In heavy rain it might be a good idea |  |  |
Expect the best, and accept no substitute. |
Products for your Boxster, Cayman and Carrera. |
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| Happy Campers (why wouldn;t we be?) grant - 8 years ago |
| Re: Happy Campers (why wouldn;t we be?) Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
| Don;t even get me started. grant - 8 years ago |
..too late. You did.
People don't drive, they expect the car to fix things for them.
When new drivers come to AX or the track, they:
sit improperly
hold the wheel improperly
don't look ahead
have no idea of traffic around them
cant do two things at once, unless both involve a phone
are rough with controls
except when you tell them to hit the brakes, at which point they act as if the pedal is made of delicate crystal
go fast where the track is slow
go slow where the track is fast
drive the same speed in the rain or on cold tires as they do when hot and dry (even notice how people drive in the snow?)
The fact that a car is a heavy, dangerous, mechanical device is now lost on people.
There is interesting data that when the government puts safety net entitlements under people - supplemental (hah!, anyone remember that name?) security for example, they stop or reduce preparing for self reliance. e.g.: Social security correlated to a drop in savings rates - the savings that it was supposed to supplement....
I suspect that airbags and safer cars make it ok to plow into walls; pedestrian impact regulations make it ok to run over kids.
/rant off
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
People don't drive, they expect the car to fix things for them.
When new drivers come to AX or the track, they:
sit improperly
hold the wheel improperly
don't look ahead
have no idea of traffic around them
cant do two things at once, unless both involve a phone
are rough with controls
except when you tell them to hit the brakes, at which point they act as if the pedal is made of delicate crystal
go fast where the track is slow
go slow where the track is fast
drive the same speed in the rain or on cold tires as they do when hot and dry (even notice how people drive in the snow?)
The fact that a car is a heavy, dangerous, mechanical device is now lost on people.
There is interesting data that when the government puts safety net entitlements under people - supplemental (hah!, anyone remember that name?) security for example, they stop or reduce preparing for self reliance. e.g.: Social security correlated to a drop in savings rates - the savings that it was supposed to supplement....
I suspect that airbags and safer cars make it ok to plow into walls; pedestrian impact regulations make it ok to run over kids.
/rant off
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Laz - 8 years ago |
| Re: Well said, Grant. +1 *NM* Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Quote
Guenter in Ontario
The part that disconcerting is how much people become reliant on all the electronic driving aids like blind spot monitoring. People rely on these and becomes less aware of what's going on around them.
Not even close to being accurate...even for an intransigent stuck in the past. I guess your electric starter is OK.
LANE CHANGE ASSIST ~ Blind Spot Monitor
I selected this option at the last minute, thinking it might be a good safety feature, even though I wasn't convinced it was all that necessary. Of course Silvia loved it. At first I didn't use it or even pay much attention to it. Having never "needed" it in the past, I figured it was just for people that don't know how to use mirrors and turn their necks. After a short time I started to realize how useful this information is and incorporated it into my driving SOP. There are blind spots with the Boxster, especially with the top up, and whether you are accustomed to weaving in and out of traffic in rush hour or are just making simple lane changes, LCA, is a valuable supplement to your other senses, especially if you have an open mind to new ideas. I can't believe how much I appreciate seeing those lights flashing and it's is a welcome safety feature. If it saves you from even one accident, it will be more than worth it. Skip the noisy exhaust, the bling rims or the racing suspension in a Boxster that's not tracked...and opt for LCA instead. Do NOT discount this option - it is bad advise and would be a mistake, seriously.
As g-man must realize by now, the older you get the less well you see, especially in the blind spots. LCA will help with that. Of course, when just driving for 1000's of congo line miles on sunny summer weekends, changing lanes isn't required.
Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come, be it PDK, LCA, or an electric starter.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
| Top up, hmmm, i'll have to try that sometime :-) *NM* grant - 8 years ago |
 *NM* Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
| To set the record straight... grant - 8 years ago |
| Top up? The Boxster has a top? *NM* Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
| Re: Happy Campers (why wouldn;t we be?) Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Quote
Gary in SoFL
Not even close to being accurate...even for an intransigent stuck in the past. I guess your electric starter is OK.
