Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Re: PDK shifting is impressive

Tire Rack: Revolutionizing tire buying since 1979.
Buying through this link, gets PB a donation.

Products for your Boxster, Cayman and Carrera.
PDK or Manual
kentv1 - 5 months ago
I'm being told that a manual is more fun and has better resale value. I'm considering a 718 Boxster or cab 911. I was leaning toward fully manual, as well, but after driving the PDK I did get some sense of a "manual" shift, and some people these days just aren't good at a fully manual shift vehicle. In addition, 95% of the new cars out there are PDK. So, I'm wondering which really would have greater resale value and which I'd enjoy more. I'm leaning toward full manual shift at this point. I'm not intimidated by the stop and go traffic argument against a manual. I can deal with that. But is the PDK really that much fun? Better? What are your thoughts?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2018 11:37AM by kentv1. (view changes)
The era of those of us who grew up driving a stick shift car and valuing the experience is passing. As is the era of gas powered cars, 6 cylinder Boxsters and even driving for pleasure.

So think of how long you will drive this car and how much its value when you sell it means to you. Depreciation (the difference between initial cost and eventual selling price) was 90% of the cost to me of owning a Boxster. Fortunately, it didn't matter to me but it could to you. We are all different.
Re: PDK or Manual
MarcW - 5 months ago
Quote
kentv1
I'm being told that a manual is more fun and has better resale value. I'm considering a 718 Boxster or cab 911. I was leaning toward fully manual, as well, but after driving the PDK I did get some sense of a "manual" shift, and some people these days just aren't good at a fully manual shift vehicle. In addition, 95% of the new cars out there are PDK. So, I'm wondering which really would have greater resale value and which I'd enjoy more. I'm leaning toward full manual shift at this point. I'm not intimidated by the stop and go traffic argument against a manual. I can deal with that. But is the PDK really that much fun? Better? What are your thoughts?

If 95% of the new cars are PDK that suggests when it comes time to sell you will have a larger market into which to sell. What attracts new car buyer to the PDK will also attract used car buyers.

Have to tell you as a life long manual transmission fan -- with just one exception when back in the mid 1970's I ended up with a used Dodge D200 pickup with an automatic this vehicle serving a dual role as personal vehicle and work vehicle -- I decided to switch gears, so to speak, and I bought my first car equipped with an automatic transmission. This back in Dec. of last year. Didn't buy a Porsche though. Instead I bought a Dodge Challenger R/T Scat Pack. With 485hp I felt an automatic would be the better transmission to get the most from the engine. (I had just gotten rid of my 2003 996 Turbo with a 6-speed manual and one of its negatives was its manual transmission. It had the effect of muting somewhat the engine's 420hp due to the issue of launching the car from a stop and the slow shift speeds running up through the gears.)

I felt the 8-speed automatic paired with the 485hp V8 would be a good combination. The time I owned the Scat Pack this proved to be the case.

Long story short after just 2 months I traded in the Scat Pack for a Hellcat.

As with the Scat Pack so too with the Hellcat, that is I stayed with the theme and got one with the 8 speed automatic. For the Hellcat an automatic is even a better choice. This engine is so powerful (707hp, 651 lb ft of torque, 411+ at 1200 RPMs (the Turbo managed just 413 ft lbs at its max torque peak)) really the only way to keep up with things as the engine gains RPMs (and it gains RPMs even faster than the Turbo and the Turbo engine was no slouch in this department) under hard acceleration is to let the automatic handle the shifts. The automatic shifts in around 150 milliseconds and as a result the acceleration is relentless. There is only the slightest pause as the transmission shifts to the next higher gear but this pause is ended by one's back being slammed back against the seat back as the brutal acceleration resumes.

Yet the car is a pussy cat in traffic, around town -- to the point I prefer to drive it vs. the town/commuter car I bought: a Mini JCW with a 6-speed manual -- but once out of traffic, out of town, and with other conditions permitting, it can be a monster. (And it is: That Hellcat name fits...)

