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Re: Maybe this will help you understand, Gary


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The Boxster / Cayman sales take another big hit. Down by about 40% from last June when there were still some 981's available.

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This might be more of a four cylinder issue, instead of a Turbo thing. Regardless, that's a huge drop off. Hope it doesn't give the number crunchers the data they need to ax the model all together.
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db997S
This might be more of a four cylinder issue, instead of a Turbo thing. Regardless, that's a huge drop off. Hope it doesn't give the number crunchers the data they need to ax the model all together.

I agree. I don't think it's just a turbo thing. The combination of the 4 cylinder and turbo robs the Boxster of the unique character that we've become used to. I think that Chris Harris said it best in the video I had posted before. It's a great car, just not as good as the one you could buy last year.

I'm hoping that the driving enthusiasts at Porsche will see fit to bring out a flat six version for those who don't mind giving up a few tenths of second to get an exciting car again.
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Guenter in Ontario

.....I think that Chris Harris said it best in the video I had posted before. It's a great car, just not as good as the one you could buy last year.

I'm hoping that the driving enthusiasts at Porsche will see fit to bring out a flat six version for those who don't mind giving up a few tenths of second to get an exciting car again.

Nothing like redundantly beating a dead horse over and over. eye rolling smiley

Suggesting the 718 isn't exciting is both self serving and wrong. Porsche knows quite well that weekend road cruisers are not true sports car 'enthusiasts', that the difference is more than 'a few tenths of a second', and that these folks won't pay the premium to buy a non GT, NA six. Get real.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."


"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Roger, I'm sure that Gary has his own opinion as to why Boxsters and Caymans have taken a significant drop in sales since the introduction of the 4 cylinder turbos.

I've been waiting, but so far, he has chooses to not share his insight with the rest of us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2017 10:49AM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)
To some extent, though, I think Porsche ownership for many is the bragging rights, and saying it is a four cylinder is right up there with the econo boxes of the world. When it comes down to it, just how many Porsche sports car drivers are enthusiasts? They don't want their friends snickering behind their backs that they paid $70K for a four cylinder. They want to boast and make friends and family envious. That has been part of sports car ownership, since the first sports car was sold commercially, and will always be part of sports car ownership. I really think Porsche should have figured out how to shrink a turbo six to fit in the Boxster package. This four cylinder thing, maybe the death bell for the beloved Boxster. Just aren't enough enthusiasts out there buying new sports cars. Many opt for the used. I was a kid when the 914 was out. Even grade schoolers knew it had a four cylinder VW engine, and snicked about it. Me, I still thought it was a cool car. Same with the 924, wasn't it a four, and it was much maligned in the sports car world. Can't discount size matters.
... neither one survived long-term.
I expect the same from the 718.
The common denominator is the 4 cylinders, whether flat or not.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla 1998 Boxster 986 - 280,000+ miles: http://www.PedrosGarage.com
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
The 4 cylinder does seem to be the common denominator.

The 912 was never intended as a long term model. When the 911 was introduced, Porsche was still producing the 356. Once 356 production stopped, the 912 was produced as a stop gap entry level car until the 914 was ready for production.

The 914, the 944, and the 968 - they just didn't have the flat six that one expected of a Porsche sports car.

It might have been a different story if Porsche had built the 914/6 from the outset, instead of using the VW flat four at the beginning.
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Guenter in Ontario

The 914, the 944, and the 968 - they just didn't have the flat six that one expected of a Porsche sports car.

another common denominator among those three cars is that none of them were designed to be porsches. from memory, i think that the 944/968 were designed to be Audis? but then Audi bailed and Porsche decided to build and sell the car themselves. And wasn't the 914 sold as a volkswagen in n. america? or was that in europe and in n. america it was a "full fledged porsche." i can't remember.

MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige. Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010
The 914 was a joint project with Volkswagen.
The 4 cylinder would be branded and sold by VW and it was the replacement of the Karman Ghia while the 914-6 would be Porsche's entry level car.
Right around that time there was a change at VW and the new CEO who was not fond of Porsche, decided not to share tooling with Porsche, which forced Porsche to build their own and therefore increased the cost dramatically.
The 924 was another joint project with VW. Right when the car was ready to go into production, VW bailed out in favor of producing the Scirocco and Porsche took over completely.
It did have an Audi-based engine and was originally designed to have an Audi tranny up front. When Porsche took over they decided to use a rear transaxle sourced from VW.
Happy Porscheing
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla 1998 Boxster 986 - 280,000+ miles: http://www.PedrosGarage.com
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
thanks for the history refresher, pedro. effectively though, i think my statement that none of those cars were originally intended to be Porsches is true. Even the 914-6 was destined to be a Porsche while the 4 was not.

MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige. Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010
Well, maybe it's just me, but I quite liked my 944. Yeah, it didn't have a lot of power, but it did handle great, looked great (better than most other cars of that era IMO), and garnered a lot of positive attention. Very similar, in those respects with my Boxster, and it's what got me interested in Porsches. I still miss it. Porsche stopped making it, but replaced it with something better. If they stop making the Boxster/Cayman now due to bad sales, so be it...people vote with their wallets, and maybe they'll replace it with a better formula.


naturally aspirated four cylinders in line longitudinal front engine with 236 HP, and 225 ft-lbs of torque, most of it available down low. I surprised a lot of automatic 911's on the track. The end of the line came in 1995 due to list prices creeping up over $50K and bumping into the flag ship 911, not to mention Porsche plans for the more profitable to them 986, coming on in 1997.

Change is not always progress....

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
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Gary in SoFL
Change is not always progress....

We agree there!
The 928 did not have a long run either and it was an eight cylinder.
The 924/944 actually had a long run from 1975-1988 with 150,000 units sold .
The 914-6 was actually a better short track car then it's sibling the 911 was at the time. It was expensive to produce and too close in price to the 911.
As someone pointed out the 912 was an entry level and gap car for Porsche and not intended to be a long term model.
The 718 is faster and more powerful than its Boxster/Cayman predecessors even with the four banger motor.
The biggest complaint about it is the sound from the motor which is not like the previous models of a flat siz.
I remember people complaining about the sound of the early water cooled 986/996 models
was that they were the bottom-end Porsche, aka "the poor man's Porsche".
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Gary in SoFL
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Guenter in Ontario

.....I think that Chris Harris said it best in the video I had posted before. It's a great car, just not as good as the one you could buy last year.

I'm hoping that the driving enthusiasts at Porsche will see fit to bring out a flat six version for those who don't mind giving up a few tenths of second to get an exciting car again.

Nothing like redundantly beating a dead horse over and over. eye rolling smiley

Suggesting the 718 isn't exciting is both self serving and wrong. Porsche knows quite well that weekend road cruisers are not true sports car 'enthusiasts', that the difference is more than 'a few tenths of a second', and that these folks won't pay the premium to buy a non GT, NA six. Get real.

Correct, but while you're showing off your Rolex and latest $1,000 phone it's hard to point to your new 4 cylinder car. I think Porsche has misjudged their market.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2017 11:30AM by old timer. (view changes)
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old timer

Correct, but while you're showing off your Rolex and latest $1,000 phone it's hard to point to your new 4 cylinder car. I think Porsche has misjudged their market.

Porsche may have misjudged their future market; time will tell, not the first few months when decent inventory was in short supply, especially Cayman's, except for loaded floor model $90K+ 718S's. I will never own a 718, but there's no denying it's an exciting, fast, superb handling, sports car, despite what one weekend boulevard cruising Boxster detailer around here keeps harping about.

The type of people who would be impressed with diamond encrusted Rolex watches or iPhone 10's wouldn't know a 4 cylinder from a V12, ce...I mean old timer.

