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| help with potential purchase of fist ever p-car!! dabozo - 8 years ago |
Hi everyone, newbie here!
Like most of you I have always dreamt of someday owning a porsche and i may now be in a position to do so...albeit a used one lol...have to start somewhere!
Im currently looking at a 2012 cayman s black edition with manual tranny. I test drove it yesterday and liked it but really, i have nothing to compare it to since its the first one i have ever driven.
I was hoping you all could give me any 'heads up' on what to look out for as far as potential trouble goes...
Currently has 45000 KMs on it and is asking less than 60K CDN...no warranty unless i purchase one for $5-7000.
My impressions from driving it (aside from the good things) was that the engine sounded rough...perhaps this is a Porsche characteristic? And the shifting was very tight ...but ive read on here that this is typical...
Ive read about some oil deprivation/consumption issues and seals/rings going...Can anyone shed some light on this potential purchase of mine?
Re price, i checked the black book website and basically the trade in value it gave me is pretty much what the dealer is asking...which scares me. Especially for a car that is limited.
Any help from you all is greatly appreciated!
Like most of you I have always dreamt of someday owning a porsche and i may now be in a position to do so...albeit a used one lol...have to start somewhere!
Im currently looking at a 2012 cayman s black edition with manual tranny. I test drove it yesterday and liked it but really, i have nothing to compare it to since its the first one i have ever driven.
I was hoping you all could give me any 'heads up' on what to look out for as far as potential trouble goes...
Currently has 45000 KMs on it and is asking less than 60K CDN...no warranty unless i purchase one for $5-7000.
My impressions from driving it (aside from the good things) was that the engine sounded rough...perhaps this is a Porsche characteristic? And the shifting was very tight ...but ive read on here that this is typical...
Ive read about some oil deprivation/consumption issues and seals/rings going...Can anyone shed some light on this potential purchase of mine?
Re price, i checked the black book website and basically the trade in value it gave me is pretty much what the dealer is asking...which scares me. Especially for a car that is limited.
Any help from you all is greatly appreciated!
First, welcome to the board. Many of us where in the same shoes as you at some point, getting into their first Porsche.
With 45,000 KM (that's about 27,000 mi. for the south of the border guys) that engine is just nicely broken in. It definitely should not be running rough. You said sounding rough. Have you driven any other Caymans or Boxsters? I would drive a few others just so you can compare. The engine in the 2012 Cayman is the new MA1 engine which has been really reliable and doesn't seem to have any serious issues if it has been looked after. Oil deprivation is only an issue if you drive the car on the track at high speeds and taking long corners. I haven't heard of any issues with seals or rings on this new engine.
Before you buy a used Porsche, you definitely should have a PPI (PrePurches Inspection) done by a reliable Porsche mechanic (not from the selling dealer.) Better to spend a couple of hundred dollars than to maybe have a car that needs expensive repairs.
When it comes to price. Just remember that is what the dealer is asking for. You can always make a lower offer. You could offer to purchase the car at that price only if the dealer includes the Porsche Approved Warranty
More info on the Porsche Approved Warranty: [www.porsche.com]
I'm guessing that you live here in Canada. In that case, the sports car market is now very soft since most of us are in the process of storing our cars for the winter. This means the dealer should be willing to sell the car of less since the don't want the car sitting on the lot until Spring.
So my recommendation would be:
Remember, there are other nice Caymans and Boxsters out there. Make sure you get the one that is best for you. You might even have to travel a bit to find the right one. If you're here in Ontario, you have quite a few dealers from whom you can buy. There will also be nice ones at non Porsche dealers or for sale privately.
Happy Porsche shopping and let us know how your search / purchase goes.
With 45,000 KM (that's about 27,000 mi. for the south of the border guys) that engine is just nicely broken in. It definitely should not be running rough. You said sounding rough. Have you driven any other Caymans or Boxsters? I would drive a few others just so you can compare. The engine in the 2012 Cayman is the new MA1 engine which has been really reliable and doesn't seem to have any serious issues if it has been looked after. Oil deprivation is only an issue if you drive the car on the track at high speeds and taking long corners. I haven't heard of any issues with seals or rings on this new engine.
Before you buy a used Porsche, you definitely should have a PPI (PrePurches Inspection) done by a reliable Porsche mechanic (not from the selling dealer.) Better to spend a couple of hundred dollars than to maybe have a car that needs expensive repairs.