The 8-speed transmission has a manual shift mode which lets me use the lever to shift up or down or I can use the paddles mounted on the steering wheel. Even in manual mode the transmission downshifts, err automatically, so when coming up to a stop I can let the transmission handle this if I want to. 'course, at other times I can use the paddle to downshift and the transmission goes down but there is no risk of it going down too many gears and making a "money shift". It is just pull back on the downshift paddle a couple of times in rapid succession concurrent with slamming the gas pedal to the carpet and then hang on for dear life as the car gains speed like there is no tomorrow and the scenery becomes a blur.

But as I mentioned above, with the transmission in auto shift mode the car is a pussy cat when driving around town or in commuter traffic. Even in these driving conditions I sometimes use manual mode which while I don't have to worry about working the clutch and the shift lever in unison I find I still need to be aware of having to decide when to shift. This is really where the engagement with the car comes from with a manual transmission. The clutch/shift lever becomes automatic (so to speak) after a while, after a short while, and one does this action over and over again with no thought. Really it has to be automatic. When to shift though, that requires considering various things and that doesn't change just because one uses a paddle to shift rather than a shift lever of a manual transmission. Thus I find even with the an automatic in the car when in manual mode I get my fix of manually shifting the transmission when using the paddles. Really this gives me the best of both worlds.

That the Hellcat equipped with the 8-speed automatic is loads faster than the same car equipped with a manual is icing on the cake.

After having driven the Hellcat nearly 10K miles really, the only reason to have a manual transmission in this car is to slow the car down some. With the automatic with it shifting things happen so fast -- mainly the car's speed increases so quickly -- one needs pretty much all his attention on just driving the car. A manual would result in a much more leisurely experience and one could sit back and enjoy the scenery as the car accelerates.

Bottom line is with an automatic one doesn't have to give up any enjoyment of a car and in fact the enjoyment level could possibly even go up.

Blah blah blah...

You say you are leaning towards a manual. I suspect then that's what you should get. But my usual recommendation in these cases of A or B is to always try to test drive examples of both. Use the paddle shift of the PDK and see if this form of "manual" shifting scratches that "itch".
It depends on why you're buying the car. If you're planning to keep it for a longer time, buy it equipped the way you would enjoy it most. I'd recommend taking both a manual and PDK equipped car for an extended test drive back to back. See which one gives you the biggest grin. For me, a manual has me much more engaged in the driving experience, which is a big reason to own one of these cars. However, your experience might be different.
The reason the market is mainly PDK is because that is what people want. I doubt the resale value of a manual will be higher than a PDK but you really should get what you will enjoy the most.
Re: PDK or Manual
db997S - 5 months ago
Buy what you prefer. The more scarce manuals become on sports car, I think the more the used car market in the future will crave them--smaller supply to satisfy the appetite (vinyl records are making a come back and turntables are pretty hot right now). So, the age old adage of supply and demand could work in your favor, if that's what worries you. Me, I tend to keep cars for long periods (current car was purchased new in Nov. 2009. Traded in a July 2002 to buy it). So, resale is not something that I think of, unlike when I buy a house. Resale is a huge factor in that purchase. So, with a car, buy what you think will bring you the most satisfaction. If you didn't care, you'd simply buy the most current econo box since cars are a necessity. A sports car is an emotional, frivolous purchase. Every time you slip behind the wheel, it should bring out some type of positive emotion, not regret. In that vein, if you buy one form of transmission, deep down inside, what do you feel your emotional reaction will be--joy or regret/should of? I purchased a PDK an have no regrets. Mine is a daily driver and I use manual mode about 95% of the time. Dropping down two gears to make a move is an option I make, if the situation warrants, same as if I was in a stick just less movement needed to initiate the action.
it seems to me that the most important part of this discussion is never brought up; what does "automatic" mean? tiptronic and a pdk are both automatic but they are far from being the same.

i abhorred automatic transmissions in the past but that was when all automatic transmissions were "slush boxes." The engine transferred power to the wheels via a liquid coupling. It was not a direct mechanical connection. the engine and wheels could rotate at different rates.

