Re: Well, like Grant you assume everyone's experience will be like yours. How one can logically.... |  |  |
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| battery replacement boxsterd - 9 years ago |
| Re: battery replacement Guenter in Ontario - 9 years ago |
Are you planning to replace your battery and are concerned about what will happen between the time the old battery is removed and the new one is connected?
In this case, there's no reprogramming the computer needed. It may run a little differently for the first few miles until it "relearns" your driving style. You might have to reset the top most window stop. (When I replaced my battery, my 06 Boxster did not require the window presets.
In this case, there's no reprogramming the computer needed. It may run a little differently for the first few miles until it "relearns" your driving style. You might have to reset the top most window stop. (When I replaced my battery, my 06 Boxster did not require the window presets.
| Re: battery replacement boxsterd - 9 years ago |
| The stealer lies. See my longer commment. *NM* grant - 9 years ago |
when battery power is lost. If for instance the car is configured so the doors lock under way that might be lost. For cars with PSM the steering wheel angle sensor may flag an error but just driving the car normally will make this go away.
The techs use shop power to keep power to the car's electrical system while replacing a battery.
I replaced a battery in my 996 a while back and the change over was so quick -- although I wasn't hurrying -- as best I could tell nothing was lost. The seat memories were not affected.
On general principles, I reset the window limits and performed a calibration on the E-Gas system. With a battery change, these and what else might need doing should be covered in your car's owners manual.
Oh, the owners manual may not contain the up to date info in what battery is specified for your car. When my 2002 Boxster's battery died and I bought a new one at the dealer the parts manager looked up the part number and found Porsche had changed the battery for my car. It was physically bigger -- longer -- and had more AH's and CCA's.
The techs use shop power to keep power to the car's electrical system while replacing a battery.
I replaced a battery in my 996 a while back and the change over was so quick -- although I wasn't hurrying -- as best I could tell nothing was lost. The seat memories were not affected.
On general principles, I reset the window limits and performed a calibration on the E-Gas system. With a battery change, these and what else might need doing should be covered in your car's owners manual.
Oh, the owners manual may not contain the up to date info in what battery is specified for your car. When my 2002 Boxster's battery died and I bought a new one at the dealer the parts manager looked up the part number and found Porsche had changed the battery for my car. It was physically bigger -- longer -- and had more AH's and CCA's.
| Yes, as i noted below a lot of adaptations will be lost, but quickly re-learned. grant - 9 years ago |
Window travel
Auto tranny and throttle adaptations
maybe some memory positions, but i foudn that most of those held over is you step lively ( have everything prepped).
In the 986 it was a fast and easy swap with a relatively light battery and me sanding in the frunk.
In my Audi S6 on the other hand, it was hold the 68 - count 'em - 68 pound battery, arms outstretched, over the motor and down under the cowl with like 1/8" to spare. who needs the gym? 9 actually, me, so i could even accomplish it!)
But the fact remained that in both cases ( all three, I replaced two porsche batteries in the last 2 years) i didnt have to reset anything important.
yea, all three drove a little differently and the windows were truly dumb - no auto anything But two days later all was normal.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Auto tranny and throttle adaptations
maybe some memory positions, but i foudn that most of those held over is you step lively ( have everything prepped).
In the 986 it was a fast and easy swap with a relatively light battery and me sanding in the frunk.
In my Audi S6 on the other hand, it was hold the 68 - count 'em - 68 pound battery, arms outstretched, over the motor and down under the cowl with like 1/8" to spare. who needs the gym? 9 actually, me, so i could even accomplish it!)
But the fact remained that in both cases ( all three, I replaced two porsche batteries in the last 2 years) i didnt have to reset anything important.
yea, all three drove a little differently and the windows were truly dumb - no auto anything But two days later all was normal.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
| Re: battery replacement Guenter in Ontario - 9 years ago |
Quote
boxsterd
Yeah, dealer said something about the computer will need to be reprogrammed after the battery is disconnected.
False?
It would help to know what year your car is, but I'm not aware of any year where car's computer has to be reset after changing the battery. There might be some settings lost. With earlier 986's, you have to have the radio code.
