thanks. Step #1 is to see where the baffle is. There are some hints mine may be "right" |  |  |
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I just fitted the Technosump deep sump kit exactly according to the Installation Instructions posted on the TuneRS Motorsports site and am sceptical of the effectiveness of the horizontal baffle. This aluminum horizontal baffle(not the stock plastic vertical baffle) is a unique feature of the Technosump but I think there is a mistake in the Installation Instructions that renders it useless for reducing the high-g oil starvation issue.
Here is a link to the installation instructions:[shop.tunersmotorsports.com]
The large aluminum sheet ,horizontal baffle is attached directly to the sump plate.
- this traps oil between the original sump plate and the new horizontal baffle- even with high g forces.The extended oil pick-up dips down into this baffled arrea to suck oil. But the space to trap the oil is pitifully shallow. I doubt it contains 1/2 a pint.
A better installation would be to first attach the new gold spacer to the sump plate and then fit the horizontal baffle on top of the gold spacer. That would trap at least a quart of oil. Now THAT would be effective !
To those who have fitted the Technosump- does this make sense?
Yes, you would need 3 longer spacers to support the 3 bolts that attach the plastic vertical baffle but that is all.
Am I missing something?
Here is a link to the installation instructions:[shop.tunersmotorsports.com]
The large aluminum sheet ,horizontal baffle is attached directly to the sump plate.
- this traps oil between the original sump plate and the new horizontal baffle- even with high g forces.The extended oil pick-up dips down into this baffled arrea to suck oil. But the space to trap the oil is pitifully shallow. I doubt it contains 1/2 a pint.
A better installation would be to first attach the new gold spacer to the sump plate and then fit the horizontal baffle on top of the gold spacer. That would trap at least a quart of oil. Now THAT would be effective !
To those who have fitted the Technosump- does this make sense?
Yes, you would need 3 longer spacers to support the 3 bolts that attach the plastic vertical baffle but that is all.
Am I missing something?
| The online instructions are outdated ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - 9 years ago |
Those were the first installations which we have since modified.
Initially it was done so that the black plastic baffles would be replaced without alterations, making the installation simpler.
After doing multiple tests, it was determined that the horizontal baffle should indeed go on the top of the gold-anodized spacer.
New kits will be shipped with the additional spacers and bolts and the vertical plastic baffles will have to be cut down in order to fit.
Doing this makes the TechnoSump much more efficient.
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Initially it was done so that the black plastic baffles would be replaced without alterations, making the installation simpler.
After doing multiple tests, it was determined that the horizontal baffle should indeed go on the top of the gold-anodized spacer.
New kits will be shipped with the additional spacers and bolts and the vertical plastic baffles will have to be cut down in order to fit.
Doing this makes the TechnoSump much more efficient.
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| When did the change take place? grant - 9 years ago |
and specifically relative to my install, last winter...
And were the test results you shared with the original method or the revised method?
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2015 06:52PM by grant. (view changes)
And were the test results you shared with the original method or the revised method?
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/2015 06:52PM by grant. (view changes)
... of the horizontal baffle.
Moving the horizontal baffle to the top of the gold spacer makes it a bit more efficient.
tonyd makes it sound as if it didn't work then it was changed. That is not so, and I explained that to him.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Moving the horizontal baffle to the top of the gold spacer makes it a bit more efficient.
tonyd makes it sound as if it didn't work then it was changed. That is not so, and I explained that to him.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
I just checked with TuneRS(Taylor) and guess what- they were already modifying the Installation Instructions as described above ! They found the design/installation was ineffective -just as I suggested above.
I'll make the extra 3 spacers required.
I'll also need to remove more material from the vertical baffle.They will send a dwg.
A whole evenings work wasted.
It will take way longer that that to carefully separate the parts that have new sealer(supplied in the kit) on them.The risk is damaging the faces of the crankcase halves ! God what a mess.
Reluctantly I must say this issue shakes my confidence in the TuneRS products.I also bought and fitted a TuneRS DOF IMS kit and am concerned that may have similar problems.Let's see how they handle the issue.
I hope TuneRS contact everyone who installed this (incorrectly) and alert them.If you track your car and were relying on the the horizontal baffle protecting against oil starvation... ........
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2015 12:49PM by tonyd. (view changes)
I'll make the extra 3 spacers required.
I'll also need to remove more material from the vertical baffle.They will send a dwg.
A whole evenings work wasted.
It will take way longer that that to carefully separate the parts that have new sealer(supplied in the kit) on them.The risk is damaging the faces of the crankcase halves ! God what a mess.
Reluctantly I must say this issue shakes my confidence in the TuneRS products.I also bought and fitted a TuneRS DOF IMS kit and am concerned that may have similar problems.Let's see how they handle the issue.
I hope TuneRS contact everyone who installed this (incorrectly) and alert them.If you track your car and were relying on the the horizontal baffle protecting against oil starvation... ........
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2015 12:49PM by tonyd. (view changes)
... as they worked to protect the engine from oil starvation.
The TechnoSump has gotten better by installing the horizontal plate in a different position.
The DOF was redesigned and tested several times before the best solution was found.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
The TechnoSump has gotten better by installing the horizontal plate in a different position.
The DOF was redesigned and tested several times before the best solution was found.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Re: The first installations were not incorrect ... tonyd - 9 years ago |
We need one of Pedro's wonderful You Tube videos to help with this.
Meanwhile ,try this imperfect conceptual primer.
The objective is to keep the imaginary pick up tube immersed under all driving conditions to prevent oil starvation.
.