LANE CHANGE ASSIST ~ Blind Spot Monitor
I selected this option at the last minute, thinking it might be a good safety feature, even though I wasn't convinced it was all that necessary. Of course Silvia loved it. At first I didn't use it or even pay much attention to it. Having never "needed" it in the past, I figured it was just for people that don't know how to use mirrors and turn their necks. After a short time I started to realize how useful this information is and incorporated it into my driving SOP. There are blind spots with the Boxster, especially with the top up, and whether you are accustomed to weaving in and out of traffic in rush hour or are just making simple lane changes, LCA, is a valuable supplement to your other senses, especially if you have an open mind to new ideas. I can't believe how much I appreciate seeing those lights flashing and it's is a welcome safety feature. If it saves you from even one accident, it will be more than worth it. Skip the noisy exhaust, the bling rims or the racing suspension in a Boxster that's not tracked...and opt for LCA instead. Do NOT discount this option - it is bad advise and would be a mistake, seriously.
As g-man must realize by now, the older you get the less well you see, especially in the blind spots. LCA will help with that. Of course, when just driving for 1000's of congo line miles on sunny summer weekends, changing lanes isn't required.
Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come, be it PDK, LCA, or an electric starter.
I agree that blind Spot Monitor is a good idea for all (and there are way too many of them) those drivers who drive, totally oblivious to what's going on around them. Those two things stuck to the side of the door, really come in handy for a regular 360. Watch the road ahead. glance at the right rear view mirror, eyes back on the road, glance at the instruments, eyes on the road. check the rear view, eyes on road, left mirror. Obviously (although it seems not to most drivers) most of your time is spent watching the road ahead. Sure you might miss some text messages or emails, but you won't be surprised by that vehicle flying up behind you.
Specially on a long road trip, the 360 keeps you engaged in driving and as a bonus, it keeps you awake at the wheel.
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Quote
Guenter in Ontario
........but you won't be surprised by that vehicle flying up behind you..
Not only would I be surprised, I'd be shocked, if it were you!
Regarding the LCA you neither possess nor seem to know anything about:
“In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted.”
~ Bertrand Russell
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
| Re: Happy Campers (why wouldn;t we be?) Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Quote
Gary in SoFL
Quote
Guenter in Ontario
........but you won't be surprised by that vehicle flying up behind you..
Not only would I be surprised, I'd be shocked, if it were you!
Regarding the LCA you neither possess nor seem to know anything about:
“In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted.”
~ Bertrand Russell
You've made my point - twice.
I still say that if a driver is doing the 360. He'll know what's going on. I don't see how 4 dots on a mirror are more visible than a vehicle in the rear view mirror. The driver in this video should not have been surprised that there was a motorcycle behind him if he/she was driving properly.
[www.porsche.com]
| An interesting story.... grant - 8 years ago |
At DEs, as i noted, one thing new drivers' discover is that they are overwhelmed by the processing load of a) driving fast, b) learning the track, c) learning the flag stations, and d) watching traffic around them. Its one of the primary reasons that novices give so few passing signals - they are overwhelmed and either dont see traffic or are fearful to complicate matters.
Periodically we get novices who are retired Air Force or Navy (or Marine or...) Pilots. For some mysterious reason (no, not really) they seem to find this situational awareness pretty simple, and are comfortable with high rates of closing speeds. So i maintain that much of our inability to see what's going on here and there is a lack of training and attention.
Thai does not fix a true blind spot, but 95% of the time, an object in your blind spot was NOT in it moments ago, and should have been noted entering it, and not emerging the other side. We can safely assume it is still there, and not abducted by aliens.
I also have two blind spot investigation devices, they protrude from my doors, near where the joint the car. Imperfect, yes, but generally not used when they can do the job. Bogey at 5 o'clock folks!
G
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Periodically we get novices who are retired Air Force or Navy (or Marine or...) Pilots. For some mysterious reason (no, not really) they seem to find this situational awareness pretty simple, and are comfortable with high rates of closing speeds. So i maintain that much of our inability to see what's going on here and there is a lack of training and attention.
