Re: Yes I agree with Guenter. Good write up...

--Beachwood Porsche (a Penske store)

Cars--718S with Manual, 718S with PDK and 718 PDK

Equipment--Premium package,14 way seats, stock suspension, exhaust, 20" wheels, NAV, Connect and a few other things

Pricing--$78K for the S w/manual, add $4k for the one with PDK and $74K for the 718 base.

Styling impressions--they all looked good--like the 981 does-- the rear and front facias are OK; I like the changes in the interior--air vents, larger touch screen, the nav unit looked a bit more modern,

Driving impressions--one my first drive in the 718S manual I had a sales person with me on the other drives--same car and then the 718 base, we drove by ourselves.

718S manual:
This car has torque; it seems to come on with a rush to about 6K and then tapers off; very quick--quicker I'd guess than the 981S. Brakes were good and the stock suspension felt solid. Same gearbox as the 981 so it shifted fine. I had no issues with how the car drove, except.....the exhaust.
At idle it sounded like a Subie with an aftermarket exhaust. Not terrible-- as you ran it up through the gears you got some rumble, but when you let off the gas you got a lot of pops and cracks from the over run and they were LOUD. After a while this got tiresome, to the point where I wondered if they built too much noise into the car in search of an an acceptable exhaust note. The overun noises on the 981 are way dialed down compared to the 718S.

718 w/PDK:
Less exhaust noise at start up. Coming on to a street, you need a more throttle to get the car moving. I switch over to manual, switched to paddles and engaged Sport mode and that seemed to fix things a bit, but in auto mode there doesn't seem to be much going on throttle response-wise. Put it back in auto mode, engaged sport mode and started getting on it. After a few stabs at it, it's clear this engine has more boost lag and there didn't seem to be the same rush at 3K up to 6K in the S. It seemed like you had to get way more into the rev range--4k+ --to get it to move. My friend and I were both disappointed with the engine response and thought for $74K there are a lot more interesting cars out their than a 718 base w/PDK.
The outside temps might have had something to do with this with ambient temps in the low 90's. Turbos lose power as the heat goes up and we both thought this might have been the culprit. BTW, the oils temps in the 718S after spirited driving--with sport mode engaged--was approaching 250 deg.F. It made me wonder how hot the oil might get on the track on a warm day.

Last--the 718 base exhaust noise at idle was just like a VW bug of old--amazing.

Conclusions:
The 718S is a good looking, good handling and fast car with an exhaust note that is louder and raspier than it needs to be.
The Base 718 w/PDK driven today was something I would not consider, especially given it's high price. BTW, I have driven both the 981 2.7 with manual and PDK and enjoyed the engine response of those two cars way more than the 718.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2016 07:17PM by MikenOH. (view changes)

Thanks for the great write-up of your experience with the 718's, Mike. Since you drive a 981, it's easier for you to compare the two than it would be for a journalist who's driven other cars between the 981 and now the 718.

Your experience with the 718's turbo losing power due to warm temperatures was an interesting observation, specially for those who live in the southern states. With warmer air being less dense, the turbo has to work harder to compress the air. So it not only has to work harder, but also will likely run hotter and less efficiently. That could account for the high 250 F oil temperatures you observed. North of the border, we were also into the 90's today. We attended an event in Toronto and on the way home had a little fun with the spirited driving through some twisty back roads. Highest oil temperature I observed was 109 C = 228 F. Obviously it wasn't race track speeds, but it was spirited driving.

With the engine running hotter, likely due to the turbo, I wonder just how that will effect the longevity of the engine. On top of that, you have the added complexity of the turbo, which apparently makes the engine compartment a very tightly packed area (which I imagine would also add more heat since there's less space for air to circulate), more so than in the 981. I wonder if at some point they'll have to try to add an intercooler for people that drive them on the track (IF they have room to fit one in somehow.)

Auto Motor und Sport, which I consider the top German car magazine, made virtually the same comments as yours about the sound of the engine - that it sounded somewhere between a Subaru and VW Beetle with almost a forced / fake popping and crackling. This was made even worse when PSE was engaged because it just amplified the noise (their term).

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Guenter in Ontario
I wonder if at some point they'll have to try to add an intercooler for people that drive them on the track (IF they have room to fit one in somehow.)

.

The 718 DOES have an intercooler.

Air to liquid.

[blog.caranddriver.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2016 06:52PM by Tcar. (view changes)

Thanks for the article. Lots of technical info on the 718 engines. Seems Porsche has tried to negate the effects of heat on the turbo performance as much as they can.