a manual transmission would allow a direct mechanical link from engine to wheels. when the engine turned, the wheels turned at a fixed ratio.

the former was comfortable, easy, and convenient but not sporty. The latter is more precise and controllable, but takes work.

it's not so much that i love manual gearboxes, it's that i can't stand slushboxes. if the only choice were the tiptronic slushbox of yesteryear and a six-speed gearbox with a clutch (as it was when i bought my boxster,) there's absolutely no question as too which one i would choose.

but now that we have PDK, i can get that direct connection between engine and wheels plus a system that shifts for me, better, faster, more comfortably than i can, at the press of a button. to me, that is the dream scenario; the best of both worlds.

MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige. Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010
Well, at least those I'm familiar with -- the Hellcat -- while there is a torque converter the transmission is anything but slushy.

The torque converter means that getting the car underway means no slipping of any discs which eliminates any concern about either dry or wet clutch wear, no linkage issues.

Once up to some speed there is a clutch system that locks the torque converter so the crankshaft and transmission input shaft are directly connected.

Besides improving fuel economy this means the transmission fluid doesn't get as hot. (The car has a transmission fluid "gauge", a digital gauge that I can call up on the center gauge display or on the center console LCD.) A lower temperature transmission fluid means extended transmission service life.

At other places inside the automatic multi-plate wet clutch packs are used to deselect/select various planetary gear sets to produce the 8 forward speeds and reverse. Perhaps these slip a bit to ease from one gear to another -- since the torque converter is locked -- but the time spent slipping is minimal. Also, in manual shift mode there is some automatic throttle manipulation taking place so a downshift at higher RPMs doesn't have the car lurching and causing one to be thrown against the seat/shoulder belt.

For smaller cars a manual I think is preferred. I would not have enjoyed my Boxster nearly as much with an automatic as I did with that lovely 5-speed transmission. This is why when I bought my JCW I bought one with a 6-speed manual. However, had I bought a Cayman I would have been hard pressed which type of transmission to get. But a desire to experience the PDK would have pulled me towards getting one with the PDK. Frankly, I had had years of experiencing both my Boxster and Turbo with their manual transmissions and was ready for a new experience.
hah, all the gadgets on the manual transmission are hilarious. locking out the "wrong" gears, gear change assist, rev matching. talk about nannying. porsche thinks you're a moron.
the guy who did the video had an odd choice of t-shirt too.

MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige. Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010
Yeah, but you're "at one with the car" and "involved in driving" the car with the manuals, NOT. Did not know all those "assists" were part of the "manual" gear boxes. NASCAR changed their "manual" gear boxes where drivers don't have to use the clutch pedal any longer. Just work the floor-mounted shifter. They do have a few road tracks on the schedule, too, so it does come into play.
It all depends on the options on the car. I haven't experienced being locked out of any gear with my 981 S. There might be a lock out to prevent someone from over-revving on down shifts. I haven't tried it and don't intend to.

Gear change assist is only a little arrow suggesting when to upshift for fuel economy. It's pretty easy to block it out mentally. That indicator would have you driving around between 1000 and 1500 RPM most of the time.

Rev matching only comes with Sport Chrono Which is why I didn't order that option. I do believe there is also a gear change assist for performance driving that is part of the SC package.
Re: PDK or Manual
kmmalek - 5 months ago
For whatever it's worth, one person's perspective:
I have an RS60 with manual transmission, as well as a Cayman GTS with PDK. I had to "settle" for the latter, as I could not find any manual transmission GTS's without the X-73 option, when I finally decided to buy one (after the 718 was introduced.)
I've always been a manual transmission fan, and generally hated automatics. However, I must confess that I now enjoy driving the PDK car immensely, to the point where I may very well order my next car with PDK, if both options are available. I don't feel any sense of loss of control or connection. I do enjoy shifting manually when I drive the RS60, but I no longer feel a manual is the absolute necessity I used to think it was.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login