Re: Will Older six cylinder boxsters go up in value now with the 4 banger in 2016? |  |  |
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| Will Older six cylinder boxsters go up in value now with the 4 banger in 2016? moresquirt - 8 years ago |
I was reading an article on all Caymen and Boxster 2016 and on now come with 4 cylinders and depending on how well there received the 911 may end up
that way also.Im sure they will still be a great car to drive,possibly better as this is a sports car not a muscle car and weight is very important.
BUT will the diehard purists flock to the used market for older strait 6 models and possible elevate there value. Regarding the look off the
2016 Boxster i am not really a fan.I like the look off the older models.I think the rear end has lost something plus the front end looks more like a corvette,im not a fan off the angular
headlights and new grill opening in the front bumper.I am sure its a great car to drive and mush nicer than my 06 S but the looks gotta pull me in first.
Anyone else feel this way?
that way also.Im sure they will still be a great car to drive,possibly better as this is a sports car not a muscle car and weight is very important.
BUT will the diehard purists flock to the used market for older strait 6 models and possible elevate there value. Regarding the look off the
2016 Boxster i am not really a fan.I like the look off the older models.I think the rear end has lost something plus the front end looks more like a corvette,im not a fan off the angular
headlights and new grill opening in the front bumper.I am sure its a great car to drive and mush nicer than my 06 S but the looks gotta pull me in first.
Anyone else feel this way?
| Re: Will Older six cylinder boxsters go up in value now with the 4 banger in 2016? moresquirt - 8 years ago |
Im not so sure,the older porsche 911,s all had known issues almost every model year and they still increased in value.Yes,the IMS is a problem but
for the 06 thru 08 i have not read about 1 issue. That said i still wish i had held out for an 09 with none.Will they hold or go up in value? I guess time will tell,may need
about another 10 years to find out!
for the 06 thru 08 i have not read about 1 issue. That said i still wish i had held out for an 09 with none.Will they hold or go up in value? I guess time will tell,may need
about another 10 years to find out!
CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
If you haven't even read of one issue with the 06-08 models with the IMS, you can read of a couple here: [rennlist.com]
That said, regardless whether it's an issue or not with the new fixes available, I still personally doubt the value of old Boxsters will go up like 911s have. Do you see old 924s and 944s being sold at ridiculously high prices? The 911s are the icon car for the brand, and there are simply too many Boxsters produced for them to go up in value IMO. Good luck with your hopes however.
That said, regardless whether it's an issue or not with the new fixes available, I still personally doubt the value of old Boxsters will go up like 911s have. Do you see old 924s and 944s being sold at ridiculously high prices? The 911s are the icon car for the brand, and there are simply too many Boxsters produced for them to go up in value IMO. Good luck with your hopes however.
| Boxsters and Caymans are ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - 8 years ago |
... going up in price.
I agree that they won't reach collectible status like the 993s, but the price was ridiculously low a year ago.
They are now stabilizing higher than last year.
I see this constantly when doing PPIs.
I sell my restored 986s for a higher price than you normally see on the market because I take care of all the issues and I even include a warranty on the engine.
There are many people who love these cars and want to enjoy them and are willing to invest in a quality example.
The deflated prices are fear-induced and artificial.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
I agree that they won't reach collectible status like the 993s, but the price was ridiculously low a year ago.
They are now stabilizing higher than last year.
I see this constantly when doing PPIs.
I sell my restored 986s for a higher price than you normally see on the market because I take care of all the issues and I even include a warranty on the engine.
There are many people who love these cars and want to enjoy them and are willing to invest in a quality example.
The deflated prices are fear-induced and artificial.
Happy Boxstering
Pedro
Quote
boxtaboy
If you haven't even read of one issue with the 06-08 models with the IMS, you can read of a couple here: [rennlist.com]
That said, regardless whether it's an issue or not with the new fixes available, I still personally doubt the value of old Boxsters will go up like 911s have. Do you see old 924s and 944s being sold at ridiculously high prices? The 911s are the icon car for the brand, and there are simply too many Boxsters produced for them to go up in value IMO. Good luck with your hopes however.
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
CarreraLicious - 8 years ago |
It's good to hear the prices are stabilizing Pedro. I was referring more to Boxsters in general not being able to appreciate in value like the iconic 911. Besides the mechanics/excellent handling characteristics that make the car so much fun and enjoyable, there were too many made, and there will always be that image...
[youtu.be]
[youtu.be]
The fans have them already, and folks who remember them fondly are aging so the nostalgia market is reduced. Kids today aren't into cars as much.
Since the IMS is so easily remedied (albeit with $$$$) and the number of wrecks will provide parts for those who want to keep them forever, I don't anticipate enough of a decrease in those available to make them rare. I doubt there will be a significant rise in value.
