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| If this is true, it's bad news Roger987 - 8 years ago |
The loss of the flat 6 symphony will be bad enough - but not to be offset by a significant increase in performance - it's hard to believe Porsche would do that, especially when others (e.g BMW) are making more power from their turbo 4's than they made from their naturally aspirated inline sixes. Audi's new four will provide more power than its current four (about 25 hp's and 25 'torques')
I would not be surprised to learn that C&D's numbers are wrong.
[blog.caranddriver.com]
[www.automobilemag.com]
I would not be surprised to learn that C&D's numbers are wrong.
[blog.caranddriver.com]
[www.automobilemag.com]
| Re: If this is true, it's bad news Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Quote
Roger987
The loss of the flat 6 symphony will be bad enough - but not to be offset by a significant increase in performance - it's hard to believe Porsche would do that, especially when others (e.g BMW) are making more power from their turbo 4's than they made from their naturally aspirated inline sixes. Audi's new four will provide more power than its current four (about 25 hp's and 25 'torques')
I would not be surprised to learn that C&D's numbers are wrong.
[blog.caranddriver.com]
[www.automobilemag.com]
Car Magazine had the same numbers quoted. A bit surprised that they'd come out with three versions right away. Normally, a GTS version isn't introduced until a few years after the original design is introduced.
If those numbers are correct, maybe Porsche is just trying to dump the Boxster/Cayman. That's what it feels like.
| Re: If this is true, it's bad news Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
Quote
Guenter in Ontario
Quote
Roger987
If those numbers are correct, maybe Porsche is just trying to dump the Boxster/Cayman. That's what it feels like.
I really doubt that. If they planned to dump it, they would just stop changing it and just let the present version run its course. Why would you spend substantial money and energy redesigning the Boxster for a new engine to make something worse so people would not buy it.
CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
MikenOH - 8 years ago |
Quote
boxtaboy
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.
Very true, but the 981 ECU has been difficult to crack--Softronic has had the "coming soon" moniker on the 981 version for roughly 2 years now:
[www.softronicsoftware.com]
Can't help but think Porsche has decided to get serious about non-stock HP additions and a buttoned-up ECU will limit any future bumps.
CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
Quote
MikenOH
Quote
boxtaboy
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.
Very true, but the 981 ECU has been difficult to crack--Softronic has had the "coming soon" moniker on the 981 version for roughly 2 years now:
[www.softronicsoftware.com]
Can't help but think Porsche has decided to get serious about non-stock HP additions and a buttoned-up ECU will limit any future bumps.
You may be right, but to be honest, I don't think softronic could extract meaningful gains from a non turbo engine anyway. It's the turbo where the boost levels can be programmed to exceed stock levels and gain power easily. For example, my APR tuned Audi allows max of 20psi of boost vs stock of 10...all from a simple reflash at the OBD port, not having to open up the ECU. Whether the tuners can crack the code to get in, quite possible that'll be a problem if Porsche finds a way to button that up.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2015 03:14PM by boxtaboy. (view changes)
I've done a fair bit of research on performance software. I starting 'chipping' my engines with an E36 325i, back in the day when it actually meant I had to take the ECU apart and physically replace a computer chip with a modified one. This was way back, when Jim Conforti was modifying chips in his basement, and just beginning to build a customer base. Eventually, of course, he teamed with Turner Motorsport. Jim was THE man. But I digress.
My observations:
1. Bigger gains can be realized with a turbo engine. This is because the software will increase boost.
2. Increase boost enough, and the pistons will depart the engine. In pieces.
3. The actual honest-to-god performance gain is NEVER as large as the tuner asserts. In fact, more honest tuners will use expressions like 'gains of up to XX h.p.' A gain of even 1 h.p. comes within that description.
4. Anyone who thinks he can modify the engine software tuning with impunity, in terms of impairing/losing/voiding warranty, is not well-informed. google 'Audi TD1 flag'. Yes, maybe in a court of law, Audi would have to prove your tune caused or contributed to the engine failure, but, really, no one person has pockets deep enough to take on Audi in court.
[www.audiworld.com]
In the end, against the increased performance of software modification, one has to consider warranty implications, and long-term effects on the engine. As to the latter, frequent oil changes, and judicious use of that extra power, will help.
