, then again at approx. 180K miles, and now with 285K miles it happened again.
Give up?
AOS!
Driving on Las Positas Blvd just at Hopyard -- in Pleasanton CA -- on the way to visit my Mom and Dad. Looked in the rear view mirror and saw the smoke just billowing out. Thought the car was fire. Scanned the dash. No warning lights or warning messages.
Engine sounded fine. Engine has been fine, running like a top. No check engine light. No hesitation. No goofy idle behavior. Not even any smoke upon startup. The only thing I didn't "check" was I haven't tried to remove the oil filler tube cap. Save for adding sometimes a quart of oil between oil changes I never touch that thing.
Took off and the car behind me disappeared in the smoke. Turned onto Parkside but decided I had better try to limp the car to the dealer so turned around. Made it to Las Positas Blvd and Santa Rita Road when I got caught at a light. The smoking had stopped and it wasn't smoking at the light but when I took off the smoke just billowed out something fierce. Decided not to risk it so pulled into a Walmart grocery store parking lot and called AAA for a tow. Tow truck operator showed up PDQ and in no time we were dropping the car off at the dealer. I put it in its reserved space….
Helped SM lock up and he gave me a ride home in the car pictured below.
So, tomorrow the Boxster goes under the knife to get a new AOS and while it is on the lift an oil/filter service too. This is due and I had an appointment to get this done later this week anyhow.
BTW, the engine will be getting its 4th AOS.
Try to guess.
You want a hint? Ok, it happened at 80K miles, then again at approx. 180K miles, and now with 285K miles it happened again.
Give up?
AOS!
Driving on Las Positas Blvd just at Hopyard -- in Pleasanton CA -- on the way to visit my Mom and Dad. Looked in the rear view mirror and saw the smoke just billowing out. Thought the car was fire. Scanned the dash. No warning lights or warning messages.
Engine sounded fine. Engine has been fine, running like a top. No check engine light. No hesitation. No goofy idle behavior. Not even any smoke upon startup. The only thing I didn't "check" was I haven't tried to remove the oil filler tube cap. Save for adding sometimes a quart of oil between oil changes I never touch that thing.
Took off and the car behind me disappeared in the smoke. Turned onto Parkside but decided I had better try to limp the car to the dealer so turned around. Made it to Las Positas Blvd and Santa Rita Road when I got caught at a light. The smoking had stopped and it wasn't smoking at the light but when I took off the smoke just billowed out something fierce. Decided not to risk it so pulled into a Walmart grocery store parking lot and called AAA for a tow. Tow truck operator showed up PDQ and in no time we were dropping the car off at the dealer. I put it in its reserved space….
Helped SM lock up and he gave me a ride home in the car pictured below.
So, tomorrow the Boxster goes under the knife to get a new AOS and while it is on the lift an oil/filter service too. This is due and I had an appointment to get this done later this week anyhow.
BTW, the engine will be getting its 4th AOS.
| What did I tell you?... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - 9 years ago |
... Cheap Porsche plastic 
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
while the 2 replacement AOS's each lasted around 100K miles. 
In a more serious vein not sure how this device could be improved. The membrane fails is what I gathered from inspecting the one bad one I cut apart. I didn't get to cut apart the 1st one, the factory original AOS.
I will ask this latest AOS be returned to me but I have no place to cut it apart.
It looks like at least this is the way I remember it that the membrane develops a crack/split from fatigue due to flexing. The flexing appears to be asymmetrical. That is instead of the membrane bowing inwards or outwards in a symmetrical fashion, with the membrane assuming the shape of a shallow bowl it looks like the membrane acquires some twist or kink -- as best as I can describe it -- that causes the membrane to excessively flex. Over time this results in the membrane failing.
While it is a pain to deal with at 100K miles I guess that's not too bad. Sure, I wish the thing was lifetime, but of all the possible problems the engine could have developed this ain't the worse, to state the obvious.
In a more serious vein not sure how this device could be improved. The membrane fails is what I gathered from inspecting the one bad one I cut apart. I didn't get to cut apart the 1st one, the factory original AOS.
I will ask this latest AOS be returned to me but I have no place to cut it apart.
It looks like at least this is the way I remember it that the membrane develops a crack/split from fatigue due to flexing. The flexing appears to be asymmetrical. That is instead of the membrane bowing inwards or outwards in a symmetrical fashion, with the membrane assuming the shape of a shallow bowl it looks like the membrane acquires some twist or kink -- as best as I can describe it -- that causes the membrane to excessively flex. Over time this results in the membrane failing.