So I wouldn't be investing in a 2015 8 miles flat-6 and storing it as a retirement kitty.
Since the IMS is so easily remedied (albeit with $$$$) and the number of wrecks will provide parts for those who want to keep them forever, I don't anticipate enough of a decrease in those available to make them rare. I doubt there will be a significant rise in value.
So I wouldn't be investing in a 2015 8 miles flat-6 and storing it as a retirement kitty.
| Re: Will Older six cylinder boxsters go up in value now with the 4 banger in 2016? Lawdevil & CURVN8R - 8 years ago |
Quote
dennisafrompa
Went to the local Porsche dealer today, because they are closed and no one bathers you. I parked my 987 '08 Cayman next to a new one and wow that new Cayman is huge. It's almost Panamera like.
It may look bigger - but it really isn't. Here are the dimensions:
Length
2006-2008: 4,372 mm (172.1 in)
2009–2012: 4,376 mm (172 in)
2013–present: 4,374 mm (172 in)
Width
2006-present: 1,801 mm (70.9 in)
Height
2006-2008: 1,305 mm (51.4 in)
2009–2012: 1,303 mm (51 in)
2013-present: 1,293 mm (51 in)
The wheelbase of the 981 is a little longer since the wheels are closer to the corners:
2006-2012: 2,416 mm (95.1 in)
2013-present: 2,474 mm (97.4 in)
Cheers!
Lawdevil
2013 Boxster S - Agate Grey,
2016 Macan Turbo - jet black
Cashiers, NC & Atlanta
| Supply and demand grant - 8 years ago |
| Re: Supply and demand moresquirt - 8 years ago |
I was wondering if my 06 S might have added value as it was the last 3.2 litre flat 6 but with the last revision and larger IMS bearing. The 3.4 on the earlier had issues
with heat causing cracks in the cylinders in believe. I have not read anything lately regarding problems with them 2007 and up.Pedro have u noticed any issues with the
newer 3.4,s. Was there much off a weight difference between the both. I also concur with above statement regarding the younger gen not being into sport cars.I have 2 teenagers
and neither care about what car they drive as long as it gets excellent milage and has an ipod jack,LOL
with heat causing cracks in the cylinders in believe. I have not read anything lately regarding problems with them 2007 and up.Pedro have u noticed any issues with the
newer 3.4,s. Was there much off a weight difference between the both. I also concur with above statement regarding the younger gen not being into sport cars.I have 2 teenagers
and neither care about what car they drive as long as it gets excellent milage and has an ipod jack,LOL
| Yes, but ... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - 8 years ago |
… not exclusively because of the flat-4 vs flat-6 issue.
Certainly there will be many people who are put off by the 4 cylinders, me included, even if they have more power and torque that the actual 6-bangers.
But what I believe will make them hold their price a bit better is the fact that the IMS issue now has a true, permanent fix.
One of the reasons why these cars lost a lot of their value was in great part due to the fear-mongering marketing tactics of some that wanted to make every owner fear that they were driving a ticking time bomb.
A lot of people lost a lot of money and a lot of sleepless nights because of that. Some still do.
These are wonderful cars, with issues, just like any other car in the marketplace.
But when those issues are taken care of, they will reward you with many years of permagrin.
Happy Flat-6-DOF'ing,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Certainly there will be many people who are put off by the 4 cylinders, me included, even if they have more power and torque that the actual 6-bangers.
But what I believe will make them hold their price a bit better is the fact that the IMS issue now has a true, permanent fix.
One of the reasons why these cars lost a lot of their value was in great part due to the fear-mongering marketing tactics of some that wanted to make every owner fear that they were driving a ticking time bomb.
A lot of people lost a lot of money and a lot of sleepless nights because of that. Some still do.
These are wonderful cars, with issues, just like any other car in the marketplace.
But when those issues are taken care of, they will reward you with many years of permagrin.
Happy Flat-6-DOF'ing,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Re: Yes, but ... Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
I completely agree with Pedro. The two main reasons I bought my 981 are:
1. to ensure getting a NA flat six
2. to ensure being able to get a manual transmission
Sounds now like Porsche will keep the manual option unto the 2020's. Once they have to develop a new transmission, they've suggested, they won't develop both a new manual and PDK.
To me, driving a Boxster is about the total experience. It's not just looks, just performance, just handling, just sound, just the tactile experience. Its how all these are combined into one car. The whole is more than the sum of its parts. That's what makes Boxsters, built to the present, the special cars that they are.
With a flat 4 and turbo charger, they're going to sound different. Maybe it will be good, maybe not. I love the total package that my 981 is. Changing the sound could take away one part of the experience that I enjoy.
In addition, adding a turbo charger also adds more complexity to the engine, along with more heat being generated. Time will tell, how that will effect the driveability and reliability when they're used in everyday conditions.
