Re: So what is Apple going to name their car? i1, i9, iCar, iGo, iWheels, iCool, iRun, iFast, iRide...

Yeeehaaa! Wow.

My buddy took delivery a few weeks ago of an i8. Scissor doors, gas and electric...... wow.

Interior:

Stunning and very unique. Incredible detail and design. Getting in and out was not difficult but not easy either. You put one leg in, kinda duck under the door, sit on the rocker, pull the other leg in and slide down and in.

Electronic goodies: "Helicopter view". The display screen stitches together a 360 view from various cameras around the car and positions a figure of the car in the center. It looks like a camera is 20 ft above you looking down.... wow.

The heads up display looks like it is floating out ahead of the car. It includes map information and other cool stuff. Really neat and useful.

Performance:

I drove it in both the economy, all electric mode and in the extreme sport stupid mode (no need for the middle ground settings). It has a two-gear transmission and it was really quick. I mean it was a sports car just on electric. In stupid mode, the thing was the fasted car I ever drove. It pops into all-wheel drive.... electric in the front, three-banger turbo at over 250 HP in the rear and just takes off. I hit 75 MPH from a dead stop in like 5 feet. Honestly I never experienced this before.

I never could tell what the engine/power management systems was doing.... turning on the gas engine or not. If you pushed the throttle down hard in electric mode, the gas engine would kick in but you could not feel any transition.

Handling:

This car was tight. I mean really tight. The ride was pure sports car but it glided like on glass. Economy or stupid mode, it still was slick and smooth. The steering was completely numb; clearly the steering wheel was not attached to anything mechanical. I didn't push the thing so no comment about high speed handling.

Sounds..... who knows what it really sounded like... it pipes in some faky sheet into the cabin. I am an audiophile and really sensitive to sound and it drove me nuts.... awful. I would disconnect it if I could. I stood next to car when my buddy pulled into his garage in all electric mode... it sounded pretty cool with space-aged whines and whirring noises.

We ran a few errands and when we parked, people gathered around. I told them "We're from Jupiter!".

I am not easily impressed but this car is truly an engineering marvel and just a thrill to drive. I felt like I was in a pancake slicing my way forward.

Comparisons to Porsche experience. There is no comparison. Seriously, these two cars are different, for different people, for different purposes. It would be like comparing a Ford F150 with a boat. I loved it. Would I buy one? No. Too expensive and I like driving a manual sports car. But it was super fun and very very impressive piece of engineering. Just wonderful.

Peace
Bruce from Jupiter

Bruce

Have you driven the Tesla yet?
Any comparison?
I test drove the older Tesla and enjoyed it, but have not tried the P85D with Insane mode.
This just might put me over the edge.
The only antidote is to get this Philly snow melted and drive my 2011 Boxster S

But I did get my BMW X1 chipped by Dinan this week.
Always good to have more horsepower

Bill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/14/2015 08:57PM by Bill S. (view changes)

I have not driven the Tesla.

I have an odd bias against electric cars. Some of it is irrational and some rational.

Irrational:
I grew up watching Saturday and Sunday racing on TV with Chaparrals and such. I even had a 1/24 scale slot with the wing... the torque of the engine would push or pull a little stiff wire up to the wing..... wow... I was cool. What does every kid do while watching this stuff? AIR SHIFT......... Verbal VAROOOMS REAERRRRRROOOOOM!
Electric, instant torque.... yes and wow, but not for me due to the above comment. Sound? pfffft.....

Ok, now I am an adult (a stunted one notes my wife) and I drive a Porsche. Get it? Electric doesn't fit.

Rational:
I read a study on electric cars that came out of a Californian university that passed the fantasy sniff test for me.... it appeared pretty conservative with realistic ranges for gas prices, realistic projections on improvements to battery tech, and such. In short, without government subsidies (we the taxpayer pay), the payback on an electric car was like 10-13 years. Really? Now with lower gas prices, a situation I believe will be with us for many many years to come, the value proposition is worse. Further, when you look at the costs like manufacturing, in carbon and other environmental costs, the electric car is just not a panacea that some say it is. There is a reason venture money has been so slow in coming to this area.... they don't see it as the big payoff.