I'd sooner Porsche give me the extra power up front, with full warranty.
quote=boxtaboy]
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.[/quote]
My observations:
1. Bigger gains can be realized with a turbo engine. This is because the software will increase boost.
2. Increase boost enough, and the pistons will depart the engine. In pieces.
3. The actual honest-to-god performance gain is NEVER as large as the tuner asserts. In fact, more honest tuners will use expressions like 'gains of up to XX h.p.' A gain of even 1 h.p. comes within that description.
4. Anyone who thinks he can modify the engine software tuning with impunity, in terms of impairing/losing/voiding warranty, is not well-informed. google 'Audi TD1 flag'. Yes, maybe in a court of law, Audi would have to prove your tune caused or contributed to the engine failure, but, really, no one person has pockets deep enough to take on Audi in court.
[www.audiworld.com]
In the end, against the increased performance of software modification, one has to consider warranty implications, and long-term effects on the engine. As to the latter, frequent oil changes, and judicious use of that extra power, will help.
I'd sooner Porsche give me the extra power up front, with full warranty.
quote=boxtaboy]
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.[/quote]
CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
[/quote]Quote
Roger987
I've done a fair bit of research on performance software. I starting 'chipping' my engines with an E36 325i, back in the day when it actually meant I had to take the ECU apart and physically replace a computer chip with a modified one. This was way back, when Jim Conforti was modifying chips in his basement, and just beginning to build a customer base. Eventually, of course, he teamed with Turner Motorsport. Jim was THE man. But I digress.
My observations:
1. Bigger gains can be realized with a turbo engine. This is because the software will increase boost.
2. Increase boost enough, and the pistons will depart the engine. In pieces.
3. The actual honest-to-god performance gain is NEVER as large as the tuner asserts. In fact, more honest tuners will use expressions like 'gains of up to XX h.p.' A gain of even 1 h.p. comes within that description.
4. Anyone who thinks he can modify the engine software tuning with impunity, in terms of impairing/losing/voiding warranty, is not well-informed. google 'Audi TD1 flag'. Yes, maybe in a court of law, Audi would have to prove your tune caused or contributed to the engine failure, but, really, no one person has pockets deep enough to take on Audi in court.
[www.audiworld.com]
In the end, against the increased performance of software modification, one has to consider warranty implications, and long-term effects on the engine. As to the latter, frequent oil changes, and judicious use of that extra power, will help.
I'd sooner Porsche give me the extra power up front, with full warranty.
quote=boxtaboy]
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.
Agree for the most part. My Audi dealership actually performed my APR tune, as they offer it in their service department. The car now feels like a whole new car, and I know of folks who have over 200k miles and still running on these stage 1 tunes, as they've been around for a while. You do have to maintain the car, of course, and parts may fail at a faster rate than left stock, but totally worth it to me. I can now outrun the newer modeled A4s, and have, and the tune also removes the speed limiter. I can also switch between tuned and stock modes when the wifey drives it (although I found out she even prefers the tuned mode)... Link below...
[www.goapr.com]
There's only 27k miles on it now, so I'll let y'all know if the engine blows up!
Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2015 04:24PM by boxtaboy. (view changes)
| Re: ECU tunes Roger987 - 8 years ago |
[/quote]Quote
boxtaboy
quote=boxtaboy]
With turbos though, you can gain quite a bit from an ECU tune. I picked up 41hp and 85 torque from a simple Stage 1 flash on my daily commuter Audi.
Agree for the most part. My Audi dealership actually performed my APR tune, as they offer it in their service department. The car now feels like a whole new car, and I know of folks who have over 200k miles and still running on these stage 1 tunes, as they've been around for a while. You do have to maintain the car, of course, and parts may fail at a faster rate than left stock, but totally worth it to me. I can now outrun the newer modeled A4s, and have, and the tune also removes the speed limiter. I can also switch between tuned and stock modes when the wifey drives it (although I found out she even prefers the tuned mode)...
There's only 27k miles on it now, so I'll let y'all know if the engine blows up!
I think you understand I'm not opposed to ECU tunes.
There are Audi affiliated shops In Ontario, for example, who will do ECU tunes. I spoke with highly reputable one before I bought my Allroad, last fall. They made it absolutely clear - modify the ECU to alter engine performance, and the warranty is void.
You mention outrunning 'newer A4's'; I infer your warranty has already expired.
There's no doubt that there are significant gains to be had with ECU mod's to a Turbo car. There's also no doubt that Audi will void the warranty, if their computer detects the modification. The TD1 code will be issued and enforced by the mothership - the local dealer will have no discretion.
I'm not saying don't do it, under any circumstance.
