Speaking of smooth steering inputs--a question for you Pedro |  |  |
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| Several laps of VIR grant - 9 years ago |
Folks,
Two videos are going up. The first is a nice, one-lap view with data overlaid. Unfortunately, i dont have data overlay for any fast laps - this is around 4 sec off my best times (which is an eternity). but its nice and clean, and gives a great view of the track.
The second video is ~ 5 laps from one of the final White run groups Sunday afternoon. Most of us left were die-hards i guess. Scotty, i need more power!
Truly i do.
The 3-day event was terrific. All days were cold-ish and windy, but Friday and Sunday were sunny, and Saturday, predicted to be a true wash-out, resulted in me running 1 session in very light rain, one in wet, and two in essentially dry, albeit cold and overcast conditions. To me, that's a freebie and a big win!
Good turn-out, lots of really high quality drivers in all groups, great parties, including a NNJR sponsored BBQ. indoors.
Trip home, arriving ~ 3:30am after rising at 6 for a full track day, was exhausting as usual.
One lap of VIR with Data overlay
Sveral faster laps of VIR without data, and better video
Enjoy!
-Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Two videos are going up. The first is a nice, one-lap view with data overlaid. Unfortunately, i dont have data overlay for any fast laps - this is around 4 sec off my best times (which is an eternity). but its nice and clean, and gives a great view of the track.
The second video is ~ 5 laps from one of the final White run groups Sunday afternoon. Most of us left were die-hards i guess. Scotty, i need more power!
Truly i do.
The 3-day event was terrific. All days were cold-ish and windy, but Friday and Sunday were sunny, and Saturday, predicted to be a true wash-out, resulted in me running 1 session in very light rain, one in wet, and two in essentially dry, albeit cold and overcast conditions. To me, that's a freebie and a big win!
Good turn-out, lots of really high quality drivers in all groups, great parties, including a NNJR sponsored BBQ. indoors.
Trip home, arriving ~ 3:30am after rising at 6 for a full track day, was exhausting as usual.
One lap of VIR with Data overlay
Sveral faster laps of VIR without data, and better video
Enjoy!
-Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Laz - 9 years ago |
| yes, but i should not have been in that situation. grant - 9 years ago |
Quote
grant
I'm more proud of the many you didn't detect - *that's* the way to catch them - early :-)
Actually, that turn is one that i like to brake late and get the car to rotate. Was not doing that those laps (focused on other things).
Grant
That turn (#4) is a bugger; you really have to slow the car to make the turn cleanly and get ready for the right-hander.
... is to come in hard and fast, brake hard, turn with rear-end light, rotate, go.
Another buddy asked me why i wasn't in fact slower and tighter so i could push harder on the way out ( 4b and on)
Sometimes it doesn't work. One of the reasons i was a bit wide on that the next few laps.
I try the same on Oak Tree but was concentrating on another issue that I'll share later.
This is what makes VIR amazing - connected turns.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Another buddy asked me why i wasn't in fact slower and tighter so i could push harder on the way out ( 4b and on)
Sometimes it doesn't work. One of the reasons i was a bit wide on that the next few laps.
I try the same on Oak Tree but was concentrating on another issue that I'll share later.
This is what makes VIR amazing - connected turns.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
MikenOH - 9 years ago |
Looks like your were around 2.29 in the white group runs?
I looked up the weather conditions for Sunday and I think it was around 40 in the AM; makes for a pretty brisk drive with those windows down
.
Questions:
What sort of camera were you using in the second video? That was very clear and free of the typical phone camera rolling shutter effects.
Did you have a data logger running during those runs? I use Race Render to merge my RaceChrono data from the phone with the Canon Elph video when I'm not using the phone for everything. A great program for $20 and easy to use.
How's the track when cold with the new pavement?
Also, did they grind down the the curbs in the S's? it didn't look like they were upseting the car much when you went over them. Last year I hit the second one on the left at full bore and it really jolted the car.
That ride home after a full day is a killer; last year I left at 3 and didn't get home till almost midnight
I looked up the weather conditions for Sunday and I think it was around 40 in the AM; makes for a pretty brisk drive with those windows down
.Questions:
What sort of camera were you using in the second video? That was very clear and free of the typical phone camera rolling shutter effects.
