From what I've read

BBC Top Gear:

The turbocharger continues its march across some of our most cherished engines. The next batch of Porsche 911s will get blowers for the mainstream models, Porsche's engineering chief Wolfgang Hatz told us at the Detroit show.

"You have to respect legal requirements [for lower CO2], so yes we're thinking turbos for standard 911s. You can't afford to keep an engine for 10 years any more."

He had earlier explained that the new 911 GT3 RS, which will be launched in March at the Geneva show, features an all-new very powerful naturally aspirated engine. A version of that engine, with turbos but less power, strangely, will be what's in the facelifted 911s in 2016.

"Emissions are important for us," said Hatz, "And we will reduce faster than the industry. Every new model will have lower CO2 than before. There aren't so many technologies to do it. If you look at euro per g/km then it's turbo. Then at the end of the decade electrification has to be the next huge step." Does that mean a hybrid for the all-new 911? "Yes." With expertise from the 918 and 919 racer, Porsche is in a good position.

He also acknowledged that Porsche is developing a four-cylinder turbo for the Cayman and Boxster ranges from 2016. Is it a flat four? "It's not an in-line four or a V4." Will it go into the 911? "Never. That's always a flat six." Phew.

Again in pursuit of better economy and performance, Hatz said Porsche is working on an all-new V8 for the next generation of Cayenne and Panamera. These cars also have to get lighter. He said the objective for the next Cayenne V6 is under two tonnes, even though it will add equipment. At the moment it's nearly 2100kg.

But you don't want to know about base-model SUVs, you want to know about hot semi-racers.

He confirmed there is a Cayman GT4 coming this year. He said it's developed by the motorsport department who do the GT versions of the 911. It will have about 400bhp, and be usefully lighter than a standard car. It's more hardcore than the old Cayman R, he said, and is "for customers who want an entry race car."

And the 911 GT3 RS will be at the Geneva show. Hatz said the existing GT3 surprised people by how civilised it is. He says the GT3 RS is a bigger jump from the GT3 than there was in the 997-generation GT3 to GT3 RS. So we're looking at a pretty rabid car.

But if that's not enough, what about people who want more: a GT2 with turbos? "We have so many 911 variants," - this was minutes after they'd launched the Targa 4 GTS - "but customers do ask for a GT2, and we will decide."

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

No, since I made sure I bought mine before the shoe dropped.

One of the best articles I've seen on the topic:

[kinja.roadandtrack.com]

The writing is on the wall, even Porsche has figured that out. To whit, while the new Macan Turbo is obviously a turbo, anyone notice the new 'Macan S' is a also turbo. Just as the manual gearbox will be completely gone in a few years, there are too many efficiencies availed by a turbo architecture to ignore it solely for the benefit of whiney enthusiasts like us.

I'm personally am looking forward to what's ahead... we are living in a golden age of super cars and hyper cars (most/all w/ turbos), no sense that great engineering shouldn't trickle down to the rest of the product line (though I really do wish manufacturers [Audi/BMW] would stop the truly awful practice of faking exhausts notes via the audio system - pathetic).

I think we're reading the same wall.

My best guess is the 2015's will be the last flat six engine Boxsters. (Except possibly the GT4). A few articles and quotes have suggested that 2016 (I'm guess that means MY 2016) will introduce the turbo flat 4.

Just one of the two reasons I got my 2014 981 when I did.

The turbo 4's will likely make more power and torque. But, somehow they just don't feel the same.

Maybe we're showing our age, G-man.

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Roger987
The turbo 4's will likely make more power and torque. But, somehow they just don't feel the same.

Maybe we're showing our age, G-man.

or sound the same.

"or sound the same."


Us, or the engines?

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Roger987
"or sound the same."

Us, or the engines?

Well, I think the engines (turbo 4 vs naturally aspirated flat six) don't sound the same.

I think you and I, old figs that we are, do have a tendency to sound the same. We just enjoy the art of driving and the sound of a free breathing Flat Six.