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Tcar

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Guenter in Ontario
I wonder if at some point they'll have to try to add an intercooler for people that drive them on the track (IF they have room to fit one in somehow.)

.

The 718 DOES have an intercooler.

Air to liquid.

[blog.caranddriver.com]

I'm thinking the heat exchangers (oil coolers) that we all have on our 986/987/981 engines were included on the turbo 4 but I could not find them on the pictures. Does anyone have any info regarding the oil cooling system on the 718?

Regarding the heat exchangers/oil coolers on the previous generation Boxsters, i had my reservations about how effective they might be when I read how they worked, but from the readings on the 981 oil temp gauge you can see that they are very effective on the track--dropping oil temps by roughly 20 degrees.

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MikenOH
Regarding the heat exchangers/oil coolers on the previous generation Boxsters, i had my reservations about how effective they might be when I read how they worked, but from the readings on the 981 oil temp gauge you can see that they are very effective on the track--dropping oil temps by roughly 20 degrees.

Although I don't track my 981, I agree that after a spirited drive, I'm surprised at how quickly the oil temperature can drop once driving in a more relaxed mode or even having to come to a stop.

On the topic of temperatures, I sure wish that Porsche would show us the real coolant temperatures. Basically, all the coolant temperature gauge is good for is to let us know it's reached operating temperature. Once it's at 90 C = 194 F, the gauges is pegged at that temperature for the rest of the drive, leaving us relying on the idiot light if the engine overheats. In this regard, I find the oil temperature gauge much more useful as it seems to give actual temperatures.

Just a couple of quibbles: I doubt heat had anything to do with the performance. Had my 996 Turbo out today in 101F to 104F heat and the engine was as strong as ever. Yesterday it was the Boxster's turn and while the temps only got to 99F the Boxster was pullng strong and hard when called upon.

The 718 Boxster base doesn't have the variable vane turbo like the S. IIRC the base gets more boost than the S (19psi vs. 14 psi IRRC) but undoubtedly it comes on higher in tjhe RPM range.

The base probably requires a different driving technique to keep RPMs up some to reduce turbo lag - even my 996 Turbo requires this -- and so there is less distance (less RPMs) to climb before tjhe engine gets into the fat spot fo its torque band.

The $74K price for the base though is ridiculous. That's in the price range of a nice low miles used 997 911.

Not sure what's up with the oil temperature. I have no experience withe newer cars other than I spent a week or so in a new diesel Porsche Cayenne and one thing I noticed was how hot the oil got even when not pushing the car hard at all. I can't recall how hot the oil got but close to 250F I'm sure. Hot enough I worried about it to wornder if it was normal and spoke with the SM and techs who assured me it was normal and nothing to worry about.

I have no direct experience but I have read posts by owners of the previous MY cars and in sport mode the word I remember is coolant temperature and I guess oil tempearture too drops some as the sport mode activation has the DME allow more coolant flow to drop the engine temperature to compensate for the expected higiher temperatures soon to come.

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MarcW

The $74K price for the base though is ridiculous. That's in the price range of a nice low miles used 997 911.

Not sure what's up with the oil temperature. I have no experience withe newer cars other than I spent a week or so in a new diesel Porsche Cayenne and one thing I noticed was how hot the oil got even when not pushing the car hard at all. I can't recall how hot the oil got but close to 250F I'm sure. Hot enough I worried about it to wornder if it was normal and spoke with the SM and techs who assured me it was normal and nothing to worry about.

I have no direct experience but I have read posts by owners of the previous MY cars and in sport mode the word I remember is coolant temperature and I guess oil tempearture too drops some as the sport mode activation has the DME allow more coolant flow to drop the engine temperature to compensate for the expected higiher temperatures soon to come.

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Regarding the price on the 718--A good friend picked up a 2010 997.2 C4S cab with under 10K on it for nearly $15K less than the sticker on that 718 PDK equipped car I drove and I have to say that car was way more fun to drive than the base 718.

Regarding oil temps, the highest I've ever seen on the 981 has been 250 deg.F at the end of a 25 minute session a Mid-OH with ambient temps around 90 and Sport mode on.

During "spirited" driving during the hot summer months the oil temp on the 981 stays roughly 210-215 Deg. F. with sport mode on; with sport mode off 230 deg. is normal during the summer. Seeing the 718S with an oil temp of 250 deg. with sport mode on driving on the street of a 90 degree day was more than a little surprising, relative to the 981.
As I've mentioned before, if I was interested in buying a 718S and driving it at the track--and I think it would be a heck of a track car--I would want to see how this car handled the heat on the track before I wrote the check. Maybe a trip to the Porsche driving experience facility in Atlanta would be in order to make sure the car was going to to be up how it might be used.

