Re: Porsche has a couple of models with mesh. Those that didn't come with mesh I'd not fit...

I popped the front bumper this morning to cleanout the radiators and condensers for the first time in preparation for BRBS. I have seen how much debris can get collected in there watching the how to videos on YouTube, but I was still shocked how much crud was actually in there! A couple of hours well spent!

Chris - '01 Boxster - Seal Grey / Black / Black ; '87 944 Turbo (track beast) ; '86 944 - needs a new home!

I found and removed was considerable. (I have pics somewhere.) I do this every couple of years or have it done when I have one of the cars in for something else. It is very important to the longevity of the radiators (and condensers) to keep these areas clean.

As I have said before these cars with the radiator fans running are just big old hoovers sucking up anything that the wind or the vehicles ahead kick up. Every once in a while the owner has to empty the bag, so to speak.

Forgot to mention that I did install some mesh over the intakes that I bought cheap off of EBay before I remounted the bumper. This should cut down on the amount of debris somewhat but I still plan to perform a clean out every couple of years.

Without the bigger stuff, the "fluffier" stuff, the finer trash will compact and harden.

The mesh represents a considerable reduction in the duct opening. It is not that big to begin with. The mesh can also get blocked with a larger sheet of paper or plastic which means one radiator duct will not have any air flowing through it.

particularly at speed. Mesh is good and I have lost NO $1k condensers since installing...

I still plan regular cleanouts even with the mesh. I have noticed that the 981 rads / condenser are very exposed to road debris as compared to my 986 which have the rads tucked back out of the direct path somewhat.

I agree with using the screens to protecting the condensers from stone chips. In Fall, it also keeps the leaves out of there. I also noticed that the Cayman GT4 has screens instead of the strakes.

any. Air flow is affected by mesh since the mesh represents a reduction in area. Further at speed the turbulence created by the mesh decreases air flow. And as I covered mesh doesn't keep out all the stuff, just the larger stuff. The finer stuff still gets through and will build up and will have to be cleaned out. But the presence of the mesh gives the owner a false sense of security so this will not get done as often as it should be done.

As for the mesh protecting the condenser from rocks. Can't understand how some manage to lose a condenser this way. I've lost a windshield, had some pretty hard rock hits to the bumper cover, the hood, but I have not lost one condenser to a rock hit.

If my car lost a condenser to a rock I'd just mark it down as bad luck and move on. I'd no more fit mesh screens to the duct openings than try to put something on the windshield to protect it from rock hits.

The mesh does represent a trade off in airflow but you have to balance that against the reduction in cooling by ingesting larger objects and the extra protection against condenser damage (which I have seen on a few track cars). As long as I still maintain a regular cleanout schedule I think the mesh is worthwhile. Regardless it's easy to remove the grills if I notice any difference in temps.

It's just YOUR opinion. Don't try and give some BS answer about finer versus fluffier trash and opening then when debunked pivot elsewhere. We're talking loose mesh (85%+ open) and condensers and rads. Trade off in airflow/volume w/b minimal and these aren't jet engines...

Rocks, among other items, take out condensers and rads - all. the. time. Rocks being most prevalent and mesh certainly helps prevent them from not only being taken out but also accumulation of debris - also affecting their efficiency. One needs to continue being smart about vehicle maintenance regardless of mesh or not. Dollars to donuts I bet servicing for a car owned by individual A would constant w/ or w/o. Actually, if anything, w/ mesh might lead to more frequent maintenance. Readily seeing what gathers in area (and stopped by mesh ) might trigger subconsciously how much more gets by and therefore needs cleaned. I can tell you (all things considered) over equal mileage/conditions, the "stuff" b/w my condenser/rad behind mesh has been substantially less than w/o. And, knock wood, I haven't lost another condenser in this P-car since.

Now, condenser I lost in my DD SUV due to a perfect strike b/w fins from a mammoth-sized carpenter bee (true)... Yeah, I certainly chalked that up as bad luck and just moved on...

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Burg Boxster
It's just YOUR opinion. Don't try and give some BS answer about finer versus fluffier trash and opening then when debunked pivot elsewhere. We're talking loose mesh (85%+ open) and condensers and rads. Trade off in airflow/volume w/b minimal and these aren't jet engines...

Rocks, among other items, take out condensers and rads - all. the. time. Rocks being most prevalent and mesh certainly helps prevent them from not only being taken out but also accumulation of debris - also affecting their efficiency. One needs to continue being smart about vehicle maintenance regardless of mesh or not. Dollars to donuts I bet servicing for a car owned by individual A would constant w/ or w/o. Actually, if anything, w/ mesh might lead to more frequent maintenance. Readily seeing what gathers in area (and stopped by mesh ) might trigger subconsciously how much more gets by and therefore needs cleaned. I can tell you (all things considered) over equal mileage/conditions, the "stuff" b/w my condenser/rad behind mesh has been substantially less than w/o. And, knock wood, I haven't lost another condenser in this P-car since.

