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Last month, I reported a surging issue at low speeds and low rpms, and some grinding noise my local indy heard when he was replacing the AOS. I was going to have him address these issues when he got back from vacation. But the surging seems to have lessened and I have been busy so I havent followed up. Last week I called my indy and left a message and again this week and no call back. The noise seems to be getting worse now, so I will be taking it to another shop. The noise I hear almost sounds like a loose chains or like when your valves need adjusting, and increase or decrease with the rpm speed of the engine. Anyone had that type of issue?

BarryL '02 2.7 Seal Grey Tip 207K Santa Cruz, CA
Quote
BarryL
Last month, I reported a surging issue at low speeds and low rpms, and some grinding noise my local indy heard when he was replacing the AOS. I was going to have him address these issues when he got back from vacation. But the surging seems to have lessened and I have been busy so I havent followed up. Last week I called my indy and left a message and again this week and no call back. The noise seems to be getting worse now, so I will be taking it to another shop. The noise I hear almost sounds like a loose chains or like when your valves need adjusting, and increase or decrease with the rpm speed of the engine. Anyone had that type of issue?

Might want to consider avoiding running the engine any and arrange to get the car ot the other shop via flat bed tow truck.

There have been a few reports of somewhat similar noises from engines from other owners but I don't recall the specifics.

Even with an audio clip hard to make any kind of a diagnosis. (And I am *not* in anyway seeking to have you provide an audio clip. As I mentioned above my advice would be to avoid running the engine.) The noise could be from something wrong with the accessory drive, a failing idler/tensioner roller bearing, a bad belt, or a bad water pump.

Get the car flalt bedded to a reputable shop with a qualified tech and let him make the diagnosis.
I'm not suggesting you run it either, but the biggest question is "from where"?

I agree that it is very possibly from the accessory drive. The good news is that a) none of that is catastrophic if it fails and b) none of that is all that expensive (yes, hundreds, but still.....). But that would not sound like valves tapping which you also say, so its pretty confusing.

I hope its minor, Mine makes all sorts of funny noises when cold at low rpm.

Grant

Grant gee-lenahan-at-vee-eff-email-dot-net
I think my local indy is no longer in business...several calls/messages were not returned. I ended up taking the car to Flintworks in Campbell. So are, really great service and communication. They checked out the car today and reported the following:

1. the grinding noise was the belt tensioner, which was loose and barely hanging on, so I am fortunate it held together long enough for me to get it in the shop,

2. the shuttering/hesitation on acceleration was diagnosed as the transmission torque converter. They are going to change the trans oil to see if that corrects the problem, and if not, we will be looking at transmission repair/replace options.

3. leaking valve gaskets... optional, can wait fix they said,

They said they would have it ready tomorrow, so fingers crossed that the transmission responds to having fresh oil. They will also be going through a full inspection and let me know the status.

BarryL '02 2.7 Seal Grey Tip 207K Santa Cruz, CA
The car was done as promised. Got a call from Gilbert from Flintworks who explained what they had done. The belt tensioner was shot, and they replaced it. No more grinding noise! Then, Gilbert showed me pictures of the transmission pan and magnets covered with metal shavings. He indicated that changing the transmission oil had fixed the shuttering problem for now. Gilbert indicated that it is hard to say if this is a permanent fix, but for now, all is working well and no more shuttering! The inspection they performed identified a couple fixes that Gilbert indicated were not immediately necessary, but something I should think about. Leaking valve covers (an expensive fix), a water gasket that was needed to stop a slow water leak, and worn rear tires. I like the fact that they were very conservative about recommending additional services, and used prudent decision thinking about the customer and not adding work. I drove away headed back to Santa Cruz going over the Santa Cruz mountains. The car was running so good! Then, all of a sudden, coming down the Santa Cruz side of the mountain, all of the warning lights went on and the engine cut off. I coasted to a safe area, worried that the belt or pully had failed, and called Gilbert planning to flatbed the car back to the shop. Gilbert said no worries and said he would come to me... left the shop to meet me (30 minutes away) and see if he could find out what happened. When he got there, he started the engine and quickly ruled out the accessory belt as it was fine. The car quit one more time and Gilbert was able to immediately start it again took time to go over the engine., look underneath and provided his diagnosis... he thought it was electrical and asked me how old the battery was (five years). He thought the problem was either the battery,and alternator (replaced within the last year) or possibly the crankshaft sensor (affected by the wet roads). I decided to try to drive the car home so I could replace out the battery and I made it home without incident. I can't say enough about Gilbert and Flintworks, because I am afraid most shops would have asked me to have the car towed back to the shop. Flintworks is my new independent ....so impressed. Has anyone had a similar problem?