I have the feeling that for these reasons, Boxsters up to the present, will be more desirable than the turbo 4 bangers in the future.
I know of at least one that won't be available on used car the market and I can think of a few others that won't be either.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2015 09:57AM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)
1. to ensure getting a NA flat six
2. to ensure being able to get a manual transmission
Sounds now like Porsche will keep the manual option unto the 2020's. Once they have to develop a new transmission, they've suggested, they won't develop both a new manual and PDK.
To me, driving a Boxster is about the total experience. It's not just looks, just performance, just handling, just sound, just the tactile experience. Its how all these are combined into one car. The whole is more than the sum of its parts. That's what makes Boxsters, built to the present, the special cars that they are.
With a flat 4 and turbo charger, they're going to sound different. Maybe it will be good, maybe not. I love the total package that my 981 is. Changing the sound could take away one part of the experience that I enjoy.
In addition, adding a turbo charger also adds more complexity to the engine, along with more heat being generated. Time will tell, how that will effect the driveability and reliability when they're used in everyday conditions.
I have the feeling that for these reasons, Boxsters up to the present, will be more desirable than the turbo 4 bangers in the future.
I know of at least one that won't be available on used car the market and I can think of a few others that won't be either.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2015 09:57AM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)
| Ditto..... jg wnc - 8 years ago |
| Re: Yes, but ... tonyd - 8 years ago |
If you read the German marketing for the 4cyl+turbo Porsche engine it is all environmental .Nothing about making a better engine/car. And specifically it is about compliance with future European paranoia about CO2 and litres/km consumption . Doubtless they will just use ceater software to pass Emissions Tests? Next a battery-driven Porsche?
| Read this... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - 8 years ago |
... Tech article which I wrote about a year ago:
[pedrosgarage.com]
Happy turbo'ing
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
[pedrosgarage.com]
Happy turbo'ing
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
1. The new Boxster/Cayman's will be different, have lots more torque, and will sell as well as the current NA cars. Porsche knows what they're doing market wise.
2. Their will be more unpopular to the old guard, chances in two years as European emissions standards become more restrictive once again. That, rather than 2020 is the water mark.
3. The younger, targeted first time Porsche buyers will enjoy the new turbo 4 engines they've become used to in their earlier, less expensive cars. They want PDK's also.
4. Old fogies, like many here, will lament the passing of the boxer 6 NA, the availability of a real manual, electrically boosted steering, water cooled engines, the list is endless
5. Time passes, things change. Porsche knows how to engineer a sports car!
Being an old fogie, I'm getting a 2016 Cayman with a stick shift, not to drive around pointlessly, and wax poetic about, but to use as enjoyable transportation.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2015 11:22AM by Gary in SoFL. (view changes)
2. Their will be more unpopular to the old guard, chances in two years as European emissions standards become more restrictive once again. That, rather than 2020 is the water mark.
3. The younger, targeted first time Porsche buyers will enjoy the new turbo 4 engines they've become used to in their earlier, less expensive cars. They want PDK's also.
4. Old fogies, like many here, will lament the passing of the boxer 6 NA, the availability of a real manual, electrically boosted steering, water cooled engines, the list is endless
5. Time passes, things change. Porsche knows how to engineer a sports car!
Being an old fogie, I'm getting a 2016 Cayman with a stick shift, not to drive around pointlessly, and wax poetic about, but to use as enjoyable transportation.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2015 11:22AM by Gary in SoFL. (view changes)
| 'Not to drive around pointlessly' Roger987 - 8 years ago |
I realize, Gary, that with that remark, you're casting bait to see how many will take it. ok, I'm hooked.
How many of the activities many (most) people enjoy might be described as 'pointless', using your definition?
Listening to music, hiking a trail (when there's a perfectly good road which would take you to the other side of the mountain in 1/1000 of the time), sailing (not to get somewhere, but just for the sheer pleasure), flying a kite, hitting a golf ball, watching a sunset, skiing down a mountain, looking at a Monet, holding hands...
Seems to me that if one has to ask 'what's the point?", he's probably missing out... a lot.
How many of the activities many (most) people enjoy might be described as 'pointless', using your definition?
Listening to music, hiking a trail (when there's a perfectly good road which would take you to the other side of the mountain in 1/1000 of the time), sailing (not to get somewhere, but just for the sheer pleasure), flying a kite, hitting a golf ball, watching a sunset, skiing down a mountain, looking at a Monet, holding hands...
Seems to me that if one has to ask 'what's the point?", he's probably missing out... a lot.
Arguing with yourself Roger, is worrisome  Roger987 - 8 years ago |
Laz - 8 years ago |
Looks like at least tonal curve or level manipulation.
Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2015 09:41AM by Laz. (view changes)
Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/10/2015 09:41AM by Laz. (view changes)
Thanks, Laz
The right side of the car was in the shade, and the sky/clouds were blown out (over-exposed in film-speak - I don't know what it's called in the world of digital film), so I brightened the shadow area, dialed down the highlights (which created a sort of polarized filter effect), sharpened the image and did what I could to get rid of the telephone pole growing out of the frunk.
Back in my university days, I spent a fair bit of time working in the darkroom, with film images - mostly Kodak Tri-X and Plus-X, and variable contrast resin-coated paper (boy, where have THOSE days gone?) - and though I've moved to digital photography, I haven't spent any time trying to learn about manipulating digital images. I bought Photoshop a number of years ago, and haven't yet installed it on my computer. I guess that's a retirement project.
Currently, I work within the limitations of Windows Photo Gallery, which was included with the packaged software installed on my Thinkpad when I bought it a few years ago.
Here's the original image, shot with a Sony NEX-6:
The right side of the car was in the shade, and the sky/clouds were blown out (over-exposed in film-speak - I don't know what it's called in the world of digital film), so I brightened the shadow area, dialed down the highlights (which created a sort of polarized filter effect), sharpened the image and did what I could to get rid of the telephone pole growing out of the frunk.
Back in my university days, I spent a fair bit of time working in the darkroom, with film images - mostly Kodak Tri-X and Plus-X, and variable contrast resin-coated paper (boy, where have THOSE days gone?) - and though I've moved to digital photography, I haven't spent any time trying to learn about manipulating digital images. I bought Photoshop a number of years ago, and haven't yet installed it on my computer. I guess that's a retirement project.
Currently, I work within the limitations of Windows Photo Gallery, which was included with the packaged software installed on my Thinkpad when I bought it a few years ago.
Here's the original image, shot with a Sony NEX-6:
Laz - 8 years ago |
Someday w/ Photoshop you can try selective masking where you took out the pole and experiment with contrast & sharp filter(s.) With Photoshop you can create duplicate layers of the original and work with those.
Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2015 09:40AM by Laz. (view changes)
Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2015 09:40AM by Laz. (view changes)
| Re: Some things we can count on.... Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Quote
Gary in SoFL
4. Old fogies, like many here, will lament the passing of the boxer 6 NA, the availability of a real manual, electrically boosted steering, water cooled engines, the list is endless
Being an old fogie, I'm getting a 2016 Cayman with a stick shift, not to drive around pointlessly, and wax poetic about, but to use as enjoyable transportation.
Guess I must have missed something. When did Porsche announce they were getting rid of electrically boosted steering and water cooled engines? What's the word on what will be replacing them?
I agree with you. I just don't see how anyone could possibly drive around pointlessly. Maybe an example or two might help.
Wax poetic - nothing wrong with having a passion for and enjoying something. It's one of the pleasures of life. I'm just sorry for those who can't do that. Must be a boring life.
Gary in SoFL - 8 years ago |
Quote
Guenter in Ontario
Quote
Gary in SoFL
I agree with you. I just don't see how anyone could possibly drive around pointlessly. Maybe an example or two might help.
Wax poetic - nothing wrong with having a passion for and enjoying something. It's one of the pleasures of life. I'm just sorry for those who can't do that. Must be a boring life.
No surprise that you misread it, probably cause you were out pointlessly wasting good petrol when there are so many more important things in life to be passionate about IMHO. Talk about boring, and now waiting 6 months for your next passionate drive to nowhere.
Different strokes, as they say. Glad your having fun, g-man.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
| One important thing missing dak911 - 8 years ago |
| Re: Will Older six cylinder boxsters go up in value now with the 4 banger in 2016? db997S - 8 years ago |
I'm sure there was similar discussion in the '90s when Porsche confirmed it was canning the aircooled engines for water-cooled ones. The purists were probably horrified at such a move. Well, water has its advantages over air, and I'm sure dropping two cylinders and forcing induction will also have its advantages. Forced air systems have improved over the decades. Even in smaller displacement engines, turbo lag is becoming a thing of the past. In the world of Porsche, the 911 Turbo was king, and still is for many who do not track their car. After all, the GT3 isn't the best car in the world to take your significant other on a hot date, unless he/she is also a track junkie. The 911 Turbo, on the other hand, now that could get you some action off the track.
The most simple calculations of cost per mile for most cars will show that the biggest cost is depreciation. If my car holds its value, that's a lot better than most drivers will get. A big factor is that I bought the car used from the original owner. It's an Arizona car, and I don't plan on selling it. Of course, one never knows. There was an estimate that 25% of car crashes in Minnesota are due to distracted drivers AKA texting idiots. I expect the actual number is higher, but I don't think cell phone records are traced if there are no injuries in an accident.
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