Now natural gas.... there may be the future ... but that came on as a bit of a surprise to us. Not so for the energy Illuminati who were designing and building LNG tankers 10 years ago gambling on what was coming. Notice the nat gas pumping installations going on at interstate fueling stations? All funded by private money. Cummins just introduced their big nat gas "deisel" and long haul trucking companies like Roadway and UPS the like have placed long-term orders. I plunked about $5k on Cummins stock last year. About 6 years ago, I was in Brasil and saw their public and taxi systems all running on nat gas..... cars can be easily converted with kits. A taxi drive told me the only real downside was a loss of power but again, these were converted engines.

Anyway, gasoline for me for now.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

for large units that can be centrally fueled, not cars that run all over the place until an enormous infrastructure is first built out for the units that big rigs on certain routes. Plus the shielding of the tanks becomes an issue the smaller you get. Lots of bus systems have run on natural gas for years.

I'm in a county that has potential for fracking. The economics of that have suddenly gone to heck and exploration scheduled for this year is on hold. So years from now, will natural gas be as plentiful? Fracking wells run out in a matter of months and, if investment in new wells slows (as it surely has), the glut may be a bit more temporary than some are planning.

Add in political risk in all the other major oil producing countries and I wouldn't be so sure the long term oil prices will remain low.

As to electric, just finished reading the BMW I3 forum where people love the cars while describing the current limits. (The I3 is the carbon fiber body 4 person $38k I3 BMW has been advertising with the Katie/Brian "what's the internet" ads.) As the temperatures drop, so does the mileage a charge will give you. Now if home and work have chargers and your commute is around 40 miles one way you can make it work on a car that advertises more than twice that. Not to mention fill-up times. Limits to every technology.

Even hybrids have their initial purchase price excess costs. And often compromises in features available and NVH. But at least they remain functional in the cold though MPG does drop ~5% in winter due to the need for cabin heat and the lesser energy content of winter formulated gas. Not that I'm complaining, I like an every other week fill up cost of under $10. I now stop at a gas station for a lottery ticket more often than for gas. (gotta dream)

Its fun to read about the 200 mile electric plans and the insane mode etc. But that is twice a Boxster's cost today. The volume price is not the $35k that GM and Tesla are promising in a couple of years, not when average salaries are challenged. More like the $20s.

Hybrids, e-cars, and such are all 'interim' technologies, full of compromises and expense. Hydrogen is where it's at, though still a long way to go in terms of distribution infrastructure, etc.

Quote
mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC
I'm in a county that has potential for fracking. The economics of that have suddenly gone to heck and exploration scheduled for this year is on hold.

Despite this, nat gas is in our future big time. The reason for the HOLD you speak of is because the Saudi's lowered their prices and we have a glut of gas production. This is classic. The issue is not oil prices but oil (and gas) production costs. This is something the greens don't get. The cost to the Saudi's to put a barrel of oil into a tanker is around $5 iirc. The reason they sold it for $100 is because they could and not because the world was running out or other silly crap like that. Now that nat gas is coming on line all around the world and in the USA in particular, and it is cheaper to produce (i.e., cost per "barrel"), we pump (or frack).

So... what do you think the Saudis or any producer with low costs will do? Say "Aw shucks, it was good while it lasted."? No way.... they just lower their prices and choke the competition. This is what is happening. Yes, Hitler... er I mean Putin is another factor as they want to choke him (and ISIS) of revenues, but fundamentally, they are just protecting their market.

So.... what is the cost per barrel equivalent oil to nat gas in the USA? About $33.76 a "barrel" for gas. That is low. YEEEEHAAAA!!! I love it. As of today the global price of a barrel of oil is selling around $55 per barrel. So..... exploration and production in the USA is slowing but this is only temporary. Why is it slowing? Two reasons: 1) their is a glut of production despite quickly growing demand and 2) Fear of the delta between alternatives, the price of oil, will continue to come down as oil producers protect their markets.

There are many wonderful consequences of low energy prices in the USA..... did you know companies are building chemical plants again in the USA??? We've been told by the conservative perverts at Fox News (they are not conservative, they are nuts) that we don't have chemical plants anymore because of government regulation and power unions both driving up costs. No, it was the feedstock of business: energy prices that chased them away. Now, with low energy prices and and expectation that they will stay that way long term, the construction and chemicals are back (I also invested in FMC because of this).