With my 06 987, after I changed the battery, car started right up. Ran just a little rough, but settled right down. The manual said I'd have to reset the window upper and lower limit, but I didn't even have to do that. It probably took me all of 10 minutes to change the battery right in the store parking lot. (My battery had died while we were away on a weekend trip. I had the car parked on a downhill. Just let it roll down a bit, popped the clutch and away I went in search of a battery.)
Absolutely correct. Roger.  *NM* Guenter in Ontario - 9 years ago |
9Vmemorysaver
Use a fresh 9V battery, of course.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 08:30PM by Laz. (view changes)
Use a fresh 9V battery, of course.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2014 08:30PM by Laz. (view changes)
| What year is your car? grant - 9 years ago |
Prior to date X ( around 2003) the onyl issue was the radio code might need to be punched in.
After that date there is no radio code, it is coded to the CAN-BUSS
Several functions will need to re-learn. for example, the one touch up and down of the windows require one complete cycle. Big whoop.
Just replace it.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
After that date there is no radio code, it is coded to the CAN-BUSS
Several functions will need to re-learn. for example, the one touch up and down of the windows require one complete cycle. Big whoop.
Just replace it.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
| The battery is just a battery mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC - 9 years ago |
And getting a battery from any discount source as long as it is the right size and power is just fine. See the Owner's Manual for specs on the battery. Once I had a list of about 20 batteries that were the right size and fit, the list is outdated by now. But it shows how non-unique the battery is. Get a battery that has the vent tube fitting and connect it to the existing tube if you have one. Also pay attention to which side the positive and which side the negative is on your current battery.
I actually got a battery mail order, charged it with a charger I had around and did the swap standing in the frunk. I could have gone to the local parts store. Took 15 minutes.
As Grant says, the "computer has to be reprogrammed" stuff is just non-competitive mumbo-jumbo to get the business. The car will start and the computer will relearn once you drive it. So will the windows and the '97-'02 radio code can be obtained online if you don't have them. The 4 digit code is often written on the "options" sticker in the inside lid of the trunk or inside the records of service book.
I actually got a battery mail order, charged it with a charger I had around and did the swap standing in the frunk. I could have gone to the local parts store. Took 15 minutes.
As Grant says, the "computer has to be reprogrammed" stuff is just non-competitive mumbo-jumbo to get the business. The car will start and the computer will relearn once you drive it. So will the windows and the '97-'02 radio code can be obtained online if you don't have them. The 4 digit code is often written on the "options" sticker in the inside lid of the trunk or inside the records of service book.
| Re: The battery is just a battery boxsterd - 9 years ago |
| Right. And if you work fast, maybe not that either.... grant - 9 years ago |
Just don't be alarmed when the windows and other stuff are dumb for a short while.
I have batteries disconnected *all the time* to work on seat/belt wiring, on stuff in the column, or when i simply don't want sparks around gas.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 05:03PM by grant. (view changes)
I have batteries disconnected *all the time* to work on seat/belt wiring, on stuff in the column, or when i simply don't want sparks around gas.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2014 05:03PM by grant. (view changes)
Applying the radio code to the radio is one thing.
The window limits should be reset.
The E-Gas should be calibrated.
Resetting the window limits is quick. A lower then raising of the window and 5 seconds more. Then do the other side.
The E-Gas recal operation takes nominally 1 minute 10 seconds.
The "car" would probably be ok if you didn't do either of these, but I would worry about the window possibly not dropping the right amount when the door opened or possibly being raised too much and putting undo strain and wear and tear on the window regulators.
The E-Gas calibration might not differ that much from the default but why not ensure this is optimum? Off idle throttle response and low speed drivability might suffer if this isn't done.
Frankly I find any discussion about not doing these things after a battery swap silly. While the battery swap time may not be long enough for these actions to be required, why not ensure these are optimum afterwards? What is saved or gained by not doing these?
I mean it is not like you have to go to a dealer to have this done. You can do it in your driveway in under 2 minutes. (I do the E-Gas recalibration every 5K miles -- when I pick up the car after having an oil/filter service done -- and the window limit resets only after a battery swap.)
You leave the driveway with a new battery and these settings or limits or calibrations all up to date and the car ready to rock and roll.
The window limits should be reset.
The E-Gas should be calibrated.
Resetting the window limits is quick. A lower then raising of the window and 5 seconds more. Then do the other side.
