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Re: The biggest problem with summer tires in winter


Expect the best, and accept no substitute.

Products for your Boxster, Cayman and Carrera.
No hibernating here!



Thanks for posting. ...ahhh. Wish we were so lucky up here to still have nice balmy Fall weather.

Here's what it's looked like for the past few weeks. 14 F today. Kind of chilly to put the top down. Slush chunks (nice combo of snow, ice, salt and gravel) on the snow covered grass are what I shovelled out of the garage after pulling my wife's car out this morning.



It's going to be a while before we're lucky enough to be able to see nice black roads like you've got. Enjoy and keep posting those pictures. It gives us northerners hope. smiling smiley
Hey Guenter, sorry to see all that snow up there, but it does look pretty! I’m resolved to still driving the car whenever the weather allows. - Rich
Hey Rich, It's just part of living in the great white north. This is only beginning - and Winter doesn't even officially start until tomorrow. I guess Mother Nature is just trying to prep us for it early. I always enjoy the pictures from the lucky ones down south who can drive them all year.

And I put about 10K miles on my favourite Boxster video to get at least a partial Symphony in Flat Six fix. Nothing beats the real thing of course.
[www.youtube.com]
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Guenter in Ontario
Hey Rich, It's just part of living in the great white north. This is only beginning - and Winter doesn't even officially start until tomorrow. I guess Mother Nature is just trying to prep us for it early. I always enjoy the pictures from the lucky ones down south who can drive them all year.

And I put about 10K miles on my favourite Boxster video to get at least a partial Symphony in Flat Six fix. Nothing beats the real thing of course.
[www.youtube.com]

Ouch. That sounds like a long winter ahead, but I’m sure there’s lots of other great things you can enjoy up there. Great video btw. Would love to drive those roads!
[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2019 04:30PM by Gary in SoFL. (view changes)

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
The Boxster S review by these guys was positively brutal.

On the other hand, the spider version in GT silver looked and sounded amazing. I'm not sure what you'd have to do to get an allocation for one of those, but even though it'll probably be North 100K us, I think it would be worth it.
Welll north of $100K for either GT4 or Spyder, and hopefully worth it smileys with beer

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
Wow, they really hate the 718 4 banger. A little harsh, but I don’t blame them. Should be a flat 6.

Current: 07 Carrera S Cab - Midnight Blue/Sand Beige Previous: 01 Boxster - (formerly boxtaboy), 86 944, Instagram: @Carreralicious
• I would never slam shut either hood. Bring it down until it the hook touches the clamping mechanism, then, for the front, push between* the logo and the leading edge to fully close. At back, touch down first, then push between the type and the trailing edge to completely shut.

• For supposedly having 1800 miles on the car, they get the Auto Stop-Start operation backwards. (Unless that's been changed from the 981.) They must've come to full stops in those 1800 miles and figured that out.

• The hairdresser thing is a pretty ignorant/obsolete notion. Besides, for the longest time, how did one buy a road-legal mid-engined Porsche if it wasn't a Boxster?

• The watch-to-PDK issue may be valid, but I think he was showing off his Rolex. While driving, he's wearing a different watch. (Less interference.)

• My opinion of the sound is Porsche did a great job of making it sound pretty good. Also, my first impression of an early Boxster going by in my neighborhood is that it sounded like a giant sewing machine, and imagined all the complex bits whirring and tapping as they did their job inside the engine.

* Less chance of eventually deforming the sheet metal around the logo.
For a morning drive, but not a problem! And I’m on summer tires! Ok, I know I’m gonna hear it from some folks for that comment. Lol


Just out of curiosity, which tires did you have on it and how scary was it?winking smiley
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MikenOH
Just out of curiosity, which tires did you have on it and how scary was it?winking smiley

I have the N1 rated Bridgestone Potenzas on the car. It was not scary at all believe it or not. You just have to take it easy until they warm up and I usually move the steering wheel left and right a little when the tires are cold (sorta like the F1 guys do to warm up their tires but much less aggressively). Not sure if this works or not, but it’s worked for me so far.
Oh, and curiously, I had Sumitomo HRT Z tires (non N rated) on my previous 01 Boxster, and those did break loose under acceleration in the cold. With these Bridgestones, I’m not sure if it’s because they’re N rated or not, or if it’s just the brand, but they don’t break loose if I give it abrupt gas in the cold even though the 911 has more than 100hp more than the Boxster. Strange.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 05:56AM by CarreraLicious. (view changes)
My 01 base Boxster had Michelin Mxx3 tires. In April 2002, while driving through southern Wyoming, I hit a good-sized snow storm. The car felt a little loose in mostly loose, fresh snow and slush. I drove at about 40 in the right lane of I-80 with my blinkers on, and somehow made it out of the mountains without breaking loose. The snow had stopped by the time I got to I-15 in Utah, and actually drove back into the mountains and stayed at the nice hotel in Bryce Canyon.