Did you have a data logger running during those runs? I use Race Render to merge my RaceChrono data from the phone with the Canon Elph video when I'm not using the phone for everything. A great program for $20 and easy to use.
How's the track when cold with the new pavement?
Also, did they grind down the the curbs in the S's? it didn't look like they were upseting the car much when you went over them. Last year I hit the second one on the left at full bore and it really jolted the car.
That ride home after a full day is a killer; last year I left at 3 and didn't get home till almost midnight
| Re: You're looking very smooth out there , Grant grant - 9 years ago |
Quote
MikenOH
Looks like your were around 2.29 in the white group runs?
Grant --> In those videos, yes. My best were in the 2:28s -- nearly flat one run
Questions:
What sort of camera were you using in the second video? That was very clear and free of the typical phone camera rolling shutter effects.
Grant -->First was Harry's 480p, iphone 5s
Grant -->Second was GoPro (G1) 720p, wide
Did you have a data logger running during those runs? I use Race Render to merge my RaceChrono data from the phone with the Canon Elph video when I'm not using the phone for everything. A great program for $20 and easy to use.
Grant --> I run Harry's for data all runs. Forgot to turn it on video on a few - including the "2nd video"
How's the track when cold with the new pavement?
Also, did they grind down the the curbs in the S's? it didn't look like they were upseting the car much when you went over them. Last year I hit the second one on the left at full bore and it really jolted the car.
Grant --> mechani9cal grip is good - nothing's polished yet. Decent cold, but cold is unpredictable! I took 2 laps before i pushed.
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
| You're relaxed and consistent ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - 9 years ago |
... with good lines.
From the camera's angle it looks like you're not using all the track.
If that's the case you're giving up exit speed in the turns.
When you get passed by a 911 just before a turn, you should be able to immediately tuck behind and keep up with him through the turn, even challage to pass.
Your car handles better so if you have decent tires you should be quicker than the 911 through the turns.
When you're letting a faster car pass you you shouldn't have to lift off the gass. It seems that that's where you're loosing momentum.
I don't mean to be critical. It's just my inner instructor coming out.
You've certainly progressed very well in the last year or so.
Congratulations.
I wish I could have been there. Maybe in 2015.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
From the camera's angle it looks like you're not using all the track.
If that's the case you're giving up exit speed in the turns.
When you get passed by a 911 just before a turn, you should be able to immediately tuck behind and keep up with him through the turn, even challage to pass.
Your car handles better so if you have decent tires you should be quicker than the 911 through the turns.
When you're letting a faster car pass you you shouldn't have to lift off the gass. It seems that that's where you're loosing momentum.
I don't mean to be critical. It's just my inner instructor coming out.
You've certainly progressed very well in the last year or so.
Congratulations.
I wish I could have been there. Maybe in 2015.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Re: You're relaxed and consistent ... grant - 9 years ago |
Quote
Pedro (Weston, FL)
... with good lines.
From the camera's angle it looks like you're not using all the track.
Grant --> I should be...where? I am a bit careful of the rumble turtles....If you have a reference time I'll look, but it may be the angle. Occasionally i don't track out the last few inches -- or foot - but that means i didn't enter as fast as i should have. Over-cautious on some entries, trying to overcome. Raised my speed on 3 and 10 about 10 mph.
When you get passed by a 911 just before a turn, you should be able to immediately tuck behind and keep up with him through the turn, even challage to pass.
Grant --> I'll go back and watch. As i recall, that RG all the 911s were race prepped on slicks. They can stick better than me alas. While it depends on the turn ( and i have to go look with your comments in mind), i am often foot to floor trying to follow, without luck. certainly true in the snake. In the esses I'm still being a pussy. Fulls stop :-)
When you're letting a faster car pass you you shouldn't have to lift off the gas. It seems that that's where you're loosing momentum.
Grant --> See preceding. I need to go back and review. Thanks.
I don't mean to be critical. It's just my inner instructor coming out.
Grant --> Appreciated.
