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Interesting point of view. Also makes me think about the various threads about what mods to do to get more power while ignoring tires, brakes, and suspension.

[www.thedrive.com]

MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige. Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010
A bit more
grant - 2 years ago
The gist of the discussion is that old tires are at fault. Maybe.

here's the section i want to comment on:

Quote
The Drive
I know no one wants to hear this, but I’m going to say it: Roger was a great driver, and actually quite conservative. And if he had a new set of tires on the car, that crash wouldn’t have happened, because 90 mph on that corner is nothing for a Carrera GT. With old tires, it’s not like you get oversteer or understeer, and you then correct, and back it down. They seem fine one minute, you hit the brakes or turn the wheel, and then they are just gone. You’re a passenger. Or, at least I was, back at Spring Mountain in 2012.


Earlier, he hits on an even more likely factor, but leave it lying. The tires were stone cold. Stone cold tires, new or old, can be treacherous - less grip, but more importantly, the same kind of "got it now, don;t got it now" grip he refers to. I see experienced drivers lose it on the first lap way too often.

So old - yes, bad. Cold - maybe worse. Either way, poor judgement.

By the way, his own story about himself on the track indicated that he's either careless or a bit clueless on this topic. Two spin on the first lap? really? And he doesnt know why?

Grant

Grant gee-lenahan-at-vee-eff-email-dot-net
keep the replacement wheels/tires in electrically heated blankets to assure that the worst of the "not up to racing temperatures" are kept under control.
Re: A bit more
frogster - 2 years ago
Quote
grant
.

By the way, his own story about himself on the track indicated that he's either careless or a bit clueless on this topic. Two spin on the first lap? really? And he doesnt know why?

Grant

I got the impression that he didn't know why when it happened but that event taught him the lesson and he learned about tires afterwards. Now he's sharing what he has learned.

I look back at all the stupid things I did when I was a kid and sometimes wonder how I made it this far.

MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige. Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010
"I look back at all the stupid things I did when I was a kid and sometimes wonder how I made it this far."

The key thing is that Paul and the driver should have known. They raced.

And his basic point that it could have been the tires is good.

First autocross runs of the day, especially in the cool spring, can be major embarrassments!

Grant gee-lenahan-at-vee-eff-email-dot-net
Quote
grant
"I look back at all the stupid things I did when I was a kid and sometimes wonder how I made it this far."

The key thing is that Paul and the driver should have known. They raced.

And his basic point that it could have been the tires is good.

First autocross runs of the day, especially in the cool spring, can be major embarrassments!
Bingo!
Cold, old tires are a perfect formula for getting sideways if you're driving fast, even if you don't have 500 HP.
.
His death was caused by excessive speed in an inappropriate venue. In other words, lack of judgement. Old tires just reinforce the lack of judgement.
Quote
Crooster
His death was caused by excessive speed in an inappropriate venue. In other words, lack of judgement. Old tires just reinforce the lack of judgement.

True...I don't think it was the tires. Even old tires can hold the car down at slower speeds. They were going like 90mph on a city street. The speed is what killed them. If they were going 35mph or whatever the speed limit was on that street, the tires would have held.
well, yes, but
grant - 2 years ago
We know they were speeding. They knew they were speeding. But people don't usually die fiery deaths from speeding - there's MORE bad judgement or bad luck in most cases. Per the author, and I have not seen the scene, they could do what they did, at the speed they did, "in a Prius", and in their minds were not taking such a huge risk. The point, i believe is that both cold and old tires caused the car to have a) less grip and b) less linear breakaway.

Now, MY point was "and any driver with any [track] experience ought to know this". So its back to judgement, - btu not necessarily for going fast.

Grant gee-lenahan-at-vee-eff-email-dot-net
Quote
grant
We know they were speeding. They knew they were speeding. But people don't usually die fiery deaths from speeding - there's MORE bad judgement or bad luck in most cases. Per the author, and I have not seen the scene, they could do what they did, at the speed they did, "in a Prius", and in their minds were not taking such a huge risk. The point, i believe is that both cold and old tires caused the car to have a) less grip and b) less linear breakaway.

Now, MY point was "and any driver with any [track] experience ought to know this". So its back to judgement, - btu not necessarily for going fast.
I agree it was poor judgement, but due to them speeding. Yes, they should have made sure the tires were good, but you should know better than to go 90 on a public city road.


Grant gee-lenahan-at-vee-eff-email-dot-net
the car can be a handful, so I've read having never driven one even ridden in one.

One has to respect a car that fast. Heck when I switch from my Boxster to my Turbo I have to mentally switch gears and remember I can't drive the Turbo like I drive the Boxster. Full throttle in the Boxster gets it going plenty fast and quickly too, but full throttle in the Turbo can have the car way beyond where my mind envisioned it being. Almost double the HP can do that. And the Carrera GT has 605hp compared to my Turbo's 415hp and weighs in at around 3000lbs vs. my Turbo's nearly 3400lbs.

I could see someone not used to the Carrera GT -- even though the someone owns one -- getting in and without the time to consider what car he is in hammering on the gas pedal but the Carrera GT is just well, a Carrera GT, and one can get in over his head in no time. (One sees this in videos where someone in a pretty powerful muscle car -- but no where near as powerful at the Carrera GT -- decides to accelerate away from a light or a stop sign and the car takes off but in no time it is out of shape and the car runs up over a curb or worse. The "classic" is the video of two rather late model Corvettes taking off from a green light in an impromptu drag race and one getting out of shape and in leaving the pavement taking the other Corvette off the road with it.)

Had the Carrera GT had better tires maybe it might not have impacted what it did. Instead it might have clipped it and rolled about a dozen times or in some other fashion had a horrible accident with the same sad result.
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