Re: 718, the sound and the fury...

There seems to be a consensus among reviewers, thankfully including the relatively few written by reporters who can put a sentence together and are not just copying from what is already out there, that the 718 is a remarkably good car, better than the competition, other than the sound. The latest I've seen is this one, comparing it to the Jaguar F-Type (really? you guys think this is the modernized E-Type? I'd rather go for the new Fiata): [www.yahoo.com]. I particularly like this one's statement that the 718's "flat-six aria vocal cords have been snipped in favor of a flatulent turbocharged flat four."

Really, sound? That's the problem? Seems to me that German ingenuity that has built a number of topline cars, produced some of the world's great literature and (somewhat unsuccessfully) marched across Europe twice in the last hundred years can deal with this problem. Maybe they should bring in some consultants from Harley Davidson.

2001 Base, purchased in 2004, replaced engine at 130K+, RIP 2017



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2016 11:53AM by JackintheBoxster. (view changes)

And while the sound is a big part of the disappointment, it's not the only thing.

Yes, the 718 is quicker, but many feel there's more to the sports car experience than simply numbers.

[www.topgear.com]‎

[m.youtube.com]

[m.youtube.com]

who don't think that sound is the thing that makes a sports car and who don't wind the tach up to touch the red line very often will be the ones buying the car.

Practical, well built, comfortable, track-able, infinitely customize-able from the factory (I'm always amazed at the number of PTO cars), smooth, responsive, safe, powerful, reasonably economical on fuel, available with an auto-trans for the many who don't drive stick or are existing in crowded cities, positive image, easy to drive quick, fun, meets 50 states emission standards, etc.

But expensive.

Sales numbers and depreciation? Time will tell.

5 sports cars, zero exhaust mods.

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JackintheBoxster
There seems to be a consensus among reviewers, thankfully including the relatively few written by reporters who can put a sentence together and are not just copying from what is already out there, that the 718 is a remarkably good car, better than the competition, other than the sound. The latest I've seen is this one, comparing it to the Jaguar F-Type (really? you guys think this is the modernized E-Type? I'd rather go for the new Fiata): [www.yahoo.com]. I particularly like this one's statement that the 718's "flat-six aria vocal cords have been snipped in favor of a flatulent turbocharged flat four."

Really, sound? That's the problem? Seems to me that German ingenuity that has built a number of topline cars, produced some of the world's great literature and (somewhat unsuccessfully) marched across Europe twice in the last hundred years can deal with this problem. Maybe they should bring in some consultants from Harley Davidson.

Currently owning a turbo 4 and have listened to a number of WRXs on the track, you can get a better sounding exhaust note out of a turbo 4 than what is currently on the 718. It may take some tinkering but there is no doubt in my mind it can be done.

Mike, that begs the question - why didn't Porsche do it?

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Roger987
Mike, that begs the question - why didn't Porsche do it?

There is a good reason for why the car sounds like it does--possibly a result of the plumbing downstream of the intake especially on the S--but at the end of the day, there has to be a way of either suppressing or disguising the cacophony that is now coming out of the exhaust pipe.
Personally, I'd rather have an exhaust note that was inoffensive to a fault--like the 986 2.5l--than the one on the 718S, which sounds needlessly loud in the attempt to sound sporting.

.. but nothing like its 4.2L v8 replacement.

Which, Ill note has been dropped into boxsters.... hmmmmmmm

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

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JackintheBoxster
...... Really, sound? That's the problem?........

You got it. At least in my view, it's part of the problem.

After I'd heard a number of 718 Boxsters on YouTube, I had posted here, that there just didn't seem to be any sense of urgency in the sound of the new 718 Boxster. It just didn't sound exciting. At least for me, a sports cars should feel exciting every time you drive it. If you just want a car that gets you from here to there, there are lots of less expensive cars that can do that for you. When I had a salesman fire up a 718, it reminded my of my Karmann Ghia, with its flat 4 engine. It had an extractor exhaust. Yes. it sounded great in its day, but not anything like the flat sixes in the 911 at that time. If Porsche put this turbo flat 4 into a sub Boxster sports car and sold it for $35K - $40K, that would be great. But, we're talking about a car that starts in the $65K range without any options here in Canada. I guess that Porsche spoiled us with that fabulous flat six in the Boxsters until now.

The other part of the problem, to me, is the added complexity of the turbocharger and the potential problems it can bring.

Unfortunately, Porsche felt it had to do this to improve fuel efficiency in the European test cycle. According to that cycle, they claimed an improvement of 14%. But now, the Europeans are finding that their test cycle doesn't have much resemblance to real world driving and they're now going to changing their testing methods. In the Canadian test cycle, the 718 actually gets worse mileage than the 981 does.