If the 718 is the swan song for the very low volume Boxster/Cayman line, it doesn't bode well for us or Porsche.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
By many accounts, the downsizing of the engine and adding turbos was a direct response to governmental requirements. I am not expert, but my understanding is that the OEM's must show certain fleet fuel economy standards. Apparently, the test protocols strongly favor small engines with big turbos. As usual, the testing protocol misses the mark as the test regime does not reflect any real world driving situation. But you cannot fight city hall

I am betting Porsche, and many other companies are going to have an "economy" car in their fleet in order to meet increasingly severe standards. Porsche decided to make a sports car rather then simply re-badging a VW Polo. To be honest, I would have been happier if they kept a 6 cylinder and made the P-polo as a sop to the government fleet standards. They could have charged $500K for it for all I care, then the intelligentsia can claim the moral high ground while driving a badge engineered car, and Porsche can do what it is supposed to do, build great sports cars.
when the 718 gets WORSE gas mileage than the 981? My 2015 Cayman GTS is advertised to get 22/31 mpg (EPA) and that's about what I get. A 981 S is about the same (depending on transmission of course). The 718 S is advertised to get 22/29 mpg EPA with PDK. The results are similar for the base model, so if the gas mileage is about 1 mpg WORSE, why build the 4 cylinder turbo?
Why a 4 cylinder turbo . . . ? Lower emissions.
maybe - perhaps - hopefully, someone at Porsche has a new idea.

20 years is nothing compared to the 50+ year old 911, but in almost any other OEM, the cycle would be MUCH shorter.

Would we all be squawking if Porsche had kept the Boxter more or less as is and put out a new 4 cylinder under a different name - and which at first glance looked different to the general public?
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JMstamford,ct

Would we all be squawking if Porsche had kept the Boxter more or less as is and put out a new 4 cylinder under a different name - and which at first glance looked different to the general public?

Actually, a couple of years ago, there were rumours and even pictures of a concept of a decontented, lighter car than the Boxster. It was based on the VW BlueSport [www.digitaltrends.com] with possibly a 4 cylinder Audi engine. Then Porsche decided to cancel that project with the idea that a used Porsche would be an entry level Porsche.
Just wait, it looks like an all electric Boxster is in the works.

[www.thedrive.com]
We live in blessed times if you are a fan of internal combustion, either with or without forced induction. With Britain, France, and many other countries and and major carmakers vowing to ban or shift completely to zero-emissions cars by 2040 or before, it won't be long before we'll need to explain to our grand kids what a 'gas tank' was, while paying extra for insurance if I want to 'self drive' my risky, non-autonomous 986. I say enjoy what we have now, lest our debates about the tone of 981 exhaust be drowned by the defending silence of full EV.

'Drive it like to you stole it'

- JohnL, Boston
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jlegelis
We live in blessed times if you are a fan of internal combustion, either with or without forced induction. With Britain, France, and many other countries and and major carmakers vowing to ban or shift completely to zero-emissions cars by 2040 or before, it won't be long before we'll need to explain to our grand kids what a 'gas tank' was, while paying extra for insurance if I want to 'self drive' my risky, non-autonomous 986. I say enjoy what we have now, lest our debates about the tone of 981 exhaust be drowned by the defending silence of full EV.

'Drive it like to you stole it'

- JohnL, Boston
I'm afraid you are right. Manufacturers have no choice but to go to less cylinders and turbo charging and electric cars to meet increasingly stricter emissions regulations. The internal combustion motor is on its way out as countries around the globe are setting target dates for elimination for sale.
The future is hydrogen powered cars. Zero emissions. Zero green house effect. Electric cars are a stop gap and are not that environmentally friendly because the electricity is primarily generated from coal fueled power plants and depleted batteries are an environmental issue.
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patrick

The future is hydrogen powered cars. Zero emissions. Zero green house effect. Electric cars are a stop gap and are not that environmentally friendly because the electricity is primarily generated from coal fueled power plants and depleted batteries are an environmental issue.

The typical electric car battery is good for 300k miles and even then could be recycled. Repair is often a two hour job replacing a few individual cells. No IMS <grin>. Even on a hybrid, the brakes pads are often a 100k item, the tires 80k. At 41k in a hybrid, I've had to change the windshield wipers. And oil. But only half as much oil per change as on a Boxster.

As more electricity is generated each year from renewable sources, the environmental effect of plug-in hybrid or EV cars will only get better.

3 hybrids now in the family. Looking for an EV that is affordable as a second car and provides the utility of a small wagon.
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