BarryL '02 2.7 Seal Grey Tip 207K Santa Cruz, CA
The car was done as promised. Got a call from Gilbert from Flintworks who explained what they had done. The belt tensioner was shot, and they replaced it. No more grinding noise! Then, Gilbert showed me pictures of the transmission pan and magnets covered with metal shavings. He indicated that changing the transmission oil had fixed the shuttering problem for now. Gilbert indicated that it is hard to say if this is a permanent fix, but for now, all is working well and no more shuttering! The inspection they performed identified a couple fixes that Gilbert indicated were not immediately necessary, but something I should think about. Leaking valve covers (an expensive fix), a water gasket that was needed to stop a slow water leak, and worn rear tires. I like the fact that they were very conservative about recommending additional services, and used prudent decision thinking about the customer and not adding work. I drove away headed back to Santa Cruz going over the Santa Cruz mountains. The car was running so good! Then, all of a sudden, coming down the Santa Cruz side of the mountain, all of the warning lights went on and the engine cut off. I coasted to a safe area, worried that the belt or pully had failed, and called Gilbert planning to flatbed the car back to the shop. Gilbert said no worries and said he would come to me... left the shop to meet me (30 minutes away) and see if he could find out what happened. When he got there, he started the engine and quickly ruled out the accessory belt as it was fine. The car quit one more time and Gilbert was able to immediately start it again took time to go over the engine., look underneath and provided his diagnosis... he thought it was electrical and asked me how old the battery was (five years). He thought the problem was either the battery,and alternator (replaced within the last year) or possibly the crankshaft sensor (affected by the wet roads). I decided to try to drive the car home so I could replace out the battery and I made it home without incident. I can't say enough about Gilbert and Flintworks, because I am afraid most shops would have asked me to have the car towed back to the shop. Flintworks is my new independent ....so impressed. Has anyone had a similar problem?
A few comments
grant - Saturday at 5:56:41 am
1. Glad to hear the grinding was the accessory belt tensioner and no more. The belt should be replaced every 50-60k or so, and at that time the tensioner and any rollers should be checked for bearing wear. Basically spin them- they should be silent and smooth. I doubt it was at last change. Or was it ever changed?

2. valve cover leak. Big money. Small problem. meh.

3. transmission. This is a ZF 5Hp19 or similar depending on the year of your car. (did you tell us?). These are known to be a bit fussy. In Audi applications Audi says "lifetime fluid". ZF begs to differ, and, I believe specifies a 50k (miles or KM i cant recall) service interval. Make sure OEM or identical/compatible fluid is used. Do not flush, simply drain, clean, replace filter and fill - oh and filling is a PITA involving running the car on the lift and getting to temp. I do it every 40k miles in my Audi S6. (5HP24a)

4. car died. Electrical sounds right for sudden, quiet, loss of power. But why? Its a big coincidence. If I were Gilbert I'd look at where I'd been recently first. One culprit that can be tricky to diagnose is the Crank position sensor. I wonder if its wiring on an auto is anywhere near where they mess around filling and removing the pan?

Grant

Grant gee-lenahan-at-vee-eff-email-dot-net
Re: A few comments
BarryL - Saturday at 3:22:33 pm
Hi Grant,
Thanks so much for your comments. The belt had been replaced when the alternator was replaced last year. I am hesitant to put money into the valve cover leak now. Pointed thoughts on the wiring...hmmm..sure hope it was the battery as loosing power and engine shutoff or worry that it could happen at any time is not a comfortable position. Thanks again, Grant!

BarryL '02 2.7 Seal Grey Tip 207K Santa Cruz, CA
Re: A few comments
MarcW - Monday at 8:53:03 am
Quote
BarryL
Hi Grant,
Thanks so much for your comments. The belt had been replaced when the alternator was replaced last year. I am hesitant to put money into the valve cover leak now. Pointed thoughts on the wiring...hmmm..sure hope it was the battery as loosing power and engine shutoff or worry that it could happen at any time is not a comfortable position. Thanks again, Grant!

Some time ago the tech spotted signs of oil leaking around the camshaft covers of my 2002 2.7l Boxsster. From where exactly wasn't clear and there wasn't much oil. He cleaned the oil off using I think Simple Green and said we'd keep an eye on it.

Later the car was in and the tech id'd the source of the oil leak not from the camshaft covers but from the spark plug tubes. With my permission he replaced the spark plug tube o-rings. They were shot he said. They were in pieces when he removed them. After new o-rings the engine is oil dry once more.

Might mention one camshaft cover has never been removed in all these years and now 315K+ miles. The other side was removed -- by this tech -- to replace the VarioCam solenoid and actuator.
Re: A few comments
BarryL - Yesterday at 10:54:10 pm
Hi Mark,
Wow. this might just be the problem! I did have a sparkplug tube leak that was not fixed during my last sparkplug change about 2 years ago. At that time, the leak was not that bad but this may be the issue in this case. Thanks!
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