While it is a pain to deal with at 100K miles I guess that's not too bad. Sure, I wish the thing was lifetime, but of all the possible problems the engine could have developed this ain't the worse, to state the obvious.
| Update of sorts... MarcW - 9 years ago |
Stopped in at the dealer service department to sign the work order and started wondering about the plugs. SM started going through the work invoices: VariCam solenoid/actuator done at 238K miles; coolant tank (and radiator fan) done at 231K; fuel pump at 220K; and finally plugs at 183K. The previous AOS failed before this so my WAG the current AOS had around 100K miles on it is very much in the ballpark.
Ok, so the plugs have over 100K miles on them so I added new plugs (and coils) to the work order.
Still cheaper than buying a new car. Been researching a new Dodge Challenger R/T. 5.7l V8, 6-speed, 20" wheels and so on and it looks like I would be paying around $28K. Let's see…. $2K for the AOS and plugs and coils or $28K for the new car? Umm, I think I'll stay with the Boxster.
Ok, so the plugs have over 100K miles on them so I added new plugs (and coils) to the work order.
Still cheaper than buying a new car. Been researching a new Dodge Challenger R/T. 5.7l V8, 6-speed, 20" wheels and so on and it looks like I would be paying around $28K. Let's see…. $2K for the AOS and plugs and coils or $28K for the new car? Umm, I think I'll stay with the Boxster.
| Good choice Roger987 - 9 years ago |
| The GTO was a nice car. I planned on keeping it forever. But I couldn't get the car serviced…. MarcW - 9 years ago |
without a tech or lot monkey hotrodding the car. The 1st time the GM dealer tech that did the tranny fluid service took the car out on his lunch break and practiced his stop light drag race starts in the car.
The 2nd time the kid that moves cars around at the Pontiac dealer lot -- at the dealer where I bought the car -- was doing burnouts with the car behind the service area.
Decided I had had it with GM dealers and their lousy service so I traded the car in for a new Cayman S.
The 2nd time the kid that moves cars around at the Pontiac dealer lot -- at the dealer where I bought the car -- was doing burnouts with the car behind the service area.
Decided I had had it with GM dealers and their lousy service so I traded the car in for a new Cayman S.
| How did you catch them? JM-Stamford,CT - 9 years ago |
a very very hot clutch.
The smell was so strong, I got out the car and opened the hood just to have a look. Then back in the cabin I noticed the fuel level was in the red and the miles left was done to near 0 miles.
The miles left was around 60 mlles when I dropped the car off.
Then I checked the miles in and miles out numbers on the work receipt and spotted a 20 mile difference. The car had apparently been driven 20 miles when in for a simple fluid change and with no drivability complaint.
Furious about how my car had been treated I went in and confronted -- in a calm manner -- the service writer. Long story short he blew me off, or tried to, fed me various lies, sent me to see other people in the dealership who played no role in customer service, trying to just get me to go away.
It did come out the SW made a transcription error and the actual distance the was driven was just 2 miles.
Seething with anger the treatment my car had received and then how I was treated after I reported this treatment I remembered I had a CarChip in the OBD2 port and went home and downloaded the data and from studying the telemetry I managed to work out the route the tech took. I followed this to confirm the speed/RPM changes and what have you. At almost every stop sign I came upon two very black and wide and very recent strips of rubber on the pavement.
Long story short faced with a print out of this data and my threatening to take this to the police or someplace else (BAR would have been better maybe) he softened up some. We settled sort of by me getting a full refund of the service which I then took and spent at the Dublin CA Pontiac dealer to have the tranny/diff fluid renewed and the old fluid (just a few days old) inspected for any metal bits. None were found.
The 2nd time at the Dubln Pontiac dealer to have the car serviced after I got the car back I just downloaded the CarChip and saw from the telemetry what had gone on. I suspect I know who at the dealer did this. Some months before I had bought the car I was at a local gas station and spotted a nice black GTO with dealer tags on it getting fueled by some kid in a mechanic's overalls. After he finished he pulled out into the street and proceeded to do a long smokey burnout down the street.
Some time later and ready to buy a new GTO I was at the Dublin CA Pontiac dealer and on a raised platform right in the main lobby of the dealership was this black GTO and I could see it was all tricked out with every factory and dealer installed option under the sun. The MSRP was astronomical, too.
'course as soon as I stepped on the showroom floor the first thing the salesman did was steer me to this car and made a sales pitch. I declined. Had I know then what I learned later though I would have said something like "Gee I'd love to have that car but this is a car I saw a dealer employee abusing not too long ago and now I know where that car came from, no thanks. In fact fearing all new cars on your lot have been abused like this I no longer want to buy a car here, so I'll just go to the next Pontiac dealer over in the next town and buy a new car there."