But this thread is about the soon-to-be launched turbo-4 Boxster. Mess with a new Porsche's ECU, to modify engine performance, and Porsche can, and most likely will, walk away from the Porsche warranty. And that's a big decision when it relates to an brand new, under-warranty, $80-100k Porsche.
CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
Yep, sorry if my post took this thread in another direction. When I asked my dealer about any warranty claims, they actually told me that they'd just need to reflash to OEM stock and it'd be ok. Lol. Whatever... didn't matter to me cause I'm out of warranty now. What I don't get is how I see folks tune their newer S4s and such (which produce huge gains of over 100hp and torque) and also are a bit higher up in the price range and not care about the warranty issue either, although I've read there's still ways to get around the TD1 scan. For some, stock is never enough, although honestly, with the experience I am having now with the tune, I'd def do it again in the future with any turbo powered car. It's just too easy for loads more power.
It is a shame about the loss of the naturally aspirated flat sixes though. Just that turbos are the way of the future given the fuel economy requirements these days. Not sure why Porsche owners would really care about fuel economy though.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2015 05:55PM by boxtaboy. (view changes)
It is a shame about the loss of the naturally aspirated flat sixes though. Just that turbos are the way of the future given the fuel economy requirements these days. Not sure why Porsche owners would really care about fuel economy though.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2015 05:55PM by boxtaboy. (view changes)
| Re: If this is true, it's bad news Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
Hope that is not true. It is contrary to everything that has been reported earlier (mostly rumors), and even contrary to some public statements made by Porsche officials a couple of times. If it is true, there is no doubt that my 981 will remaining with me for a long time!
Lawdevil
2013 Boxster S - Agate Grey,
2016 Macan Turbo - jet black
Cashiers, NC & Atlanta
Lawdevil
2013 Boxster S - Agate Grey,
2016 Macan Turbo - jet black
Cashiers, NC & Atlanta
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
One thing I say say for sure is that there are only about 50 ordered Cayman S's in the pipeline in the entire USA with another 6 floating around un-allocated. No new allotments anticipated for months, maybe till the end of the year, and after that who knows. There is something going on at Porsche. We'll be seeing four banger turbos very soon, and who knows if the 6MT will be available with them.
On the other hand, the Jag F-Type is now being offered with a manual transmission. That worm has certainly turned.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2015 04:52PM by Gary in SoFL. (view changes)
On the other hand, the Jag F-Type is now being offered with a manual transmission. That worm has certainly turned.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2015 04:52PM by Gary in SoFL. (view changes)
MikenOH - 8 years ago |
Quote
Gary in SoFL
One thing I say say for sure is that there are only about 50 ordered Cayman S's in the pipeline in the entire USA with another 6 floating around un-allocated. No new allotments anticipated for months, maybe till the end of the year, and after that who knows. There is something going on at Porsche. We'll be seeing four banger turbos very soon, and who knows if the 6MT will be available with them.
On the other hand, the Jag F-Type is now being offered with a manual transmission. That worm has certainly turned.
Agreed--something seems to be changing at Porsche with regards to where the 981 platform fits in the grand scheme of things, based on the projected power outputs on these new turbo motors. The first thought is Porsche is trying to put more distance between the B/C platform and the 911 in terms of HP and hoping buyers won't notice much.
On a slightly different topic--heat management with turbos in mid-engine cars:
I'm sure Porsche has spent lots of deelopment time dealing with the extra heat a turbo adds to the engine compartment, but given this is a mid-engine car with a cramped engine compartment and limited fresh air inlets/hot air outlets I wonder if the typical heat-soak of turbo cars will sink performance with heavy use of boost at DE events?
IIRC, the MR2 was a mid-engine with both supercharged and turbo powerplants; was overheating ever an issue on this car?
| Re: If this is true, it's bad news Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
It appears from another article I read this is true - BUT the GTS will offer 370 hp. Further, the article said that forthe first ime the Cayman will be cheaper than the Boxster.[www.autoguide.com]
Lawdevil
2013 Boxster S - Agate Grey,
2016 Macan Turbo - jet black
Cashiers, NC & Atlanta
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2015 08:04PM by Lawdevil & CURVN8R. (view changes)
Lawdevil
2013 Boxster S - Agate Grey,
2016 Macan Turbo - jet black
Cashiers, NC & Atlanta
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2015 08:04PM by Lawdevil & CURVN8R. (view changes)
| Re: If this is true, it's bad news joris - 8 years ago |
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Quote
joris
To make sure that I can enjoy the symphony in flat six for many years to come I ordered a new S, delivery Oct/Nov 2015. My 987.2 (June 2009, 95k km) is in perfect state, but I expect the new S to serve me six more years than my current 987
Was it tough for your dealer to find an S allocation? Cayman S allocations are but non-existent. I assume Boxster S allocations are about the same. Lots of us who appreciate what these cars have been are ordering new ones before the engine changeover.