The E-Gas recal operation takes nominally 1 minute 10 seconds.
The "car" would probably be ok if you didn't do either of these, but I would worry about the window possibly not dropping the right amount when the door opened or possibly being raised too much and putting undo strain and wear and tear on the window regulators.
The E-Gas calibration might not differ that much from the default but why not ensure this is optimum? Off idle throttle response and low speed drivability might suffer if this isn't done.
Frankly I find any discussion about not doing these things after a battery swap silly. While the battery swap time may not be long enough for these actions to be required, why not ensure these are optimum afterwards? What is saved or gained by not doing these?
I mean it is not like you have to go to a dealer to have this done. You can do it in your driveway in under 2 minutes. (I do the E-Gas recalibration every 5K miles -- when I pick up the car after having an oil/filter service done -- and the window limit resets only after a battery swap.)
You leave the driveway with a new battery and these settings or limits or calibrations all up to date and the car ready to rock and roll.
| aside from running windows up and down once... grant - 9 years ago |
I swapped batteries once in my 2001 S and reset the radio.
Nothing else needed doing. By the time I dropped the top, lowered the windows and got out of my neighborhood all was well.
Since it was an Optima install and I had to install the mounting kit before installing the battery and go get a slightly longer grounding strap, it took lots longer than normal.
I didn't need the dealer nor a Porsche branded battery nor to follow a checklist.
Nothing else needed doing. By the time I dropped the top, lowered the windows and got out of my neighborhood all was well.
Since it was an Optima install and I had to install the mounting kit before installing the battery and go get a slightly longer grounding strap, it took lots longer than normal.
I didn't need the dealer nor a Porsche branded battery nor to follow a checklist.
| Well, like Grant you assume everyone's experience will be like yours. How one can logically.... MarcW - 9 years ago |
assume this is beyond me.
I do not know the window limits get reset with use and neither do you. I doubt it as why would Porsche waste paper and ink documenting this process? And the same for the E-gas calibration? How do you know E-gas operation was optimum after the battery change?
Why have the techs take the time to connect some kind of shop power to sustain the car's electrical system power while disconnecting the battery if the window and E-gas are not affected by this loss of power? I observe the techs connect this back up power supply all the time to cars in the service bay. They could save a lot of time over time by eliminating this apparently unnecessary step, and this for just warranty work alone.
Like I said it is not like one has to go the dealer to reset the window limits or calibrate the E-gas system. The process takes what maybe 2 minutes tops? Apparently for some owners part of the joy of Porsche ownership experience is to see how many corners one can cut, how far afield from the factory guidelines one can stray and still not suffer any (at least immediate) consequence.
To ignore Porsche on this matter is your business. But to use your experience no matter how drama free as sufficient to overrule Porsche on this matter and to claim there is no risk to ignoring Porsche on this subject is just wrong to me.
I do not know the window limits get reset with use and neither do you. I doubt it as why would Porsche waste paper and ink documenting this process? And the same for the E-gas calibration? How do you know E-gas operation was optimum after the battery change?
Why have the techs take the time to connect some kind of shop power to sustain the car's electrical system power while disconnecting the battery if the window and E-gas are not affected by this loss of power? I observe the techs connect this back up power supply all the time to cars in the service bay. They could save a lot of time over time by eliminating this apparently unnecessary step, and this for just warranty work alone.
Like I said it is not like one has to go the dealer to reset the window limits or calibrate the E-gas system. The process takes what maybe 2 minutes tops? Apparently for some owners part of the joy of Porsche ownership experience is to see how many corners one can cut, how far afield from the factory guidelines one can stray and still not suffer any (at least immediate) consequence.
To ignore Porsche on this matter is your business. But to use your experience no matter how drama free as sufficient to overrule Porsche on this matter and to claim there is no risk to ignoring Porsche on this subject is just wrong to me.
| Well, part of the problem is often there is no outward sign anything needs resetting. I admit this.. MarcW - 9 years ago |
could lead one to believe these steps are unnecessary, and for some who change their own battery they might be. As I mentioned when I changed the battery on my 996 I never saw the warning from the steering sensor. I did reset the window limits and calibrate the E-Gas just out of habit. When I took the old battery back to get credit for it the tech offered to reset the sensor warning with the computer it if bothered me having it on although he told me it would go away with driving and was surprised when I told him there was no warning. I attributed the lack of a warning to the fact I guess I was quick enough getting the old battery out and the new battery in the car's electrical system didn't loose residual power.