Shudda. Cudda. Wudda.
Next time. Though I hope to God there is never another next time. Ever.
One reason why I use a Porsche dealer to service my cars. Porsche techs are restrained from driving a customer's car unless it is deemed necessary for diagnostics or confirming a problem has been properly addressed. Also, hotrodding around brings with it another risk. The SM said just one ticket could mean he could no longer drive dealer or customer cars and this would be the end of his employment.
Not too many months ago a shuttle driver had a wreck. Just a block or two from the group of dealers he drives for he hit a light pole and knocked it down. He walked back to the dealership with the news and was fired on the spot. I don't think the dealer GM even asked him how he was.
Given what has gone on before at the GM and Pontiac dealers if I ever catch a Porsche tech hotrodding in any of my cars I'm going straight to the GM and complain. I'll write letter to the BAR and complain. (The mention of the BAR one time to a body shop owner really got a reaction. He acted like I had brought the wrath of God down upon him.) And I'll tell the GM I will not only no longer consider that dealer suitable for servicing my cars and in fact no longer on my list to buy a new/used car.
You know I did the math and since that last incident with the GTO I spent over $110K on a new car and a used car purchase and not one car was a GM brand. Furthermore, I have spent uncounted thousands of dollars in servicing and repairs since this last incident happened back in early 2009, and not one dime have I spent at a GM dealership. Before I bought the GTO I toyed with buying a Corvette and I might have moved to a Corvette after I tired of the GTO, had I tired of the GTO.
Anyhow, I'm going to make it uncomfortably hot for that offending tech, if I can. I'm not going to put up with any abuse of my cars by a tech or any dealer employee I don't care what the brand the dealer sells/services.
The smell was so strong, I got out the car and opened the hood just to have a look. Then back in the cabin I noticed the fuel level was in the red and the miles left was done to near 0 miles.
The miles left was around 60 mlles when I dropped the car off.
Then I checked the miles in and miles out numbers on the work receipt and spotted a 20 mile difference. The car had apparently been driven 20 miles when in for a simple fluid change and with no drivability complaint.
Furious about how my car had been treated I went in and confronted -- in a calm manner -- the service writer. Long story short he blew me off, or tried to, fed me various lies, sent me to see other people in the dealership who played no role in customer service, trying to just get me to go away.
It did come out the SW made a transcription error and the actual distance the was driven was just 2 miles.
Seething with anger the treatment my car had received and then how I was treated after I reported this treatment I remembered I had a CarChip in the OBD2 port and went home and downloaded the data and from studying the telemetry I managed to work out the route the tech took. I followed this to confirm the speed/RPM changes and what have you. At almost every stop sign I came upon two very black and wide and very recent strips of rubber on the pavement.
Long story short faced with a print out of this data and my threatening to take this to the police or someplace else (BAR would have been better maybe) he softened up some. We settled sort of by me getting a full refund of the service which I then took and spent at the Dublin CA Pontiac dealer to have the tranny/diff fluid renewed and the old fluid (just a few days old) inspected for any metal bits. None were found.
The 2nd time at the Dubln Pontiac dealer to have the car serviced after I got the car back I just downloaded the CarChip and saw from the telemetry what had gone on. I suspect I know who at the dealer did this. Some months before I had bought the car I was at a local gas station and spotted a nice black GTO with dealer tags on it getting fueled by some kid in a mechanic's overalls. After he finished he pulled out into the street and proceeded to do a long smokey burnout down the street.
Some time later and ready to buy a new GTO I was at the Dublin CA Pontiac dealer and on a raised platform right in the main lobby of the dealership was this black GTO and I could see it was all tricked out with every factory and dealer installed option under the sun. The MSRP was astronomical, too.
'course as soon as I stepped on the showroom floor the first thing the salesman did was steer me to this car and made a sales pitch. I declined. Had I know then what I learned later though I would have said something like "Gee I'd love to have that car but this is a car I saw a dealer employee abusing not too long ago and now I know where that car came from, no thanks. In fact fearing all new cars on your lot have been abused like this I no longer want to buy a car here, so I'll just go to the next Pontiac dealer over in the next town and buy a new car there."
Shudda. Cudda. Wudda.
Next time. Though I hope to God there is never another next time. Ever.
One reason why I use a Porsche dealer to service my cars. Porsche techs are restrained from driving a customer's car unless it is deemed necessary for diagnostics or confirming a problem has been properly addressed. Also, hotrodding around brings with it another risk. The SM said just one ticket could mean he could no longer drive dealer or customer cars and this would be the end of his employment.