Half fill a dish pan with water. Set it on the floor in the passenger foot well of your Boxster. Drive normally. You will loose a lot of the water. Refill it and go for a 'spirited' drive along your favorite twisties.You'll loose most of it. Yes, Virginia -water climbs walls. But you can smack it down -just put a lid(piece of plywood+weight) on top of the dish pan. You will loose nothing. If you put a piece of plywood at the bottom of the pan -it will be ineffective. Conclusion- lids work, but not if the sink to the bottom of the pan.
1. Conclusion(derived), if you fit the horizontal baffle on top of the gold spacer it will be more effective than having it at the bottom of the pan.
But Pedro proved with instruments at Sebring that Technosump 'works' even with the baffle at the very bottom of the sump .How? Because of that honking big gold spacer that increases capacity by at least 2 quarts and the gold pickup tube spacer submerges the tube in a much taller head of oil. That huge extra volume kept the pick up submerged even with 1.1 G at turn 17 - and cooled the oil also.I speculate that the horizontal baffle did very little by comparison.
2. My interest in the horizontal baffle is quite different. I wanted to slow and reduce the 'oil climbing the walls' issue. Theoretically the deeper sump(increased oil capacity) makes this issue worse because there is much more oil available for climbing now.The lid/horizontal baffle obstructs this climbing problem. Why is that a problem? Because the climbing oil could reach the height of the flailing crankshaft. If this happens it will whisk up the oil into foam.
Oh , don't forget to mop up the half gallon of water on the passengers carpet :-).BTW, You could have prevented that with a lid- but only if it was on top of the pan.
One of my first engineering jobs was operating a lab wave machine to help predict wave action in harbors.This was a fun reprise.Watch waves crash inside a harbor wall and explode vertically and ricochet back - then think of your M96 engine. That is why I bought Pedro's baffle- to calm the waves. I hope this was fun.
Meanwhile ,try this imperfect conceptual primer.
The objective is to keep the imaginary pick up tube immersed under all driving conditions to prevent oil starvation.
.
Half fill a dish pan with water. Set it on the floor in the passenger foot well of your Boxster. Drive normally. You will loose a lot of the water. Refill it and go for a 'spirited' drive along your favorite twisties.You'll loose most of it. Yes, Virginia -water climbs walls. But you can smack it down -just put a lid(piece of plywood+weight) on top of the dish pan. You will loose nothing. If you put a piece of plywood at the bottom of the pan -it will be ineffective. Conclusion- lids work, but not if the sink to the bottom of the pan.
1. Conclusion(derived), if you fit the horizontal baffle on top of the gold spacer it will be more effective than having it at the bottom of the pan.
But Pedro proved with instruments at Sebring that Technosump 'works' even with the baffle at the very bottom of the sump .How? Because of that honking big gold spacer that increases capacity by at least 2 quarts and the gold pickup tube spacer submerges the tube in a much taller head of oil. That huge extra volume kept the pick up submerged even with 1.1 G at turn 17 - and cooled the oil also.I speculate that the horizontal baffle did very little by comparison.
2. My interest in the horizontal baffle is quite different. I wanted to slow and reduce the 'oil climbing the walls' issue. Theoretically the deeper sump(increased oil capacity) makes this issue worse because there is much more oil available for climbing now.The lid/horizontal baffle obstructs this climbing problem. Why is that a problem? Because the climbing oil could reach the height of the flailing crankshaft. If this happens it will whisk up the oil into foam.
Oh , don't forget to mop up the half gallon of water on the passengers carpet :-).BTW, You could have prevented that with a lid- but only if it was on top of the pan.
One of my first engineering jobs was operating a lab wave machine to help predict wave action in harbors.This was a fun reprise.Watch waves crash inside a harbor wall and explode vertically and ricochet back - then think of your M96 engine. That is why I bought Pedro's baffle- to calm the waves. I hope this was fun.
Unfortunately the repositioning is quite a chore to do successfully.I recommend against it.I am reluctant to say why because this is Pedro's product and his Board and he is a good man.But ,the TuneRS 'updated' instructions did not work well for me . I emailed them some of the solutions that worked for my engine but got no response.
If you do this repositioning job -your first problem is separating the parts from the crankcase halves- the sealant is very adhesive.
Then.allow plenty of time just to remove all that sealant. It is very tenacious. Do not scrape with a steel tool because of the risk of gouging the aluminum surfaces.That could cause leakage. Acetone works best- apply with old toothbrushes.Wear long gloves and full face mask.Acetone really stings in your eyes/skin but other solvents are not as effective and sting just as much. If the engine is in the car ,you'll get solvent spray and sticky sealant on you when you use the brush technique on the crankcase face.
There are other "issues" but I don't want to say more than necessary from dissuading you from trying a repositioning on a whim and thinking it is just a 3 hour job.It was not for me & I have the engine out and on a stand . A new installation would be a different scenario to discuss.I still think it is a good product. I hope this helps.
If you do this repositioning job -your first problem is separating the parts from the crankcase halves- the sealant is very adhesive.
Then.allow plenty of time just to remove all that sealant. It is very tenacious. Do not scrape with a steel tool because of the risk of gouging the aluminum surfaces.That could cause leakage. Acetone works best- apply with old toothbrushes.Wear long gloves and full face mask.Acetone really stings in your eyes/skin but other solvents are not as effective and sting just as much. If the engine is in the car ,you'll get solvent spray and sticky sealant on you when you use the brush technique on the crankcase face.
There are other "issues" but I don't want to say more than necessary from dissuading you from trying a repositioning on a whim and thinking it is just a 3 hour job.It was not for me & I have the engine out and on a stand . A new installation would be a different scenario to discuss.I still think it is a good product. I hope this helps.
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