While I'm in awe of Porsche marketing cleverness from a business perspective, I'm distrustful of that same cleverness as a consumer. Their pricing structure, sky high option costs, and bundled packages is somewhere between predatory and brilliant.
If the rumors, leaks, and stories are to be believed, cylinders & horsepower are down, prices may increase, engine music will be artificial, crappy GPS and MFD display will be better, Caymans will cost less than Boxsters, the body will look much the same.....and the 981 will be different.
Porsche rarely makes changes without improving the breed, but I don't know about this one, even considering the quote by Ferry Porsche, “Change is easy, but improvement far more difficult”.
I may jump on the bandwagon myself, this week, with a Halloween delivery time frame like the one you have.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
 *NM* Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
MikenOH - 8 years ago |
Quote
Gary in SoFL
Quote
joris
To make sure that I can enjoy the symphony in flat six for many years to come I ordered a new S, delivery Oct/Nov 2015. My 987.2 (June 2009, 95k km) is in perfect state, but I expect the new S to serve me six more years than my current 987
Was it tough for your dealer to find an S allocation? Cayman S allocations are but non-existent. I assume Boxster S allocations are about the same. Lots of us who appreciate what these cars have been are ordering new ones before the engine changeover.
While I'm in awe of Porsche marketing cleverness from a business perspective, I'm distrustful of that same cleverness as a consumer. Their pricing structure, sky high option costs, and bundled packages is somewhere between predatory and brilliant.
If the rumors, leaks, and stories are to be believed, cylinders & horsepower are down, prices may increase, engine music will be artificial, crappy GPS and MFD display will be better, Caymans will cost less than Boxsters, the body will look much the same.....and the 981 will be different.
Porsche rarely makes changes without improving the breed, but I don't know about this one, even considering the quote by Ferry Porsche, “Change is easy, but improvement far more difficult”.
I may jump on the bandwagon myself, this week, with a Halloween delivery time frame like the one you have.
Regarding availability of 2016 models, this is starting to look like what was going on when the 981 was going to be introduced--few 2012MY 987.2 cars built in anticipation of the new car. That would seem to make the notion a getting an allocation for the 981.1 in the remaining part of this year problematic if they intend to build fewer of the 981.1 cars in 4th qtr 2015 compared to the previous year. Wonder when the 981.2 will actually start production?
| Re: If this is true, it's bad news joris - 8 years ago |
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
that they had to do some horse trading to get in the first place. I did get a call from the other dealer in ATL that they had a couple of Boxster/Cayman GTS slots available.
I finally have some better idea of dates. Very conservatively build will be complete by early October and arrive at US Port mid November and at dealer around Thanksgiving. Very likely will be sooner than that. Waiting........
I finally have some better idea of dates. Very conservatively build will be complete by early October and arrive at US Port mid November and at dealer around Thanksgiving. Very likely will be sooner than that. Waiting........
| Re: Stopped by the dealer today..... No other GTS allocation besides mine Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
Which dealer is that? I got word Friday from Henessy that my Macan has been built and is now waiting for a ship. My guess is it will be here in of August - although we wan't be back from europe until September 10 to pick it up.
Lawdevil
2013 Boxster S - Agate Grey,
2016 Macan Turbo - jet black
Cashiers, NC & Atlanta
Lawdevil
2013 Boxster S - Agate Grey,
2016 Macan Turbo - jet black
Cashiers, NC & Atlanta
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Quote
Lawdevil & CURVN8R
Which dealer is that? I got word Friday from Henessy that my Macan has been built and is now waiting for a ship. My guess is it will be here in of August - although we wan't be back from europe until September 10 to pick it up.
Your Macan got in before the summer shut down, Mike. Hope they weren't rushing to leave, on the production floor.
I can pick it up for you while your vacationing, once again, in Europe. The Macan will be totally 'broken in' by the time you get back.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
| Same one you are using..... *NM* jg wnc - 8 years ago |
| Re: If this is true, it's bad news Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Quote
Gary in SoFL
If the rumors, leaks, and stories are to be believed, cylinders & horsepower are down, prices may increase, engine music will be artificial, crappy GPS and MFD display will be better, Caymans will cost less than Boxsters, the body will look much the same.....and the 981 will be different.