Hot air probably has less impact on the 996 Turbo over the 718 due to displacement. Wonder what the HP rating for your 996 vs 718 would be without turbo charging. Your 996 would still have some noticeable get up and go. The 718, probably not.

The MSRP for the base 718 is $56k, which translates to $38k in 1998 dollars. The base price of the Boxster in 1998 was $40k.

So the price has gone down. There are more options but the pre-optioned car is roughly the same as it was in 1998.

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Boxsterra
The MSRP for the base 718 is $56k, which translates to $38k in 1998 dollars. The base price of the Boxster in 1998 was $40k.

So the price has gone down. There are more options but the pre-optioned car is roughly the same as it was in 1998.

You're correct--in constant dollars, the new car is less expensive than the 986.
Having said that, the same holds true to many other performance cars due what car makers have done to cut down on overhead/labor/parts expense.

Regarding that particular car, here is the list of options(numers rounded):

20" Carrera Classic Wheels-------------------------------------------------------------$2800
Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK)-------------------------------------------------------$3200
Premium Package Plus (Sport Seats, 14-way)-------------------------------------$3200
Power Sport Seats (14-way) with Memory Package------------------------------$2300
Navigation Module for Porsche Communication Management (PCM)-------$1700
Connect Plus--------------------------------------------------------------------------------$1300
BOSE Surround Sound System -------------------------------------------------------$1000
Power Steering Plus-----------------------------------------------------------------------$300
Wheel Center Caps with Colored Porsche Crest-----------------------------------$200
Paint------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $600
Launch Vehicle


Essentially, they added an automatic tranny, power seats, larger wheels, better sound system and NAV---not exactly exotic options and probably set up the way a lot of people might want it.

You start with a $56K car, add these particular options and--wha la--you have a $74K car; the seats and premium package by themselves $5500; audio/NAV is $4K--crazy to me but people will buy it.

You look at this options list and it's pretty clear than many car markers now include the items in the option package as standard equipment especially in this price range. The pricing on those seats and Premium package to go with it really made my eyes roll.

But there is a glimmer of good news, Guenter--according to the configurator, GT Silver paint is now only $640!

Last--the car came with the newest edition of the PZero tire (PZ4) and they felt better than the earlier model PZero on our car--very grippy, good turn in, the ride felt more supple and seemed a bit quieter on the highway. Tire rack has them priced at around $1500/set!
At that price I don't think I'll be buying them to replace our OE set next year when the time comes.

GR 981S 6spd/PTV/SS



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2016 11:27AM by MikenOH. (view changes)

and the most expensive options I got were hard top and full leather.

My 1999 986 loaded, adjusted for inflation was $78k.

Are you seeing competing cars that are cheaper because those options are included in the base price? At least the Boxster has an included sunroof.

I looked back at what we paid for our old 1990 Miata-- an A package car--and the price was right around $16k in 1990. Applying the inflation adjuster to 2016 prices it comes out to about $30k.
The 2016 Miata sport is the equivalent of our old car has an MSRP of about $26K or more than 10% less in constant dollars for a much better car. As your figures show, the current Boxster is less expensive in constant dollars and is a much better car than the 986--all things considered. So, this trend of more value for fewer relative dollars I think has become the norm in the auto business looking back 20 years or so.
Many car makers--especially Japanese--throw lots freebie electronic stuff into their cars that Porsche charges for, which ends up kicking the price up substantially if those options are considered "got to have" with the buyer.
There were options on that $74K base 718 I could have lived without, but power seats, upgraded audio and an automatic tranny are considered mandatory by some and on the 718 that adds a minimum of $6-7K quickly. Add your destination fee, maybe 19" wheels and a special color and you're looking at another $3K or $66k.
To me that's a lot of $ and the car needs to be special to command that kind of price. Driving that particular car on that day, that 718 seemed very ordinary and not worth the $.
The 718S OTOH was a hoot--if could deal with the exhaust.

I need to drive a stick.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Given you own a 981S, and drove the 718S and 718 back-to-back, your impressions of the 718 carry a lot of weight, in my books.

Based on the 'numbers' alone, for torque and h.p., I wouldn't have guessed that the 718 would be as uninspiring as it is.
I can appreciate how the 718S impresses with tons of torque, beginning at low rpm's, and very little turbo lag.

I will be surprised if Porsche is able to fix the sound. From your comments and those of other reviews, PSE now stands for 'Painful Sound Experience'.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2016 02:22PM by MikenOH. (view changes)