So........ gasoline prices will remain low for the next 10 to 20 years at least (and I suspect the electric car will die out). Regardless if we will drive nat gas cars or not, the feedstock of business, energy prices, will remain low due to USA fracking and improved oil extraction methods. Get your production costs down and "they" will come.

We are in for a bright future. Seriously, I believe we are starting a historic growth phase. Oh and don't let any politician or party tell you they did it...... BS.

USA Dept of Energy Nat Gas to Oil equivelent pricing

Enjoy,
Bruce in Philly



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2015 12:21PM by Bruce In Philly (2000 S Boxster, now '09 C2S). (view changes)

I'd love to get the extra power from 100% gas. It might hurt corn farmers, but help everyone else on food prices.

You won't hurt anyone if you take away something they never should have had.

The Ethanol thing is pure politics. If there really was any benefit to it, it is over. The machines are now better, the prices are down, and it actually made food prices rise. There is no free lunch.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

+1; when crude oil prices were high and domestic supplies limited, ethanol was seen as a way to reduce our dependence on foreign oil.
Now that the energy picture has changed dramatically, the rational for using Ethanol seems to make less sense, but getting it out of the product will be a difficult task given the politics of the issue.

The theory is that over time we will be able to generate electricity for cheaper. Further, we are still in the early adopter phase of electric cars. People are paying extra to have it first and to fund research and infrastructure that will enable more general adoption.

So while it's not currently a cost savings to own an electric car, that doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense.

See [www.usatoday.com]

Thanks for the great write up, Bruce. I haven't driven one or even seen one in the metal.

I think you nailed it though, that a car like this is for a totally different experience than driving for the pure enjoyment of the art of driving. Somehow, i8 seems an appropriate name (thinking iphone, ipad etc). It's more of a collection of electronic gadgets on wheels. So how many people will be focusing on the HUD and or 360 camera display, rather that what's around them while driving? I agree that cars like these are marvels of engineering. Boggles the mind. From the way you were describing it, I was picturing playing a video game rather than driving a car.

BMW is just one of the companies that has exterior engine sound recording that plays engine sound through the stereo. Porsche does it a little more realistically with it's engine sound being piped into the passenger compartment through a pipe with a diaphragm. In the 981 there are a couple of things that look like speakers behind the seats that transmit the sound. At least it's not fake sound. It's just the real sound being transmitted through an otherwise well insulated body.

If you're going to fake the sound, why spend so much money? You could just buy a Prius or family van and get one of these and still "enjoy" the thrill of a high powered car: [www.soundracer.se]

Dan Neil, my favorite automotive writer did a comprehensive review last year: WSJ Review

iFocusOnWhatYouDoBest

Good read but.......

So, being green sells cars? I would love to know what goes on at the board level when they make decisions to spend mass amounts of money on something that doesn't sell. Now compliance..... we all get that. Governments hold the biggest gun, but unless a company has to spend money on green, it better sell something or the executives are in violation of their fiduciary responsibilities to the stock holders. Risk reduction, or avoiding an issue later, is a good reason to spend money too.... but BMW is spending way way too much.

That article spent a ton of ink on being green.... I wanted to read stuff that will drive lust and desire. Who cares if Ms America can read or tap dance. Pull up in that car at the Burger World.... "Hey there Ms America, did you know this car's carbon fiber was made with hydroelectric power? What attracted me to you was your insight into water usage". Hmmmmm......Not on my planet.

I don't get it.

Peace
Bruce in Philly

Jeff Benson:

2016 Boxster, See it here: www.greatvalleyhouse.com/Boxster

---

First car: 1952 Hudson Hornet

First roadster: 1962 Austin Healy 3000 III

Still have: Computer free 1974 MGB

Previous Porsches since 1982: 924, 944, 944S, and four Boxsters; 97, 03, 08 & 2012

Put it under the wrong heading! iFocusOnWhatYouDoBest!

[www.theonion.com]

You'd think it would come with an iPhone holder rather than cup holder. Surprised The Onion missed that one.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

Controversial... But I like it, if I could, I would... Very interesting read

Extremely high tech process and use of exotic materials. Lots of carbon fiber parts. The electric motor fabrication is done in house and almost all done by robots.

[www.tv.com]




Tony