Not too many months ago a shuttle driver had a wreck. Just a block or two from the group of dealers he drives for he hit a light pole and knocked it down. He walked back to the dealership with the news and was fired on the spot. I don't think the dealer GM even asked him how he was.
Given what has gone on before at the GM and Pontiac dealers if I ever catch a Porsche tech hotrodding in any of my cars I'm going straight to the GM and complain. I'll write letter to the BAR and complain. (The mention of the BAR one time to a body shop owner really got a reaction. He acted like I had brought the wrath of God down upon him.) And I'll tell the GM I will not only no longer consider that dealer suitable for servicing my cars and in fact no longer on my list to buy a new/used car.
You know I did the math and since that last incident with the GTO I spent over $110K on a new car and a used car purchase and not one car was a GM brand. Furthermore, I have spent uncounted thousands of dollars in servicing and repairs since this last incident happened back in early 2009, and not one dime have I spent at a GM dealership. Before I bought the GTO I toyed with buying a Corvette and I might have moved to a Corvette after I tired of the GTO, had I tired of the GTO.
Anyhow, I'm going to make it uncomfortably hot for that offending tech, if I can. I'm not going to put up with any abuse of my cars by a tech or any dealer employee I don't care what the brand the dealer sells/services.
| Maybe a California thing SteveJ (2010 987 base, manual trans) - 9 years ago |
In addition to the Boxster, I have a 2008 Corvette coupe with the Z51 performance package and manual transmission. I've had no problems with dealer service. Not every Chevy dealer is qualified, to service the Corvette. I belong to a local Corvette club and there would certainly be immediate damage to a dealer's reputation if anything like occurred.
| Reality is its all int he individual dealer's management. Take MArc's experience grant - 9 years ago |
He sings the praises of his Porsche dealer, has a good rapport with the techs, and has a nightmare with the Pontiac dealer.
I recall when my audi dealer got rid of the (outstanding and customer focused) service manager and installed the co-owner's son.
Service went down, attitude went down, but from what i hear, margins on service -- for a while - went up ( less work for more money).
I never went back for any reason after a couple of bad experiences.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
I recall when my audi dealer got rid of the (outstanding and customer focused) service manager and installed the co-owner's son.
Service went down, attitude went down, but from what i hear, margins on service -- for a while - went up ( less work for more money).
I never went back for any reason after a couple of bad experiences.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
via video and engine/vehicle telemetry how the car is being used when this mode is enabled.
I doubt there are that many Corvette owners using valet services.
But I suspect every Corvette owner turns this mode on when he takes it to be serviced.
I take it as an admission that GM knows something is going on when its high performance cars are in for service.
Really it makes sense for GM to do this, for GM is on the hook if something happens. If the car breaks under warranty GM pays. If it breaks out of warranty the owner pays but then develops the impression the car is no good. GM loses business.
I have to point out based on my observation the GTO bought out the beast in some people. Not me. I liked the car, appreciated its performance and refinement (considering it was a GM (by way of Holden) product) and sometimes drove it rather aggressively -- I mean what good if a 6.0l V8 with 400hp if one is not going to use that power once in awhile. And the car would haul the mail. Not quite as fast as my 996 Turbo, but plenty fast.
Anyhow, not everyone was able to keep their beast under control. Not the GM tech, not the Pontiac "tech" (more like a lot monkey), and not even the salesman at a Porsche dealership and an owner of the Porsche dealership.
When I traded the GTO in for a new Cayman S the salesman took the keys to the GTO from me to move the car into the parking area that was located in a secure part of the dealer's properly. He started the engine and backed the car out and then gave it the whip as he tore off down the parking lot. I had to laugh.
Then a few days later I was in and the dealership owner (Micheal Stead) came up to me and commented on that GTO how it ran. Seems he had a test drive in the car too. Again I had to laugh a bit this time to myself.
I doubt there are that many Corvette owners using valet services.
But I suspect every Corvette owner turns this mode on when he takes it to be serviced.
I take it as an admission that GM knows something is going on when its high performance cars are in for service.
Really it makes sense for GM to do this, for GM is on the hook if something happens. If the car breaks under warranty GM pays. If it breaks out of warranty the owner pays but then develops the impression the car is no good. GM loses business.
I have to point out based on my observation the GTO bought out the beast in some people. Not me. I liked the car, appreciated its performance and refinement (considering it was a GM (by way of Holden) product) and sometimes drove it rather aggressively -- I mean what good if a 6.0l V8 with 400hp if one is not going to use that power once in awhile. And the car would haul the mail. Not quite as fast as my 996 Turbo, but plenty fast.