I may jump on the bandwagon myself, this week, with a Halloween delivery time frame like the one you have.
I agree with most of what you're saying, Gary.
If these latest rumours are true, the Cayman will finally be priced less than the Boxster, which it should have been all along, simply because it's got to cost more for the convertible top and mechanism than what it does to weld a steel roof onto the car.
If this 3 model version (base, S and GTS) is correct. That's a departure from the past when new models were introduced. That makes me think that:
- the Boxster with it's less powerful 240 HP engine will be the entry level convertible priced at less than the current Boxster
- the Boxster S will cost about what today's 265 HP Boxster does and be similar in content, but with the 300 HP turbo 4 engine
- the Boxster GTS will be price about the same as the current Boxster S, so going from 315 to 370 HP
The same of course would go for the Cayman lineup, except they would be less expensive than the equivalent Boxster models.
By making those changes, Porsche would be showing that the new models are "better" than the current models (when you just go by the HP number)
I saw one interview where Muller had said that there is a good chance that if the 4 banger turbo (not his terminology) goes over well in the Boxster / Cayman, the 911 will also eventually go to 4 banger turbos.
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Aluminum roofs, not steel g-man, must cost more than rag tops.
So they hold the price of the Cayman and increase the price of the Boxster. Proves nothing, and how many times has Porsche reduced the price of any model?
If they raise the price of the Boxster, to exceed the price of the Cayman, they should give the Boxster a few more horses.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
So they hold the price of the Cayman and increase the price of the Boxster. Proves nothing, and how many times has Porsche reduced the price of any model?
If they raise the price of the Boxster, to exceed the price of the Cayman, they should give the Boxster a few more horses.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
| Re: If this is true, it's bad news Roger987 - 8 years ago |
Quote
Guenter in Ontario
If these latest rumours are true, the Cayman will finally be priced less than the Boxster, which it should have been all along, simply because it's got to cost more for the convertible top and mechanism than what it does to weld a steel roof onto the car.
If this 3 model version (base, S and GTS) is correct. That's a departure from the past when new models were introduced. That makes me think that:
- the Boxster with it's less powerful 240 HP engine will be the entry level convertible priced at less than the current Boxster
- the Boxster S will cost about what today's 265 HP Boxster does and be similar in content, but with the 300 HP turbo 4 engine
- the Boxster GTS will be price about the same as the current Boxster S, so going from 315 to 370 HP
Guenter, that scenario is quite plausible.
One aspect I didn't mention in my original post, is torque. With turbo engines, torque is often the more impressive number.
For instance, in the link below, torque of 295 lb ft is suggested for the 2 litre turbo 4 (the medium engine). That would be a very substantial increase from the current 2.7 (206) and even the Boxster S 3.4 (266)
I would imagine Porsche will make sure that torque is available from low rpms, and that the engine will still rev freely.
If BMW can do it, Porsche can do it.... better.
[www.carmagazine.co.uk]
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Four banger turbo's have been around for a long time and Porsche has as much experience making them as anybody, so it's fair to expect the new engines will be OK, and as an added benefit, they won't have an IMS.
But they'll never be as smooth as a NA boxer 6 engine, turbo or not. It's all about the mechanics of firing the cylinders and the movement/balance of the pistons.
If, and that's a BIG IF, Porsche lowers prices across the 981.2 line, it's only because they recognize the new offerings won't be as desirable, marketable or as good as the current one. They will be going 'down-market', not their usual style, but they already have a bit with their much reduced interior options. We should know soon, maybe by the late September Frankfurt auto show.
Better order your new, base, NA, 981.1 before ALL allocations are gone and it's too late, Roger.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
But they'll never be as smooth as a NA boxer 6 engine, turbo or not. It's all about the mechanics of firing the cylinders and the movement/balance of the pistons.
If, and that's a BIG IF, Porsche lowers prices across the 981.2 line, it's only because they recognize the new offerings won't be as desirable, marketable or as good as the current one. They will be going 'down-market', not their usual style, but they already have a bit with their much reduced interior options. We should know soon, maybe by the late September Frankfurt auto show.
Better order your new, base, NA, 981.1 before ALL allocations are gone and it's too late, Roger.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
MikenOH - 8 years ago |
Quote
Gary in SoFL
If, and that's a BIG IF, Porsche lowers prices across the 981.2 line, it's only because they recognize the new offerings won't be as desirable, marketable or as good as the current one. They will be going 'down-market', not their usual style, but they already have a bit with their much reduced interior options. We should know soon, maybe by the late September Frankfurt auto show.