When it comes to price. Just remember that is what the dealer is asking for. You can always make a lower offer. You could offer to purchase the car at that price only if the dealer includes the Porsche Approved Warranty
More info on the Porsche Approved Warranty: [www.porsche.com]
I'm guessing that you live here in Canada. In that case, the sports car market is now very soft since most of us are in the process of storing our cars for the winter. This means the dealer should be willing to sell the car of less since the don't want the car sitting on the lot until Spring.
So my recommendation would be:
- Test drive a couple of other Caymans and or Boxsters for comparison
- If you're satisfied that this car seems to run well compared to the others, make an offer and say you would take the car at that price provided it passes a PPI
Remember, there are other nice Caymans and Boxsters out there. Make sure you get the one that is best for you. You might even have to travel a bit to find the right one. If you're here in Ontario, you have quite a few dealers from whom you can buy. There will also be nice ones at non Porsche dealers or for sale privately.
Happy Porsche shopping and let us know how your search / purchase goes.
| Re: help with potential purchase of fist ever p-car!! dabozo - 8 years ago |
Wow thanks for the thorough response!
Yes, that's what I told dealer...that I need to test drive other caymans/boxers before proceeding.
The roughness could just be the fact I had an engine strapped to my back lol. But a comparison test will sort this out.
Re price, I was thinking it was too low therefore I was skeptical about its condition. Do you think this is a fair ask ( <60k CDN)? ...assuming no hidden surprises...it def looked like needed brakes...at 45000km...
Yes, that's what I told dealer...that I need to test drive other caymans/boxers before proceeding.
The roughness could just be the fact I had an engine strapped to my back lol. But a comparison test will sort this out.
Re price, I was thinking it was too low therefore I was skeptical about its condition. Do you think this is a fair ask ( <60k CDN)? ...assuming no hidden surprises...it def looked like needed brakes...at 45000km...
I just don't think that you can describe a Porsche engine, that's running properly, as being rough. At 45K km, it shouldn't need brakes, unless it has been tracked. I had a 2006 Boxster with over 100,000 km that still had the original brakes and I enjoy driving in a spirited manner. This car sounds like it hasn't been looked after very well. I would definitely keep looking.
You can search for pre owned Caymans on the Porsche website. I see a number of them listed, depending on where you are. I also see some listed in Auto Trader.
You can search for pre owned Caymans on the Porsche website. I see a number of them listed, depending on where you are. I also see some listed in Auto Trader.
| Some additional warranty information Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
Not sure if this car is at a Porsche dealer, private or another dealer.
When it comes to the Porsche Approved Warranty. It can only be given/bought at a Porsche dealer. If you're buying any other after market warranty. You really have to read all the fine print because they have lots of exclusions. The Porsche Approved Warranty, on the other hand, is almost the same as the Porsche new car warranty, including roadside assistance.
When it comes to the Porsche Approved Warranty. It can only be given/bought at a Porsche dealer. If you're buying any other after market warranty. You really have to read all the fine print because they have lots of exclusions. The Porsche Approved Warranty, on the other hand, is almost the same as the Porsche new car warranty, including roadside assistance.
| Re: Some additional warranty information dabozo - 8 years ago |
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Guenter in Ontario
Not sure if this car is at a Porsche dealer, private or another dealer.
When it comes to the Porsche Approved Warranty. It can only be given/bought at a Porsche dealer. If you're buying any other after market warranty. You really have to read all the fine print because they have lots of exclusions. The Porsche Approved Warranty, on the other hand, is almost the same as the Porsche new car warranty, including roadside assistance.
This is a non Porsche dealer with ties to pfaff.the aftermarket warranty they peddle is from LGM called 'securedrive'...which they tell me is the same one Porsche uses for CPO. Not sure I believe this though.
| Re: Some additional warranty information Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
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dabozo
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Guenter in Ontario
This is a non Porsche dealer with ties to pfaff.the aftermarket warranty they peddle is from LGM called 'securedrive'...which they tell me is the same one Porsche uses for CPO. Not sure I believe this though.
I've never heard of Porsche using a third party warranty company. With CPO warranty, if the car needs a repair, a Porsche dealer makes the repair and is reimbursed for parts and labour by Porsche, not some other company, same as the Porsche new car warranty. There are no deductibles.