According to what Wolfgang Hatz, head of Porsche R&D, said at the Detroit Motor Show, turbocharging would not be coming to the GT3 RS. Turbocharging would be reserved for lesser 991's at the next overhaul later this year.
[www.autoexpress.co.uk]

So, I share his opinion about turbocharging.

I know that government regulations are forcing manufacturers to go to smaller, turbocharged engines in order to meet driving cycle test standards. The problem is that test is not a real world test. It might resemble real world if everyone drove like comatose Camry drivers. The only place I see a fuel saving with a turbo 4 is when cruising on the highway. Get into the twisties and keep that turbocharger spooled up and I doubt you'll see any difference in fuel economy.

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Guenter in Ontario

Quote
Roger987
"or sound the same."

Us, or the engines?

Well, I think the engines (turbo 4 vs naturally aspirated flat six) don't sound the same.

I think you and I, old figs that we are, do have a tendency to sound the same. We just enjoy the art of driving and the sound of a free breathing Flat Six.

According to what Wolfgang Hatz, head of Porsche R&D, said at the Detroit Motor Show, turbocharging would not be coming to the GT3 RS. Turbocharging would be reserved for lesser 991's at the next overhaul later this year.
[www.autoexpress.co.uk]

So, I share his opinion about turbocharging.

I know that government regulations are forcing manufacturers to go to smaller, turbocharged engines in order to meet driving cycle test standards. The problem is that test is not a real world test. It might resemble real world if everyone drove like comatose Camry drivers. The only place I see a fuel saving with a turbo 4 is when cruising on the highway. Get into the twisties and keep that turbocharger spooled up and I doubt you'll see any difference in fuel economy.

But under this usage scenario you wouldn't be or shouldn't be that concerned about fuel economy.

I can drive all day long in my 996 Turbo -- not quite like a comatose Camry driver but when in Rome drive like the Romans... -- and not see any boost being made but when I want boost I don't give a hoot about the fuel consumption. Besides unless I'm on a stretch of road that is very special -- in more ways than one -- I can't drive on the boost that long as the car's terminal speed increases to the point I have to back off the throttle and when I do this the boost goes away.

There is something sort of kind of similar going on with N/A engines. Hammer the engine hard, request enough torque with your right foot, and the DME will go open loop and fuel the engine to make its best power. Fuel consumption goes up but you can't unless you have the wide open autobahn in front of you maintain this level of torque demand for that long.

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MarcW

But under this usage scenario you wouldn't be or shouldn't be that concerned about fuel economy.

I can drive all day long in my 996 Turbo -- not quite like a comatose Camry driver but when in Rome drive like the Romans... -- and not see any boost being made but when I want boost I don't give a hoot about the fuel consumption. Besides unless I'm on a stretch of road that is very special -- in more ways than one -- I can't drive on the boost that long as the car's terminal speed increases to the point I have to back off the throttle and when I do this the boost goes away.

There is something sort of kind of similar going on with N/A engines. Hammer the engine hard, request enough torque with your right foot, and the DME will go open loop and fuel the engine to make its best power. Fuel consumption goes up but you can't unless you have the wide open autobahn in front of you maintain this level of torque demand for that long.

I agree about usage, Marc.

I'm not sure about percentages, but I would think that most sports car drivers would prefer curvy or twisty roads. In those conditions, you're constantly working the gas, accelerating out of turns (read turbo boost coming on). Around town - accelerating from stop signs, traffic lights etc. turbo boost coming on and off. I don't see much fuel consumption difference between the two types engines in this type of driving.

Those drivers with long commutes on highways and Interstates ( I believe that describes most of your driving ), wouldn't see turbo boost coming on very often once they're out of town.

So a lot does depend on the type of driving that you do. Driving style also plays a big role.