I actually don't like this explanation as the car was without 12V power for around a minute and while I didn't specifically put any electrical load on the car I had the front trunk lid open which would have the trunk light on and which would or should have drained any residual electrical power from the car's electrical system including the steering sensor, E-gas and the window regulators, unless there is some kind of isolation present that I'm unaware of, isolation in that while the various circuits are powered by the same electrical source: battery or alternator when the engine is running; they are not directly connected. I actually like this explanation though I'm not sure there exists this unbeknownst to me isolation between the car's various electrical circuits.
Anyhow, the procedure to reset the E-gas system is documented in the owners manual. To save you the trouble of looking this up and because I believe it is the same of your car as it is for my 2002 and my 2003 cars (and so far for all cars with E-Gas): Start with the key off. Keep your foot off the gas pedal during this procedure. Turn the key to the on position and leave the key on for 60 seconds. I use the dash clock for a timer, turning the key on when the minute increments and turning it off a few seconds after the minute increments again to ensure the key was on for the full 60 seconds. Then when you turn the key off after 60 seconds leave it off for 10 seconds. Done. The next time you start the engine the E-gas system is calibrated and will remain so until the next loss of power.
AFAIK there is no scheduled recalibration of the E-Gas system but I do this after every DIY battery swap -- so far just one for the 996 and two for the 986 -- and after every 5K mile oil/filter service.
I actually don't like this explanation as the car was without 12V power for around a minute and while I didn't specifically put any electrical load on the car I had the front trunk lid open which would have the trunk light on and which would or should have drained any residual electrical power from the car's electrical system including the steering sensor, E-gas and the window regulators, unless there is some kind of isolation present that I'm unaware of, isolation in that while the various circuits are powered by the same electrical source: battery or alternator when the engine is running; they are not directly connected. I actually like this explanation though I'm not sure there exists this unbeknownst to me isolation between the car's various electrical circuits.
Anyhow, the procedure to reset the E-gas system is documented in the owners manual. To save you the trouble of looking this up and because I believe it is the same of your car as it is for my 2002 and my 2003 cars (and so far for all cars with E-Gas): Start with the key off. Keep your foot off the gas pedal during this procedure. Turn the key to the on position and leave the key on for 60 seconds. I use the dash clock for a timer, turning the key on when the minute increments and turning it off a few seconds after the minute increments again to ensure the key was on for the full 60 seconds. Then when you turn the key off after 60 seconds leave it off for 10 seconds. Done. The next time you start the engine the E-gas system is calibrated and will remain so until the next loss of power.
AFAIK there is no scheduled recalibration of the E-Gas system but I do this after every DIY battery swap -- so far just one for the 996 and two for the 986 -- and after every 5K mile oil/filter service.
| This sounds like nonsense to me *NM* grant - 9 years ago |
| For clarity the "nonsense" I refer to is not the calibration method, but rather the ambiguous... grant - 9 years ago |
take away from:
I did reset the window limits and calibrate the E-Gas just out of habit. When I took the old battery back to get credit for it the tech offered to reset the sensor warning with the computer it if bothered me having it on although he told me it would go away with driving and was surprised when I told him there was no warning. I attributed the lack of a warning to the fact I guess I was quick enough getting the old battery out and the new battery in the car's electrical system didn't loose residual power.
I actually don't like this explanation as the car was without 12V power for around a minute and while I didn't specifically put any electrical load on the car I had the front trunk lid open which would have the trunk light on and which would or should have drained any residual electrical power from the car's electrical system including the steering sensor, E-gas and the window regulators, unless there is some kind of isolation present that I'm unaware of, isolation in that while the various circuits are powered by the same electrical source: battery or alternator when the engine is running; they are not directly connected. I actually like this explanation though I'm not sure there exists this unbeknownst to me isolation between the car's various electrical circuits.
Note, by the way that the warning would have gone away. I don't have all the answers either, but i suspect this is for the very reason i ignore it all: there is a continuous calibration in effect. I've designed a few systems like this where you know the basic limits but not how each component is calibrated. In generally one would typically begin with a best guess based on design intent, and then monitor the signal. If, for example, the signal shows a pedal that goes beyond the end (WOT) position, we can guess that the voltage is a bit high and should be scaled down. Similarly if it never reaches zero... etc.