So it's not that the 718 is a bad car. I think it's still the best car in its class. I'm sure it outhandles all the competition. The 718, over all, just is not quite as good as the 981 that it replaces. It just doesn't generate the same excitement that the previous Boxsters did.

Just listen to these two videos. Which car sounds more exciting? If you think they're both equal, I'm sure you'll be completely satisfied with the new 718.

718 Boxster
[www.topgear.com]

Boxster GTS
[www.youtube.com]

I know IF I were in the market right now, I'd be searching the dealer websites for any remaining 981's.

Two terrific videos that cut to the chase on the sound issue--one good, one not so good.

Regarding the GTS, we had the chance to drive one last year at Mid-OH (w/PDK) and have to say we both laughed out loud when I got on it coming out of a turn on to the back straight--it wailed!

I thought Chris's review was likewise on the money-- improvements for sure, but one huge step backwards with the exhaust note.

Anyway, the buying public will make the call on whether Porsche got it right with this car in it's totality or not.

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Guenter in Ontario

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JackintheBoxster
...... Really, sound? That's the problem?........

You got it. At least in my view, it's part of the problem.

After I'd heard a number of 718 Boxsters on YouTube, I had posted here, that there just didn't seem to be any sense of urgency in the sound of the new 718 Boxster. It just didn't sound exciting. At least for me, a sports cars should feel exciting every time you drive it. If you just want a car that gets you from here to there, there are lots of less expensive cars that can do that for you. When I had a salesman fire up a 718, it reminded my of my Karmann Ghia, with its flat 4 engine. It had an extractor exhaust. Yes. it sounded great in its day, but not anything like the flat sixes in the 911 at that time. If Porsche put this turbo flat 4 into a sub Boxster sports car and sold it for $35K - $40K, that would be great. But, we're talking about a car that starts in the $65K range without any options here in Canada. I guess that Porsche spoiled us with that fabulous flat six in the Boxsters until now.

The other part of the problem, to me, is the added complexity of the turbocharger and the potential problems it can bring.

Unfortunately, Porsche felt it had to do this to improve fuel efficiency in the European test cycle. According to that cycle, they claimed an improvement of 14%. But now, the Europeans are finding that their test cycle doesn't have much resemblance to real world driving and they're now going to changing their testing methods. In the Canadian test cycle, the 718 actually gets worse mileage than the 981 does.

So it's not that the 718 is a bad car. I think it's still the best car in its class. I'm sure it outhandles all the competition. The 718, over all, just is not quite as good as the 981 that it replaces. It just doesn't generate the same excitement that the previous Boxsters did.

Just listen to these two videos. Which car sounds more exciting? If you think they're both equal, I'm sure you'll be completely satisfied with the new 718.

718 Boxster
[www.topgear.com]

Boxster GTS
[www.youtube.com]

I know IF I were in the market right now, I'd be searching the dealer websites for any remaining 981's.

God, I've watched that GTS video with Henry Catchpole about 100 times! The scenery, the roads and - the 981 BGTS sound is absolutely amazing! Like many, and maybe most here, I am in the PCA Fall raffle. If Vu Nguyen shows up at my door, I have to say - as tempting as it might be to get the new 718 Cayman S - I think I'd take the $85k and buy my wife a nice Macan. The NA6 in my old 986 still sounds damn good.

Well, the 914 has returned with a vengeance! The exhaust note of a four will never match the rich harmonics of a six or a twelve. Frankly, I've never understood the attraction to the V8 sound, either. It's fine, I guess, but to me that six (or twelve) whine is "car music". As a musician by profession, I revel in the howl.

But all that said, I grew up in the sixties with my father's 912, which was a lovely car. Not fast, but lovely, and the exhaust note was very pleasing, but certainly not up to the shriek of the air cooled 911.

It makes me wonder...the 911 starts about $25k higher in price, am I correct? I think Porsche has longed to put more of a difference in the two cars for a long time, and now they've done it, and I think that if the new Boxster's sales numbers are high enough, the four is here to stay. Porsche has been careful to keep the Boxster in its place...with the same engine as the 911 (and corresponding tweaks), the Boxster would handily thump a 911. Lighter, better handling because of a much more modern mid-engine design. You 911 folks, don't pile on. I love the 911, but it's design is rather antiquated. Hanging an engine off the back doesn't make for a great handling car. Porsche knew this from the 550 Spyder on: the way to make a car handle better is to put the engine somewhere between the wheels. Heck, by the late fifties, EVERYBODY knew this, even the Brits, either 25/64ths spanners and Lucas electrics.The motto for an employed Lucas owner?Put in eight hours-but get home before dark!