Thai does not fix a true blind spot, but 95% of the time, an object in your blind spot was NOT in it moments ago, and should have been noted entering it, and not emerging the other side. We can safely assume it is still there, and not abducted by aliens.
I also have two blind spot investigation devices, they protrude from my doors, near where the joint the car. Imperfect, yes, but generally not used when they can do the job. Bogey at 5 o'clock folks!
G
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
MikenOH - 8 years ago |
Quote
grant
At DEs, as i noted, one thing new drivers' discover is that they are overwhelmed by the processing load of a) driving fast, b) learning the track, c) learning the flag stations, and d) watching traffic around them. Its one of the primary reasons that novices give so few passing signals - they are overwhelmed and either dont see traffic or are fearful to complicate matters.
Periodically we get novices who are retired Air Force or Navy (or Marine or...) Pilots. For some mysterious reason (no, not really) they seem to find this situational awareness pretty simple, and are comfortable with high rates of closing speeds. So i maintain that much of our inability to see what's going on here and there is a lack of training and attention.
Thai does not fix a true blind spot, but 95% of the time, an object in your blind spot was NOT in it moments ago, and should have been noted entering it, and not emerging the other side. We can safely assume it is still there, and not abducted by aliens.
I also have two blind spot investigation devices, they protrude from my doors, near where the joint the car. Imperfect, yes, but generally not used when they can do the job. Bogey at 5 o'clock folks!
G
Excellent points.
After doing DEs for a while I've gotten used to repetative mirror checks on the street just because it's become part of my normal driving style. I can't tell you how many speeders I've noticed coming up on my left side at warp speeds on Interstates well in advance of their passing as a result of getting into this routine.
| Re: An interesting story.... Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Quote
MikenOH
Excellent points.
After doing DEs for a while I've gotten used to repetative mirror checks on the street just because it's become part of my normal driving style. I can't tell you how many speeders I've noticed coming up on my left side at warp speeds on Interstates well in advance of their passing as a result of getting into this routine.
When I learned how to drive, I was taught the 360, as the instructor called it. That way, you know what's going on around you. In an emergency situation, you know where there's an escape route. These days, cars need collision avoidance systems to warn the driver that there's a truck in front of them. Fortunately, I was born with 2 avoidance detection devises, one on either side of my nose.
Just another example, here in Canada, cars have had DRL's since 1991. Surprising sometimes when you look around at other drivers on a 4 lane lighted road. After dark (I'm not talking about dusk), they don't turn on their full headlights - no tail lights and their instrument cluster is totally dark. No wonder they don't know what speed they're going.
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
| 4 dots on the mirror Roger987 - 8 years ago |
My Audi has blind spot assist, or whatever Audi calls it. I can turn it on or off. I have yet to turn it on and leave it on.
I simply make sure my mirrors are adjusted correctly, so that I can see cars coming along the side of my car. Most people have the mirrors adjusted to see the side of their own car, which is odd, given they're not likely to run into themselves.
My Audi also has back-up sensors and a back-up cam. I like the camera, as it enables me to back up closer to an object (for instance, my lawn mower) than I would otherwise be able to. But it doesn't replace mirrors, or for that matter, looking over my shoulder, to see out the back window.
A driver actively engaged in driving is becoming a rare phenomenon. I sound my horn when I overtake a car. It's amazing how many drivers are startled to discover there was a car behind them.
I simply make sure my mirrors are adjusted correctly, so that I can see cars coming along the side of my car. Most people have the mirrors adjusted to see the side of their own car, which is odd, given they're not likely to run into themselves.
My Audi also has back-up sensors and a back-up cam. I like the camera, as it enables me to back up closer to an object (for instance, my lawn mower) than I would otherwise be able to. But it doesn't replace mirrors, or for that matter, looking over my shoulder, to see out the back window.
A driver actively engaged in driving is becoming a rare phenomenon. I sound my horn when I overtake a car. It's amazing how many drivers are startled to discover there was a car behind them.
Laz - 8 years ago |
they could also have their audio up super loud. There could be a better chance they'll notice flashing lights in one of their mirrors even if they're texting. (Peripheral vision, hopefully.) This is especially useful when that vehicle is wandering out of lane, maybe "considering" a lane change.
| I believe the "4 dots." refers to the ones Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
On the side of the mirror that light up when there is a car in the blind spot. Option available on Macan and probably the Cayanne.