I have never experienced EPC issues in this car ( although i have had mechanical interference at the actual butterfly cause "implausibl throttle angle" errors on my Audis. Together these say : 1) leaving it alone shoudl work well, and 2) typical in-field systems do continue to monitor the signals, compare them to the map/guess, and either correct the calibration or generate an error.
So i ignore it and let the system do its job.
Its nice to know the calibration method should i need it. Someday I may try it Back-to-back and see if anything is perceptible.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2014 06:01PM by grant. (view changes)
I did reset the window limits and calibrate the E-Gas just out of habit. When I took the old battery back to get credit for it the tech offered to reset the sensor warning with the computer it if bothered me having it on although he told me it would go away with driving and was surprised when I told him there was no warning. I attributed the lack of a warning to the fact I guess I was quick enough getting the old battery out and the new battery in the car's electrical system didn't loose residual power.
I actually don't like this explanation as the car was without 12V power for around a minute and while I didn't specifically put any electrical load on the car I had the front trunk lid open which would have the trunk light on and which would or should have drained any residual electrical power from the car's electrical system including the steering sensor, E-gas and the window regulators, unless there is some kind of isolation present that I'm unaware of, isolation in that while the various circuits are powered by the same electrical source: battery or alternator when the engine is running; they are not directly connected. I actually like this explanation though I'm not sure there exists this unbeknownst to me isolation between the car's various electrical circuits.
Note, by the way that the warning would have gone away. I don't have all the answers either, but i suspect this is for the very reason i ignore it all: there is a continuous calibration in effect. I've designed a few systems like this where you know the basic limits but not how each component is calibrated. In generally one would typically begin with a best guess based on design intent, and then monitor the signal. If, for example, the signal shows a pedal that goes beyond the end (WOT) position, we can guess that the voltage is a bit high and should be scaled down. Similarly if it never reaches zero... etc.
I have never experienced EPC issues in this car ( although i have had mechanical interference at the actual butterfly cause "implausibl throttle angle" errors on my Audis. Together these say : 1) leaving it alone shoudl work well, and 2) typical in-field systems do continue to monitor the signals, compare them to the map/guess, and either correct the calibration or generate an error.
So i ignore it and let the system do its job.
Its nice to know the calibration method should i need it. Someday I may try it Back-to-back and see if anything is perceptible.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2014 06:01PM by grant. (view changes)
and speculation is not borne out in reality.
Windows will take one cycle. The rest is imperceptible, if real.
Oh, and maybe the radio on older cars, if, as i said, you are slow.
My point is not to argue Marc, nor to say that these things might not be theoretically possible, but to avoid scaring off DIY folks with un-necessary complications. They simply dont materialize in the real world and should be no cause for pause. Anyone with basic mechanical and electrical skills should be very comfortable replacing a battery. And i would also suggest that folks err on the side of disconnecting it whenever they are doing work where electricity is not desirable. I don't want to put anything between people and safety - of them or of components. And this speculation does.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2014 09:40AM by grant. (view changes)
Windows will take one cycle. The rest is imperceptible, if real.
Oh, and maybe the radio on older cars, if, as i said, you are slow.
My point is not to argue Marc, nor to say that these things might not be theoretically possible, but to avoid scaring off DIY folks with un-necessary complications. They simply dont materialize in the real world and should be no cause for pause. Anyone with basic mechanical and electrical skills should be very comfortable replacing a battery. And i would also suggest that folks err on the side of disconnecting it whenever they are doing work where electricity is not desirable. I don't want to put anything between people and safety - of them or of components. And this speculation does.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2014 09:40AM by grant. (view changes)
| AAA: battery replacement tom coughlin - 9 years ago |
The AAA driver told me a few years ago that he wouldn't sell me a battery since the AAA one they sold then didn't have enough power for my car (several callbacks for failed new batteries). He did however offer to test mine (he was already there) and it turned out to need a charge. I hooked up my charger and recharged and I'm still driving with it.
I must have left something on that killed my battery. Tom
I must have left something on that killed my battery. Tom
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