As for the 914 reference, well, they hadn't forgotten it back then, too. How could they? The 904 (the best Porsche, imho), the 906, et cetera.The 914/6 had a rather anemic 2 L-they sure as heck weren't going to make a 914/6 "S". And Porsche only made about 3300 914/6's. They didn't want to encourage competition in their own line. The 916 was as close as a 914S came-with a whopping eleven cars produced. Even then the handwriting was on the wall. And they made the 914 kinda homely-remember the styling excercises for the 914 by Albrecht Goertz and Giugiaro? There you have it, it didn't have to be homely.

Now Porsche has the Boxster right where they want it-fast, sure, but with a very major part of the game now relegated to the much more expensive 911. You can go very fast, but know your place. You are "entry level". Porsche knows how to get better mileage in the "driving cycle" with the six, they didn't wanna. Bottom line for me? It sucks.

I seem to remember that in the days of hot rods, everyone's car sounded different. You didn't just go buy a car that sounded great. I'm sure someone here will correct me but that's my recollection. One would actually piece together their own idea of perfection and with that came individuality.
I think the same was true for rock and pop music. Bands sounded like they did because they would put together the pieces they needed to get that sound. I remember being able to identify band based on two seconds of listening. Today you just plug your guitar into a box and voilà, instant Van Halen.
Same with cars these days. Go to dealer, whip out check-book, and roll out with a "cool" sounding car, burbles, crackles, and all. No scraped knuckles or grease under your nails.
So everyone's cool exhaust sounds the same. No more individuality.
It won't matter anymore soon. Well all be driving electric cars that are virtually silent and exhaust noise will be a thing of the past.

--
MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige.
Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010

I doubt this guy will ever buy Tesla...

[youtu.be]

Magnus won't likely ever buy a Porsche at a dealer. He likes the older Porsches and customizes them himself.

He actually buys the cars to use as Porsche intended. No texting, nav, Burmeister, PDK, connectivity. The adrenaline rush comes from the pure experience of driving, shifting, steering and maintaining control while conducting the Symphony in Flat Six doing what it was built for. He'd never get excited about riding around in a 4 wheeled infotainment system.

I didn't watch the video earlier but wow, what a sound! Guenter, you hit the nail squarely on the head.
I just realized that my post could have been interpreted meaning that old exhaust sounds don't matter. Far from it, they are the only ones that matter. It's the new ones that don't matter.
That video inspired me to go find an old 911 and make it sound like the one on the video.

--
MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige.
Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010

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Guenter in Ontario
Magnus won't likely ever buy a Porsche at a dealer. He likes the older Porsches and customizes them himself.

He actually buys the cars to use as Porsche intended. No texting, nav, Burmeister, PDK, connectivity. The adrenaline rush comes from the pure experience of driving, shifting, steering and maintaining control while conducting the Symphony in Flat Six doing what it was built for. He'd never get excited about riding around in a 4 wheeled infotainment system.

Hey, that describes my 986 to a tee!

It appears those sounds are passé for some.

I recall a group of us (Boxster drivers) standing beside a roadster after looking it over. One of us looked up while we were talking ......and it was gone. Just disappeared.

Yup. It was a



Sure got our hearts pumping once we got back to our cars and fired them up.

Just came back from a Cars and Coffee event, and there were a lot of folks who don't think sound is passé. First time I have heard a CGT rev up close and it sounds better than a modern F1 car!





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/13/2016 12:24PM by boxtaboy. (view changes)

After reading the replies, I'm not entirely sure that my post was interpreted in the way I intended it to be.

I love the sound of a nice exhaust. I really loved the sound of a nice exhaust when they were "hand made" and expressed individuality as opposed to the "go out and buy a car with a cool sounding exhaust" of today. Like everything else, instant gratification with zero effort or creative input required. Kind of like the torn jeans fashion of today. The first ones to wear jeans with tears were the ones who actually tore them, either intentionally or by accident. Now all the kids just go out and buy them that way. No individuality or creativity.

So the point of my post was that exhaust sounds have become fashion and fashions pass, thus exhaust sounds will pass. That day is not too far off since we'll all be driving electric cars at some point in the future. Gasoline will be banned. It has already begun: German Lawmakers Vote To Ban Petrol And Diesel Cars By 2030.

I was just waxing philosophical which is hard to get across in text.

And as for #neverelectric? You might need to make sure you have a comfortable pair of shoes then in the not too distant future.

--
MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige.
Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010

[www.detroitnews.com]

The proposal would require electric car traveling under 19 mph to give off a noise that would alert those that are visually impaired of their presence.

So instead of an exhaust note, you'll have---beep, beep, beep

I read that in today's news as well. Ughhh. It's finished guys, it's finished.

--
MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige.
Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010

Don't worry, there still will be the sound of a roaring engine. It'll just be piped in, and simulated...

[youtu.be]

fake stuff.

I didn't hear him mention it, but I bet there's even a bluetooth connection to your pacemaker to speed up your heart with fake excitement.