Anyhow, not everyone was able to keep their beast under control. Not the GM tech, not the Pontiac "tech" (more like a lot monkey), and not even the salesman at a Porsche dealership and an owner of the Porsche dealership.
When I traded the GTO in for a new Cayman S the salesman took the keys to the GTO from me to move the car into the parking area that was located in a secure part of the dealer's properly. He started the engine and backed the car out and then gave it the whip as he tore off down the parking lot. I had to laugh.
Then a few days later I was in and the dealership owner (Micheal Stead) came up to me and commented on that GTO how it ran. Seems he had a test drive in the car too. Again I had to laugh a bit this time to myself.
| Update on this...New AOS is on the bench... MarcW - 9 years ago |
The tech had a plastic pipe break.
Because the tech admitted to breaking it, the dealer is absorbing the cost of this tube although I told the SM that given the pipe was 12 years old and original that I would pay for it but my offer was declined.
The tube breaking though has delayed the car being finished today as the part had to be overnighted and should be in Tuesday. Just an hour or so ago the tech called me he found the cause of the suspected camshaft cover leak. Thankfully the camshaft cover appears oil tight. The leak is from the driver's side spark plug tubes.
Tech found these changing the plugs. After removing the plugs two tubes were wobbly/loose and when the tech removed them they just almost fell out. O-rings are in pieces. The other tube was stuck and the tech was concerned that it could break if he had to use force to remove it. He said this happens sometimes. He told me the apparently stuck tube didn't look like it was leaking but with all the mess he couldn't be sure.
I asked him how much are the tubes and he told me but I can't recall now but the cost was reasonable so I gave him the go-ahead. to remove the stuck one to replace the o-rings as I didn't want to leave one old tube and o-rings in to leak after paying to have the other 2 replaced.
Stopped in later to check on the progress and by this time the tech had gotten the 3rd tube out safe and in one piece.
Car should be finished tomorrow. In the meantime, actually the other day, Friday, the SM gave me the keys to a new 2014 Audi A6 to drive around to save wear and tear on my Turbo. The Audi is nice. Loaded with options. Some fancy kind of automatic. Not the CVT though. Plenty of pep. 3.0l engine. Roomy. 4 door and with a large trunk. Used the car to haul home some boxes of books I had stored nearby.
The leak wasn't that bad, just bad enough to put out enough oil to collect a nice even layer of dust that of course has turned black as it absorbs the oil. The oil doesn't leak enough to wash the dust (wet with oil of course) away.
The Audi is nice but it will be nice to get the Boxster back with the leak fixed and new plugs and a new AOS.
When I get the car back it may be time to point the car east and head out for a week or two on a road trip and to take care of some family business back east.
Because the tech admitted to breaking it, the dealer is absorbing the cost of this tube although I told the SM that given the pipe was 12 years old and original that I would pay for it but my offer was declined.
The tube breaking though has delayed the car being finished today as the part had to be overnighted and should be in Tuesday. Just an hour or so ago the tech called me he found the cause of the suspected camshaft cover leak. Thankfully the camshaft cover appears oil tight. The leak is from the driver's side spark plug tubes.
Tech found these changing the plugs. After removing the plugs two tubes were wobbly/loose and when the tech removed them they just almost fell out. O-rings are in pieces. The other tube was stuck and the tech was concerned that it could break if he had to use force to remove it. He said this happens sometimes. He told me the apparently stuck tube didn't look like it was leaking but with all the mess he couldn't be sure.
I asked him how much are the tubes and he told me but I can't recall now but the cost was reasonable so I gave him the go-ahead. to remove the stuck one to replace the o-rings as I didn't want to leave one old tube and o-rings in to leak after paying to have the other 2 replaced.
Stopped in later to check on the progress and by this time the tech had gotten the 3rd tube out safe and in one piece.
Car should be finished tomorrow. In the meantime, actually the other day, Friday, the SM gave me the keys to a new 2014 Audi A6 to drive around to save wear and tear on my Turbo. The Audi is nice. Loaded with options. Some fancy kind of automatic. Not the CVT though. Plenty of pep. 3.0l engine. Roomy. 4 door and with a large trunk. Used the car to haul home some boxes of books I had stored nearby.
The leak wasn't that bad, just bad enough to put out enough oil to collect a nice even layer of dust that of course has turned black as it absorbs the oil. The oil doesn't leak enough to wash the dust (wet with oil of course) away.
The Audi is nice but it will be nice to get the Boxster back with the leak fixed and new plugs and a new AOS.
When I get the car back it may be time to point the car east and head out for a week or two on a road trip and to take care of some family business back east.
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