I'd be suspect about this warranty. You'd really have to read all the fine print.
| Re: Some additional warranty information dabozo - 8 years ago |
im skeptical too...about all 3rd party warranties for that matter...
The Salesperson went to talk to a manager and came back with him saying they just got off the phone with pfaff porsche and much to their surprise, 'it turns out that they use the same aftermarket warranty as what they offer their customers (LGM)"
Maybe aside from actual porsche warranties, this is who porshe recommends to customers when a car can no longer be CPO'd?? Although, the other 2 2012's i saw DO have a CPO warranty...
...Or like you said Guenter, ONLY Porsche dealers can provide a genuine Porsche warranty so these guys cooked up this statement so as to not discourage me...maybe it is time to move on... I dont trust 3rd party warranty's and for what they are asking for it ($), Im better off paying that much more elsewhere and getting a genuine warranty.
The Salesperson went to talk to a manager and came back with him saying they just got off the phone with pfaff porsche and much to their surprise, 'it turns out that they use the same aftermarket warranty as what they offer their customers (LGM)"
Maybe aside from actual porsche warranties, this is who porshe recommends to customers when a car can no longer be CPO'd?? Although, the other 2 2012's i saw DO have a CPO warranty...
...Or like you said Guenter, ONLY Porsche dealers can provide a genuine Porsche warranty so these guys cooked up this statement so as to not discourage me...maybe it is time to move on... I dont trust 3rd party warranty's and for what they are asking for it ($), Im better off paying that much more elsewhere and getting a genuine warranty.
| Re: Some additional warranty information Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
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dabozo
im skeptical too...about all 3rd party warranties for that matter...
The Salesperson went to talk to a manager and came back with him saying they just got off the phone with pfaff porsche and much to their surprise, 'it turns out that they use the same aftermarket warranty as what they offer their customers (LGM)"
Maybe aside from actual porsche warranties, this is who porshe recommends to customers when a car can no longer be CPO'd?? Although, the other 2 2012's i saw DO have a CPO warranty...
...Or like you said Guenter, ONLY Porsche dealers can provide a genuine Porsche warranty so these guys cooked up this statement so as to not discourage me...maybe it is time to move on... I dont trust 3rd party warranty's and for what they are asking for it ($), Im better off paying that much more elsewhere and getting a genuine warranty.
I think that you're correct about the after market warranty. This car, however is a 2012, around 45K km, so if it was boing sold by a Porsche dealer, it would still be eligible for a CPO warranty which is good for 2 years or 80,000 km from the date it is sold as a used car.
Your gut feeling about this car / deal seems to be about the same as mine.
Porsches are fabulous cars. They will last a long time if they're properly looked after. Make sure you can get the service records and have a PPI done on a used one. You don't want to get one that's been abused or not properly maintained. Then it can become very expensive.
I think you're on the right track to try out some others for comparison. A Porsche flat six has a unique sound. I call it the Symphony in Flat Six. I've never thought of it as a rough sounding engine. Definitely more aggressive sounding than the average sedan. So if the engine is running or sounding rough, it has some sort of issue which could mean $ or $$$$$$.
Force yourself to take another one or two for a test drive. Not a bad way of spending an afternoon.
Get to know what they sound like and how they handle.Laz - 8 years ago |
At least in my case, a big difference I've noticed between my previous Boxster 2.7 M96 and the S 3.4 9A1 is the latter motor makes a lot more clatter from, I suppose, the valve train and maybe the injectors. And concerning roughness, it idle is a bit more "radical" cam-ish (?) than the 2.7. The upside is the induction and exhaust sounds upon opening the throttle are pleasingly more dramatic, although I'm still not crazy about splatting, popping, near-banging the exhaust often makes when coming off throttle at about 4000 rpm. Perhaps that's a cam parameter thing and my upshifting "technique." The dealer, whom I trust, tells me all is normal. Even the 2.7's 5 speed gear change mechanism is delicate and quiet compared to the metallic clacking noises the 3.4's 6 speed makes. Again, the dealer says this is the way they are.
All this said, "roughness" should not be present, and with normal, even somewhat spirited street driving, the brakes ought to last close to 100,000 miles. That's both the pads and (iron) rotors.
Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
All this said, "roughness" should not be present, and with normal, even somewhat spirited street driving, the brakes ought to last close to 100,000 miles. That's both the pads and (iron) rotors.
Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
| Re: Engines (and gear change mechanisms) dabozo - 8 years ago |
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Laz
the brakes ought to last close to 100,000 miles. That's both the pads and (iron) rotors.
I wasn't able to do a thorough inspection of them on my test drive but the pads looked worn and the rotors had a lip to them (needed machining or replacement).
Its ironic...these cars are meant to be driven hard and or tracked, yet its the last thing i want to hear about a car im considering purchasing - that its been tracked lol..
| Adding to Guenter's excellent advice... grant - 8 years ago |
First, congrats.
1. The 2012 is the last of the previous generation ("987.2") car. That's good and bad, but know that the newer "981" (2013+) cars are more desirable and IMO, better in every way. That said i love my FIRST generation (986) boxster from way back when. Just be aware and use it in negotiations.
2. Being a "987.2" (revised 2nd gen) it has the newer, DFI motor with no IMS and better oiling. This alleviates most of the motor issues of the older cars.
3. Caymans are just awesome. The handling is sublime.
4. Its a sports car. It will make noises and transmit vibrations. Drive my track car and see what real noise is about :-) But with those noises comes feel and performance. if, on the other hand, its truly "rough" something could be wrong.
5. On the above, unless you are a master mechanic and familiar with P-cars, pay the $300ish to have a good, local expert put the car on t lift and go over it stem to stern. best money you'll ever spend. If the seller doesn;t like it, you just learned something.
6. With cars, these cars last a LONG time. We have several here with > 200k on them, and some of those see the race track regularly. From inside the fence.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2015 08:21AM by grant. (view changes)
1. The 2012 is the last of the previous generation ("987.2") car. That's good and bad, but know that the newer "981" (2013+) cars are more desirable and IMO, better in every way. That said i love my FIRST generation (986) boxster from way back when. Just be aware and use it in negotiations.
2. Being a "987.2" (revised 2nd gen) it has the newer, DFI motor with no IMS and better oiling. This alleviates most of the motor issues of the older cars.
3. Caymans are just awesome. The handling is sublime.
4. Its a sports car. It will make noises and transmit vibrations. Drive my track car and see what real noise is about :-) But with those noises comes feel and performance. if, on the other hand, its truly "rough" something could be wrong.
5. On the above, unless you are a master mechanic and familiar with P-cars, pay the $300ish to have a good, local expert put the car on t lift and go over it stem to stern. best money you'll ever spend. If the seller doesn;t like it, you just learned something.
6. With cars, these cars last a LONG time. We have several here with > 200k on them, and some of those see the race track regularly. From inside the fence.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2015 08:21AM by grant. (view changes)
| Some thoughts mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC - 8 years ago |
Is maybe the dealer telling you correctly but not completely, that the Porsche dealer does sell cars with a third party extra cost warranty.
What they maybe don't go on to say is that, for the good cars the Porsche dealer gets, they pay Porsche for the CPO and have to put those cars through a rigorous multi-hour inspection to qualify them for the CPO program. They also have to fix anything that was wrong that was found in the inspection. Thickness of brake rotors and pads are measured, tire tread depth, etc etc.
I've also known dealer owners to have separate companies that they give less desirable cars to. Can you trace how the car got to where it is?
Is it possible this car needed more after a quick look than they were willing to put into it for CPO qualification. If so caveat emptor.
My experience with brake rotor life was much different than those posted. Mine needed rotors at 30k miles but it had been a city car with a TIP/auto transmission.
What they maybe don't go on to say is that, for the good cars the Porsche dealer gets, they pay Porsche for the CPO and have to put those cars through a rigorous multi-hour inspection to qualify them for the CPO program. They also have to fix anything that was wrong that was found in the inspection. Thickness of brake rotors and pads are measured, tire tread depth, etc etc.
I've also known dealer owners to have separate companies that they give less desirable cars to. Can you trace how the car got to where it is?
Is it possible this car needed more after a quick look than they were willing to put into it for CPO qualification. If so caveat emptor.