I just don't see the point. If you're not watching the mirrors, how are you supposed to see the dots? If you're watching the mirrors and have them set properly I don't see how there should be any cars magically appearing out of "nowhere". Darn aliens.
I just don't see the point. If you're not watching the mirrors, how are you supposed to see the dots? If you're watching the mirrors and have them set properly I don't see how there should be any cars magically appearing out of "nowhere". Darn aliens.
and pretty soon they won't exist either.
Porsche is toying with the idea of doing away with side mirrors, replacing them with small cameras that would provide rear views on the dash's screen.
This saves on the Panamera 1.5 MPGs by reducing drag.
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Porsche is toying with the idea of doing away with side mirrors, replacing them with small cameras that would provide rear views on the dash's screen.
This saves on the Panamera 1.5 MPGs by reducing drag.
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
If Porsche (or anyone else) could develop a 3 camera system that combines images to show what's on either side of the car and behind. That would be a terrific feature.
Take a camera mounted forward on each front fender, like the old British cars used to have, plus a trunk/rear window camera (could be combined with the 3rd stop light). Combine those feeds into one image would likely be the optimum design. It would be great to see all that in one image while driving.
Of course, we'd still have to teach drivers to glance at it at regular intervals. It's the nut behind the wheel that is the weak link.
When my dad taught me how to drive (that was in pre side view mirror days), every once in a while, he'd suddenly cover up the rear view mirror and ask me what colour or what kind the car behind us was. It was all part of the learning experience.
Take a camera mounted forward on each front fender, like the old British cars used to have, plus a trunk/rear window camera (could be combined with the 3rd stop light). Combine those feeds into one image would likely be the optimum design. It would be great to see all that in one image while driving.
Of course, we'd still have to teach drivers to glance at it at regular intervals. It's the nut behind the wheel that is the weak link.
When my dad taught me how to drive (that was in pre side view mirror days), every once in a while, he'd suddenly cover up the rear view mirror and ask me what colour or what kind the car behind us was. It was all part of the learning experience.
Quote
Guenter in Ontario
....When my dad taught me how to drive (that was in pre side view mirror days), every once in a while, he'd suddenly cover up the rear view mirror and ask me what colour or what kind the car behind us was. It was all part of the learning experience.
Didn't know that rear view mirrors came with horse-drawn or donkey-drawn carriages....
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Laz - 8 years ago |
Laz - 8 years ago |
Saw the first run release of 2001: A Space Odyssey at the Ziegfeld in Manhattan. Cinerama, along with Altec Voice of the Theater loudspeakers, and the mind-blowing nature of the film, was quite an experience.
[upload.wikimedia.org]
[jazzinsideandout.com]
[media.giphy.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2015 01:53PM by Laz. (view changes)
[upload.wikimedia.org]
[jazzinsideandout.com]
[media.giphy.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/29/2015 01:53PM by Laz. (view changes)
I agree they work and coudl be useful. Its the side effects that bother me. Clearly not in your case, but too often they lead to complacency and even ignorance of the proper base methods.
beyond that they cost money, complicate cars and repairs.
But the basic technology is wonderful.
There are a small number of innovations that were disliked or distrusted when new, but have proven to be nearly vice-less benefits, among them:
- catalytic converters and oxygen -% feedback control of mixture (EFI)
- Air bags
- seatbelts
- ABS (pretty sure i would NOT put stability control on this list)
- i'm running out of list.....
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
beyond that they cost money, complicate cars and repairs.
But the basic technology is wonderful.
There are a small number of innovations that were disliked or distrusted when new, but have proven to be nearly vice-less benefits, among them:
- catalytic converters and oxygen -% feedback control of mixture (EFI)
- Air bags
- seatbelts
- ABS (pretty sure i would NOT put stability control on this list)
- i'm running out of list.....
