Re: Silver aluminum flakes in oil |  |  |
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| Silver aluminum flakes in oil MikelSr - 9 years ago |
A friend of mine recently sold his 2001 S with 78k miles on it. The new owner replaced ims bearing and changed the oil after the bearing was replaced. This is what my friend told me, "The new owner said there is silver aluminum flakes/particles in the oil. He already had the motor pulled and the clutch and ims replaced and they said the ims was good." My friend said the new owner is worried that the motor is bad. My friend said the car has 78k on it, changed the oil frequently running synthetic.
This really is a friend of mine and not me. He is wondering what the flakes could be. Bearing? Original IMS was really bad? New IMS bad? I don't know if the car was started after the ims replacement and before the oil was changed. I did ask if the new owner was sure it was aluminum and he said yes.
Any thoughts I can relay to him?
TIA
Mike
This really is a friend of mine and not me. He is wondering what the flakes could be. Bearing? Original IMS was really bad? New IMS bad? I don't know if the car was started after the ims replacement and before the oil was changed. I did ask if the new owner was sure it was aluminum and he said yes.
Any thoughts I can relay to him?
TIA
Mike
| It is not uncommon for some work on something inside the engine to result in an increase... MarcW - 9 years ago |
in metal in the engine, particularly aluminum as the engine is mostly aluminum.
Certainly removing a tight fitting bearing and pressing another back into the engine can result in some aluminum flakes. (The flakes become very thin and tend to break into smaller pieces after going through the gears of the oil pump.)
Also, if the IMSB install was, pardon the expression, a butcher job, this can result in a real increase in metal in the oil as the butcher job generates even more metal particles as the bearing is pressed home incorrectly.
If the engine was pulled and worked on and then reinstalled and run this can also work to explain the flakes in the oil. The movement the engine gets being removed and worked on and reinstalled stirs up debris on the bottom of the oil sump and when the engine is subsequently run some of this debris gets ingested by the oil pump and what you get is a jump in metal pieces in the oil filter housing oil and oil filter element.
As long as a magnet run through the oil doesn't come out fuzzy with ferrous particles and the engine is otherwise quiet the owner can change the oil and filter and run the engine until warmed up, just idle is good enough, then remove the oil filter and see what's present.
What he finds or doesn't find determines what he does next.
I have to add that he should be ready to switch off the engine ASAP should the engine suddenly start making scary noises. While I don't think this will happen he should be on the alert, just in case.
Certainly removing a tight fitting bearing and pressing another back into the engine can result in some aluminum flakes. (The flakes become very thin and tend to break into smaller pieces after going through the gears of the oil pump.)
Also, if the IMSB install was, pardon the expression, a butcher job, this can result in a real increase in metal in the oil as the butcher job generates even more metal particles as the bearing is pressed home incorrectly.
If the engine was pulled and worked on and then reinstalled and run this can also work to explain the flakes in the oil. The movement the engine gets being removed and worked on and reinstalled stirs up debris on the bottom of the oil sump and when the engine is subsequently run some of this debris gets ingested by the oil pump and what you get is a jump in metal pieces in the oil filter housing oil and oil filter element.
As long as a magnet run through the oil doesn't come out fuzzy with ferrous particles and the engine is otherwise quiet the owner can change the oil and filter and run the engine until warmed up, just idle is good enough, then remove the oil filter and see what's present.
What he finds or doesn't find determines what he does next.
I have to add that he should be ready to switch off the engine ASAP should the engine suddenly start making scary noises. While I don't think this will happen he should be on the alert, just in case.
| Re: Silver aluminum flakes in oil mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC - 9 years ago |
| Re: Silver aluminum flakes in oil tonyd - 9 years ago |
Is it aluminum ? Or is it main/rod bearing debris? Needs knowledgeable examination to distinguish one from the other.
There are many locations in the engine that have steel parts running in aluminum housings/bearings. The camshafts for example. Not a problem if the oil film is maintained perfectly in every bearing but the moment the film collapses .........Not practical to remove the cams to inspect(?) but it is certainly a serious concern.
Worse is that this debris can easily clog small oil ways. You will never know until it blocks one almost completely.
There are many little 'pockets' in the engine where debris can accumulate harmlessly until it is 'swished' out in spirited driving.Then a big lump of gooey aluminum(?) particles plugs an oil way and ....
It looks like something like that happened in the M96 I am slowly rebuilding.The unknown is why the debris / The car had been meticulously maintained.
So what to do? Ask Pedro.
The P.O.. on the engine I have in pieces had fitted a full-flow LN filter recently -ask Pedro if he thinks this may help.Obviously LN think it does:-).Perhaps it depends where(if any) of the debris has been deposited and if the abnormal wear is continuing ?
The common advice is to examine the sump plate/cut open the filter. The Forum advice evaporates at the 'what do I do about it?' stage. The cynics would say- do you want to dismantle/repair before you have a big failure ,or after(like I am doing). I have insufficient experience to answer that question.But if you have a failure that destroys a crankshaft or case half - you'll find they are exceedingly expensive ! Hopefully others with more experience than I do will add comments for you.
There are many locations in the engine that have steel parts running in aluminum housings/bearings. The camshafts for example. Not a problem if the oil film is maintained perfectly in every bearing but the moment the film collapses .........Not practical to remove the cams to inspect(?) but it is certainly a serious concern.
Worse is that this debris can easily clog small oil ways. You will never know until it blocks one almost completely.
There are many little 'pockets' in the engine where debris can accumulate harmlessly until it is 'swished' out in spirited driving.Then a big lump of gooey aluminum(?) particles plugs an oil way and ....
It looks like something like that happened in the M96 I am slowly rebuilding.The unknown is why the debris / The car had been meticulously maintained.
So what to do? Ask Pedro.
The P.O.. on the engine I have in pieces had fitted a full-flow LN filter recently -ask Pedro if he thinks this may help.Obviously LN think it does:-).Perhaps it depends where(if any) of the debris has been deposited and if the abnormal wear is continuing ?
The common advice is to examine the sump plate/cut open the filter. The Forum advice evaporates at the 'what do I do about it?' stage. The cynics would say- do you want to dismantle/repair before you have a big failure ,or after(like I am doing). I have insufficient experience to answer that question.But if you have a failure that destroys a crankshaft or case half - you'll find they are exceedingly expensive ! Hopefully others with more experience than I do will add comments for you.
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