I wish I could have been there. Maybe in 2015.
Grant --> I'll keep inviting you!
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
I see a lot of advanced drivers--and a few instructors--"sawing" the wheel around tight turns like the Keyhole at Mid-OH and turn 1 at VIR. I would think it would be unsettling the car but a lot of good driver seem to do this.
What's the theory the theory behind this kind of driving?
thanks..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2014 05:08PM by MikenOH. (view changes)
What's the theory the theory behind this kind of driving?
thanks..
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2014 05:08PM by MikenOH. (view changes)
| I'll give you my answer(s) (for better or worse) grant - 9 years ago |
1. lots of little slides that i catch
2. i am beginning to make very small movements to feel out where i am in terms of grip? How does the car react when i ask for another degree of turning? It tells you a lot, without upsetting the balance ( the mass doesn't react that fast).
Note that Simon did a lot of it in my car at WGI. In fact he advocated it. small.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
2. i am beginning to make very small movements to feel out where i am in terms of grip? How does the car react when i ask for another degree of turning? It tells you a lot, without upsetting the balance ( the mass doesn't react that fast).
Note that Simon did a lot of it in my car at WGI. In fact he advocated it. small.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Some very advanced drivers saw at the wheel for several reasons:
1- Because of a bumpy race track, such as Sebring or The Nurburgring.
The bumps unsettle the car and the driver corrects with steering inputs.
2- On a car with very direct-feel, such as an older 911 the driver is trying to find his tire's limits.
3- Drivers tend to use sawing to see if the car is sliding. If you move the wheel in one direction and the car doesn't react it's sliding.
4- Because of habit.
5- Because of talent. Some drivers are so talented that they can micro-manage a turn and convert it into a sequence of small straights.
Ayrton Senna comes to mind. Also Walter Rohrl is a master at it.
As an instructor I don't automatically condemn it. Some drivers are quicker in their particular car when sawing at the wheel.
Other drivers just think they're quicker because of all the work they're doing.
Happy Porscheing
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
1- Because of a bumpy race track, such as Sebring or The Nurburgring.
The bumps unsettle the car and the driver corrects with steering inputs.
2- On a car with very direct-feel, such as an older 911 the driver is trying to find his tire's limits.
3- Drivers tend to use sawing to see if the car is sliding. If you move the wheel in one direction and the car doesn't react it's sliding.
4- Because of habit.
5- Because of talent. Some drivers are so talented that they can micro-manage a turn and convert it into a sequence of small straights.
Ayrton Senna comes to mind. Also Walter Rohrl is a master at it.
As an instructor I don't automatically condemn it. Some drivers are quicker in their particular car when sawing at the wheel.
Other drivers just think they're quicker because of all the work they're doing.
Happy Porscheing
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| 2 and 3 for me *NM* grant - 9 years ago |
Thanks, Pedro--that explains it.
I put a second camera in our car to catch my steering inputs at the last DE ( the 981 doesn't easily lend itself to camera mounts between the seats) and was surprised how few steering inputs I was making as I went around the track--vs. other video I've seen from advanced drivers, which prompted my question.
I put a second camera in our car to catch my steering inputs at the last DE ( the 981 doesn't easily lend itself to camera mounts between the seats) and was surprised how few steering inputs I was making as I went around the track--vs. other video I've seen from advanced drivers, which prompted my question.
.. then there is no benefit. And there is a cost in theory. Maximum grip comes on a smooth arc. If you close that arc, you slide. If you open that arc, at a given speed, you give up turning, and must make it up later (tighter arc). So any deviation in the long run costs you.
What i find is that my imprecise butt dyno, coupled with changing track, tire and ambient conditions, means that i leave a LOT of grip on the table unused, out of caution. By constantly testing i can come much closer - gaining more than i give up.
We'll leave Walter out of this. Laws of physics don't apply to him anyway.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
What i find is that my imprecise butt dyno, coupled with changing track, tire and ambient conditions, means that i leave a LOT of grip on the table unused, out of caution. By constantly testing i can come much closer - gaining more than i give up.
We'll leave Walter out of this. Laws of physics don't apply to him anyway.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
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