My experience with brake rotor life was much different than those posted. Mine needed rotors at 30k miles but it had been a city car with a TIP/auto transmission.
| Re: Some thoughts dabozo - 8 years ago |
| Re: help with potential purchase of fist ever p-car!! db997S - 8 years ago |
I would test drive another 2012 Caymen to compare engines. Don't drive any Boxsters for comparison sake. I think the design will transmit engine sound/noise more. Also, on your Black edition, did it have a sports exahaust? That, too, could impact the sound. Not sure what you are used to driving, but a Porsche simply sounds much different than "normal" cars. So, if you are going from a Honda or Toyota to your first Porsche, that rough sound could simply be hearing a highly-tuned engine for the first time. My wife never makes cell phone calls when in my 911 S. She thinks it's too loud. Me, i love it. At start up, it simply just spits and snarls, and that's with the basic exhaust system.
Laz - 8 years ago |
| Re: help with potential purchase of fist ever p-car!! dabozo - 8 years ago |
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db997S
I would test drive another 2012 Caymen to compare engines. Don't drive any Boxsters for comparison sake. I think the design will transmit engine sound/noise more. Also, on your Black edition, did it have a sports exahaust? That, too, could impact the sound. Not sure what you are used to driving, but a Porsche simply sounds much different than "normal" cars. So, if you are going from a Honda or Toyota to your first Porsche, that rough sound could simply be hearing a highly-tuned engine for the first time. My wife never makes cell phone calls when in my 911 S. She thinks it's too loud. Me, i love it. At start up, it simply just spits and snarls, and that's with the basic exhaust system.
I dont mind the noise...so long as its normal! Im coming from a Infiniti G37s Coupe. Not a sports car, i know...And i def did not expect the cabin noise to be equal to or less than the G because like you said, the cayman is a sports car.
I managed to track down a couple of other 2012 black editions (Thats 3 now that are being 'let go' now that the factory warranty is up! hmmm..)
Im going to try and do a test drive shortly...
| Re: help with potential purchase of fist ever p-car!! db997S - 8 years ago |
Some people like their car to have warranty. I held on to a Boxster for 7 years and I brought my current 911 S six years ago. If buying used, ask for the service records to the car. It can tell you two things: one, was it taken care of properly; and two, was it constantly in the shop, and if so, for what? If they aren't included in the deal, you might want to consider that, as well, but I've never brought used, so don't know what a dealer has in terms of paperwork for used cars.
| Re: help with potential purchase of fist ever p-car!! dabozo - 8 years ago |
Just an update....test drove another Cayman. It was a 2014 981 however but was still a valuable exercise. I think I can say that the 'roughness' I described is just what a p-car sounds like!
The car in question however has since been sold...
But it's ok. I would prefer a genuine CPO vehicle anyways.
I appreciate everyone s help with this. Of all the (car) forums I have ever joined, hands down this has been the most helpful! Thank you. You guys are great!
I'll keep looking for my first p-car and will definitely count on you all for advice and guidance....
The car in question however has since been sold...
But it's ok. I would prefer a genuine CPO vehicle anyways.
I appreciate everyone s help with this. Of all the (car) forums I have ever joined, hands down this has been the most helpful! Thank you. You guys are great!
I'll keep looking for my first p-car and will definitely count on you all for advice and guidance....
| Re: help with potential purchase of fist ever p-car!! MarcW - 8 years ago |
Quote
dabozo
Hi everyone, newbie here!
Like most of you I have always dreamt of someday owning a porsche and i may now be in a position to do so...albeit a used one lol...have to start somewhere!
Im currently looking at a 2012 cayman s black edition with manual tranny. I test drove it yesterday and liked it but really, i have nothing to compare it to since its the first one i have ever driven.
I was hoping you all could give me any 'heads up' on what to look out for as far as potential trouble goes...
Currently has 45000 KMs on it and is asking less than 60K CDN...no warranty unless i purchase one for $5-7000.
My impressions from driving it (aside from the good things) was that the engine sounded rough...perhaps this is a Porsche characteristic? And the shifting was very tight ...but ive read on here that this is typical...
Ive read about some oil deprivation/consumption issues and seals/rings going...Can anyone shed some light on this potential purchase of mine?
Re price, i checked the black book website and basically the trade in value it gave me is pretty much what the dealer is asking...which scares me. Especially for a car that is limited.
Any help from you all is greatly appreciated!
Rough sounding engine is relative.