On the 2008 Vette coupe (manual) I typically get 28-30 mpg cruising in 6th gear on the highway. Spirited driving on a run with the Corvette club will result in 17 mpg. Driving normally in town will give 15 mpg typically. A day at the track doing HPDE has resulted in 8 mpg! The Boxster gives around 30 mpg on the highway, 20 mpg on a run with the Porsche club and 18 to 20 mpg driving in town.

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Guenter in Ontario

My best guess is the 2015's will be the last flat six engine Boxsters. (Except possibly the GT4). A few articles and quotes have suggested that 2016 (I'm guess that means MY 2016) will introduce the turbo flat 4.

Just one of the two reasons I got my 2014 981 when I did.

Want to bet on that G-man?

The turbo 4 will be a lower cost entry engine, and the flat six boxer engines will be around for a while. You really should try turning on the radio

BTW, what was your other reason for buying the 981?

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

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Gary in SoFL

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Guenter in Ontario

My best guess is the 2015's will be the last flat six engine Boxsters. (Except possibly the GT4). A few articles and quotes have suggested that 2016 (I'm guess that means MY 2016) will introduce the turbo flat 4.

Just one of the two reasons I got my 2014 981 when I did.

Want to bet on that G-man?

The turbo 4 will be a lower cost entry engine, and the flat six boxer engines will be around for a while. You really should try turning on the radio

BTW, what was your other reason for buying the 981?

You're on Gary. The articles haven't said whether it's model year 2016 or 2016 introduction, but coming with the first refresh. So I'll bet you a drink of your/my choice at the Boxster Bar at BRBS 2016 that by MY 2017, Boxsters (except for the GT4) will be turbo 4's.

And just for the record and Porsche enthusiasts, it sure would be nice if you won this bet.

As to question #2.
Man y'all ought to read my posts.

"As to question #2.
Man y'all ought to read my posts"

Three guesses:

1. Lighted vanity mirror? Not likely it.

2. Bluetooth for your iPhone? Naw.

3. Manual transmission perhaps?

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Roger987
"As to question #2.
Man y'all ought to read my posts"

Three guesses:

1. Lighted vanity mirror? Not likely it.

2. Bluetooth for your iPhone? Naw.

3. Manual transmission perhaps?

Man y'all's better 'n pee decay any day.

Quote
Guenter in Ontario

Quote
Gary in SoFL

Quote
Guenter in Ontario

My best guess is the 2015's will be the last flat six engine Boxsters. (Except possibly the GT4). A few articles and quotes have suggested that 2016 (I'm guess that means MY 2016) will introduce the turbo flat 4.

Just one of the two reasons I got my 2014 981 when I did.

Want to bet on that G-man?

The turbo 4 will be a lower cost entry engine, and the flat six boxer engines will be around for a while. You really should try turning on the radio

BTW, what was your other reason for buying the 981?

You're on Gary. The articles haven't said whether it's model year 2016 or 2016 introduction, but coming with the first refresh. So I'll bet you a drink of your/my choice at the Boxster Bar at BRBS 2016 that by MY 2017, Boxsters (except for the GT4) will be turbo 4's.

And just for the record and Porsche enthusiasts, it sure would be nice if you won this bet.

As to question #2.
Man y'all ought to read my posts.

LOL, my friend....

The minute $, or drinks are on the line your story changes from 2016 to an equivocating 2017....but it makes no difference.

The T4 will be an entry engine, and you'll still have the flat six, with a manual option for awhile....as in years.

And, I'll buy you that drink anyhow!

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

LY I was smitten with the new (one that works?) Targa at Detroit Auto Show. This year, I was spellbound by the:


Targa GTS (a mere $172k as shown)

Until I saw:


But only if I can get this to match for towing to DEs:


Aluminum Raptor - oh yeah!

And some more good old #MadeInDetroit to scoot around at the track...


Great weekend at the Detroit NAIAS and PCA/PNCA Special Preview Breakfast.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2015 09:33PM by Burg Boxster. (view changes)