Now, condenser I lost in my DD SUV due to a perfect strike b/w fins from a mammoth-sized carpenter bee (true)... Yeah, I certainly chalked that up as bad luck and just moved on...

On the face of it your claim the cooling systems of the 997.1S and the 997.1 GT3 are not different is just wrong. The two cars have quite different power outputs and if the GT3 had the same cooling capacity at the lesser model it would overheat. The S produces 355hp @ 6600 RPM while the GT3 produces 409hp @ 7600 RPM.

Further, it is not my opinion regarding that fitting screens to the radiator openings is a bad idea. It is fact. Porsche in at least some of its documentation advises against fitting screens to the radiator openings.

It is thus your opinion, and counter to Porsche's, that fitting screens is ok.

While many are concerned about a reduction in cooling from the collection of trash in the ducts, this is more imagined that real. Even though my first radiator cleaning removed a considerable amount of trash the engine's cooling wasn't affected either before or after. The real benefit is removing the trash prevents corrosion of the condenser and radiator.

The reduction in surface area from fitting a screen can be substantial. It depends upon the wire size (diameter) and the spacing. There are charts which give the reduction in area and it can be on the order of 40%. If your choice of screen doesn't appear on the chart there is a formula.

While a few newer Porsche models come with screens I'm sure the car's aerodynamics and fan cooling stages and possibly other things are different.

At least one Porsche model, the GT2 I think, comes without a driver's side radiator fan. Are you going to remove your car's radiator fan because this one model has it missing?

My suggestion if you are experiencing damage to either the condenser or radiator from rocks instead of fitting screens you should just avoid following vehicles too close. Not only does this avoid condenser (or radiator) damage it also avoids rock hits to the other parts of the car.

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MarcW
On the face of it your claim the cooling systems of the 997.1S and the 997.1 GT3 are not different is just wrong. The two cars have quite different power outputs and if the GT3 had the same cooling capacity at the lesser model it would overheat. The S produces 355hp @ 6600 RPM while the GT3 produces 409hp @ 7600 RPM.

Are coolant capacities and L/R rad p/n same between? GT3 does have center rad - as can 997.1, properly equipped.

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MarcW
Further, it is not my opinion regarding that fitting screens to the radiator openings is a bad idea. It is fact. Porsche in at least some of its documentation advises against fitting screens to the radiator openings.

Previously it was your opinion - see above. Regardless, please provide link RE: 986, 987, 981, 997.1/2 and GT3-997.1/2 where no mesh s/b fitted, Thanks.

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MarcW
While many are concerned about a reduction in cooling from the collection of trash in the ducts, this is more imagined that real. Even though my first radiator cleaning removed a considerable amount of trash the engine's cooling wasn't affected either before or after. The real benefit is removing the trash prevents corrosion of the condenser and radiator.

Huh? Trash removal prevents corrosion which would adversely affect cooling efficiency. BUT, per you, prevention only occurs when trash is removed after it's been embedded in condenser & rad but not so by preventing from embedding. In summary, you are saying preventing 'trash' (of course the nice fluffy and/or loose kind - or whatever your argument was originally) from entering said area via mesh does NOT help; it's only when trash is removed after it entered does it prevent corrosion which prevents there from being a problem in cooling. Got it - appreciate your fine clarity.

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MarcW
The reduction in surface area from fitting a screen can be substantial. It depends upon the wire size (diameter) and the spacing. There are charts which give the reduction in area and it can be on the order of 40%. If your choice of screen doesn't appear on the chart there is a formula.

We agree...mostly. If you reduced OPENING by 40%, air flow and cooling capacity could, dependent on operating conditions, be substantially and adversely affected. Please provide link showing said 'chart'. Also, please show some advanced math where my recommended 85%+ open mesh equals reduction in area to 40%? Many thanks.

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Burg Boxster
...loose mesh (85%+ open) and condensers and rads. Trade off in airflow/volume w/b minimal...

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MarcW
While a few newer Porsche models come with screens I'm sure the car's aerodynamics and fan cooling stages and possibly other things are different.

As do some older models too... Let's define new v old via MY dates.

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MarcW
At least one Porsche model, the GT2 I think, comes without a driver's side radiator fan. Are you going to remove your car's radiator fan because this one model has it missing?

What? Why stop at GT2? Your pivot should be to 918 or 919 since each is oh so similar in architecture to NA Boxster (986/7/981) and 911 (996/7/991) of discussion...

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MarcW
My suggestion if you are experiencing damage to either the condenser or radiator from rocks instead of fitting screens you should just avoid following vehicles too close. Not only does this avoid condenser (or radiator) damage it also avoids rock hits to the other parts of the car.

Awesome - outstanding and extremely insightful. However, you forgot bee I mentioned. How can I avoid those? Please help???

Getting dizzy from your pivots yets?