Better order your new, base, NA, 981.1 before ALL allocations are gone and it's too late, Roger.
Agreed--while it is a possible path Porsche might take, lowering prices on one of their models hasn't been in their marketing strategy that I can recall for the past 15 years we've been a customer.
| Welll.... not enough info there grant - 8 years ago |
First, the typical benefit of a modern turbo ( not those of yore) is a low, wide, flat torque band. HP is a peak number. I'd want to see the curves before i say too l=much ( how's that for a softball, Harvey, we're all waiting...).
Next, as someone noted below, turbos are pretty simple to hot rod. The old Audi 2.7 bi-turbo went from 250/250 to 350/350 with the push of a map. Since Porche designed this to have higher output, supposedly it is built to take the pressure and heat. Just like the M96. Ooops, cancel that.
But overall, manufacturers are moving toward greener solutions - so entry and mid-level cars that have lower CO2 and fuel use are not irrational.
I'll keep my car, thanks. It may be slow, but it makes up for it it lethargy.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Next, as someone noted below, turbos are pretty simple to hot rod. The old Audi 2.7 bi-turbo went from 250/250 to 350/350 with the push of a map. Since Porche designed this to have higher output, supposedly it is built to take the pressure and heat. Just like the M96. Ooops, cancel that.
But overall, manufacturers are moving toward greener solutions - so entry and mid-level cars that have lower CO2 and fuel use are not irrational.
I'll keep my car, thanks. It may be slow, but it makes up for it it lethargy.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
| *NM* Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
Quote
grant
First, the typical benefit of a modern turbo ( not those of yore) is a low, wide, flat torque band. HP is a peak number. I'd want to see the curves before i say too l=much ( how's that for a softball, Harvey, we're all waiting...).
Next, as someone noted below, turbos are pretty simple to hot rod. The old Audi 2.7 bi-turbo went from 250/250 to 350/350 with the push of a map. Since Porche designed this to have higher output, supposedly it is built to take the pressure and heat. Just like the M96. Ooops, cancel that.
But overall, manufacturers are moving toward greener solutions - so entry and mid-level cars that have lower CO2 and fuel use are not irrational.
I'll keep my car, thanks. It may be slow, but it makes up for it it lethargy.
Grant
The thing that going to turbo will do, however, is allow buyers of the "lessor" model line to chip the car and equal or surpass the power of the more premium Carrera buyer..... Something that couldn't really be done before with the engines being naturally aspirated. Some 911 owners will be smoked by some of the tuned turbo Boxsters and Caymans.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2015 10:42AM by boxtaboy. (view changes)
| Re: Welll.... not enough info there Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Quote
boxtaboy
The thing that going to turbo will do, however, is allow buyers of the "lessor" model line to chip the car and equal or surpass the power of the more premium Carrera buyer..... Something that couldn't really be done before with the engines being naturally aspirated. Some 911 owners will be smoked by some of the tuned turbo Boxsters and Caymans.
The only "problem" with this theory is that the 991.2 is also going turbo, but with the flat six.
CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
Quote
Guenter in Ontario
Quote
boxtaboy
The thing that going to turbo will do, however, is allow buyers of the "lessor" model line to chip the car and equal or surpass the power of the more premium Carrera buyer..... Something that couldn't really be done before with the engines being naturally aspirated. Some 911 owners will be smoked by some of the tuned turbo Boxsters and Caymans.
The only "problem" with this theory is that the 991.2 is also going turbo, but with the flat six.
Yes, true...my assumption is that many Carrera owners won't tune their cars, and those are the ones that get owned by the lessor models that do the tuning.
Check out how a tuned Audi sedan leaves a 997turbo behind:
[youtu.be]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2015 11:07AM by boxtaboy. (view changes)
| Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
911 with follow-on article about Boxster & Cayman
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Cayman to Undercut Boxster.....sorta 
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
17 or so articles...if you've got the time & interest
The auto press has a field day with this 'stuff'.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
The auto press has a field day with this 'stuff'.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
| Isn't speculation fun mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC - 8 years ago |
I've been thinking along the same lines. Electrically assisted steering was supposed to be a disaster, now not so much. With computer control of the throttle, new possibilities such as control based on accelerator pedal velocity and acceleration instead of just pedal position are available. This could do a lot to help with engine response.
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