Be sure when you check out a used car you confirm the CEL comes on when you turn on the key and then goes off when you start the engine and the engine begins to run. Then you let the engine idle a while as you check out the car but continue to listen to the engine for any scary noises or abnormal behavior.
You need to subject the car to a 15 mile test drive -- the seller drives -- and the route chosen gives the driver a chance to put the car through its paces. After this test ride then back at the starting point you take over and drive the same route, drive the car the same way.
The idea is you experience the car in its natural state, engine running, on the road. And the engine wants to run a total of an hour. This coupled with the 2 drives gives the DME a chance to check for any problems with the engine and its control/emissions systems.
I have not experienced the new cars but my 2002 engine has been compared to a sewing machine, it is such a smooth engine. Even at cold start it is pretty darn smooth.
However, my 2003 996 Turbo under the same conditions is a pretty rough running engine, at least cold. But as soon as the engine has some couple of moments of idling and the RPMs drop the idle smooths right out. The rough idle arises from the rich mixture at cold start and for a minute or so after coupled with the low valve lift courtesy of VarioCam Plus, which the 2012 Boxster should have as well. My 2002 just has VarioCam -- intake cam timing adjustment.
The brake condition could be explained if the car has been tracked. It can also be explained by "improper" use of the brakes. If tracked and at 45000km plugs could be in need of replacement. If the car was driven year 'round coils might be called for. For cars used in bad weather coils can have a rather short life.
The roughness can arise too from the car being for sale. It gets started often, but not driven very much. The gasoline can get a bit stale, too. But as I touched upon above you want to be sure you really experience the car beyond just a quick driveway start and short idle time.
Don't think you have to remove the car from your list but you need to experience a few more cars to develop a baseline of what sounds/looks "normal".
For price my advice is to visit various used car web sites and plug in the car's numbers: year, model, make, mileage, options, "condition", and see what wholesale/trade in, private sale, and retail sale numbers come up and arrive at what you think a reasonable price for the car.
Laz - 8 years ago |
especially concerning the rough running being caused by its for sale status. Neat transposal of a hypothetically more typical cause and effect.
I wouldn't necessarily drive the car the same way as the seller for the entirety of the potential buyer's test drive as there may be certain inputs the seller has avoided because of their negative consequences. For example, the seller may not floor the throttle because it initiates an otherwise unrevealed hesitation. Or not turning the steering to full lock during a moderately quick turn because of a suspect wheel bearing causing noise.
Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
I wouldn't necessarily drive the car the same way as the seller for the entirety of the potential buyer's test drive as there may be certain inputs the seller has avoided because of their negative consequences. For example, the seller may not floor the throttle because it initiates an otherwise unrevealed hesitation. Or not turning the steering to full lock during a moderately quick turn because of a suspect wheel bearing causing noise.
Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?
| All good points Guenter in Ontario - 8 years ago |
I've seen people take a car our for a test drive and be back in 10 minutes. That isn't enough time / distance to get a real feel for the car.
For a proper test drive, you should put the car through the same type of driving conditions that you would normally have - some city / town, stop and go driving as well as highway driving, on ramps, acceleration. Try them all out.
Mark and Laz also have a good point about the car sitting for a while. If the battery has been disconnected for some reason, then the engine will run rough for the first 10 - 15 minutes as it "relearns" the driving style.
For a proper test drive, you should put the car through the same type of driving conditions that you would normally have - some city / town, stop and go driving as well as highway driving, on ramps, acceleration. Try them all out.
Mark and Laz also have a good point about the car sitting for a while. If the battery has been disconnected for some reason, then the engine will run rough for the first 10 - 15 minutes as it "relearns" the driving style.
I would be very suspect about the warranty situation. If you buy a pre owned Porsche with CPO from a dealer it's a great insurance against problems. If you are not familiar with the sound in a Cayman drive a couple of others first before you make a decision. A flat six makes a totally different sound from just about every other car. Pfaff owns Porsche and Audi dealerships and has a close relationship with a Toyota dealership. If that Cayman was worth having I imagine it would be on Pfaffs lot.
Good luck and welcome.
Good luck and welcome.
| Re: help with potential purchase of fist ever p-car!! dabozo - 8 years ago |
| I would suggest caution SteveJ (2010 987 base, manual trans) - 8 years ago |
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