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
| and mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC - 8 years ago |
fan powered heaters not to mention temperature controlled ones
defrosters
gas tank fillers not right in front of the windshield
fixed windshields that actually sealed
wipers, multi-speed and intermittent
steel roofs
steel wheels
radial tires
syncros
electric start
12 volt systems
turn signals
seat belts
door locks
just thinking back to some of the cars I have driven or owned...
defrosters
gas tank fillers not right in front of the windshield
fixed windshields that actually sealed
wipers, multi-speed and intermittent
steel roofs
steel wheels
radial tires
syncros
electric start
12 volt systems
turn signals
seat belts
door locks
just thinking back to some of the cars I have driven or owned...
Drove a 335i and 428ix. Lots of technology on these cars including this option package for $2K:
[www.bmw.com]
The "Active Driving Assistant" package included the LCA triangles on the mirrors, active cruise control, "lane departure warning" system (falling asleep--heading off the road), "City Collision Mitigation/Pedestrian Mitigation" --slowing the car, priming the brakes using camera systems; the number of cameras and attendant accident avoidance systems was stunning
Add to that a TFT display on the windshield of speed,speed limit, nav info and collision warnings and you have a lot going on with on-board electronic systems, either trying to keep you out of the weeds or from hurting somebody else.
I looked at all this stuff and the iDrive system and felt bit overwhelmed, relative to our "analog" 328i. Some of it made sense to help you avoid the obvious--I liked the cameras that gave you a side or rear look to help you avoid getting hit while opening door or pulling out of a parking spot, but there are so many systems it made me wonder if it would too much for the average buyer if user interaction is required.
Couldn't help but think that the mere notion of having these systems onboard might give an excuse to those inclined to be less engaged in their driving than they should be.
BTW, the 428 Grand Coupe is a great looking car, but anybody over 6' in the rear seat is going to find the headroom tight. Likewise, the 428ix at 3800 lbs seemed a bit under powered for the 2.0l turbo.
[www.bmw.com]
The "Active Driving Assistant" package included the LCA triangles on the mirrors, active cruise control, "lane departure warning" system (falling asleep--heading off the road), "City Collision Mitigation/Pedestrian Mitigation" --slowing the car, priming the brakes using camera systems; the number of cameras and attendant accident avoidance systems was stunning
Add to that a TFT display on the windshield of speed,speed limit, nav info and collision warnings and you have a lot going on with on-board electronic systems, either trying to keep you out of the weeds or from hurting somebody else.
I looked at all this stuff and the iDrive system and felt bit overwhelmed, relative to our "analog" 328i. Some of it made sense to help you avoid the obvious--I liked the cameras that gave you a side or rear look to help you avoid getting hit while opening door or pulling out of a parking spot, but there are so many systems it made me wonder if it would too much for the average buyer if user interaction is required.
Couldn't help but think that the mere notion of having these systems onboard might give an excuse to those inclined to be less engaged in their driving than they should be.
BTW, the 428 Grand Coupe is a great looking car, but anybody over 6' in the rear seat is going to find the headroom tight. Likewise, the 428ix at 3800 lbs seemed a bit under powered for the 2.0l turbo.
| Re: Happy Campers (why wouldn;t we be?) Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
| Re: Happy Campers (why wouldn;t we be?) Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
| Re: Happy Campers (why wouldn;t we be?) Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
Quote
Gary in SoFL
They don't offer them in the Boxster or Cayman. I knew someone would catch that, but we were discussing the fine Porsche Leipzig product, which does offer it.
Good catch, Mike.
Actually I wish they did. The right rear vision on a Boxster is pretty bad with he top up and it wouldn't hurt to have some confirmation that something hasn't sneaked into the blind spot.
Even with the top down it can be dicey blending into traffic. Specifically, near me there's a downhill left entrance lane to a multi-lane road that I now avoid because the car's downward approach angle exacerbates the lack of visibility. I felt it was only a matter of time before I'd be in a collision, and not having the right of way, at fault to boot, so I've changed my route so as to come in at a different, level, right lane entrance.
Laz - 8 years ago |
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Good point, but a fair bet since the name was offered by an inscrutable source. 
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2015 11:43AM by Gary in SoFL. (view changes)
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2015 11:43AM by Gary in SoFL. (view changes)
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