My 13 Boxster S with PASM and Torque Vectoring was OE'd with Goodyears, which could tolerate cold surfaces pretty well, but I do switch to Michelin PA4s once the temperatures are consistently at or below 45. I believe the PA4s are very close to being true 4-season tires. However, the latest summer tires are Pirelli PZ4. I got them based on their wet performance, but at most any moderate temperature, like around 60(!), they exhibit that full-lock slow speed skipping, and under hard acceleration exhibit severe axle tramp. Very surprising to have tramping on a rear weight-biased vehicle.* I will likely go back to the Goodyears with the next 4-tire changeout. I wouldn't dare drive the Pirellis in snow, and the Pirelli warning about near-freezing tread cracking is literally alarming.

* Insofar as to why the Boxster breaks loose, but not a more powerful 911, consider that one great advantage 911s have had in racing is the ability to put power down coming out of a turn because of the increased weight (pressure/force/vector?) on the rear tires. However, I believe the latest RSRs have become mid-engined in order to take advantage of bigger, more effective rear diffusers.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2019 08:38AM by Laz. (view changes)
I never thought of the weight distribution possibility. Good point. Prob a combination of the tire choice and extra weight in the back.
I've got to expand my vocabulary: I'm cringing because of how many times I used "loose" in my post! smiling smiley
I've had a number of driving episodes in very cold weather a couple different brands of max perf.tires on a 987 and our current 981. I drove back from vir to Ohio on a set of Goodyear asymmetric F1 tires, with temperatures around freezing and they weren't bad. Did the same thing with a set of Pirelli P Zeros, the original 981 Tire, and they felt very different-- very numb with a definite sense of limited traction. On the track with temps around 50, there wasn't much traction and I did a lot of sliding around the track.
Last, I drove on a set of Continental Extreme Performance sport tires in near-freezing temperatures to a dealer 70 miles away on an interstate and they felt very controllable. Made another drive with them with temperatures in the upper 40s and a steady pouring rain and the traction was remarkably stable.
I guess the moral is that traction at low temperatures in with a maximum Performance Tire can vary considerably depending on the brand.
I think you’re right, and there’s multiple factors involved, but in general, I don’t think it’s true that you simply can’t drive with summer tires in cold weather. You just have to drive sensibly. Christmas Eve pic for you all. Hope everyone gets all they wish for. I wish Porsche never stops making manuals!...





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/24/2019 06:54AM by CarreraLicious.
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They were very problematic in the cold. Scary? Not really, but one needed to be very conscious of the lack of grip.

I had the car break loose a couple times, but it was recoverable and fairly easily at that.

I was happy to be rid of them. Since then I drove a couple sets of Michelin Pilot A/S. I used them on the Porsche and several other cars - Saab's mostly. I was very content with them.

I more recently switched to Continentals. I am very pleased with them all year 'round.

[www.tirerack.com]

Of course YMMV.
I suspect that Pirelli is not the only summer tire with issues in the cold weather.

I would be curious about it. I bet that all seasons in the summer are almost as good as summer tires, but they are markedly better in the cold.
I would similarly comparing all seasons to true snow tires.
I just put my Pirelli winter tires on, since it got up to 62F today.
is emergency stopping.
I used to drive my Boxster with summer tires on clear winter days until I read a post from somebody who did the same. He was on the interstate and when the traffic suddenly stopped but he couldn't and crashed. Ever since reading that probably 15 years ago I've always changed to winter tires when the temp drops below about 40. You can be careful about acceleration and cornering but emergency braking is another issue.
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tom coughlin
is emergency stopping.
I used to drive my Boxster with summer tires on clear winter days until I read a post from somebody who did the same. He was on the interstate and when the traffic suddenly stopped but he couldn't and crashed. Ever since reading that probably 15 years ago I've always changed to winter tires when the temp drops below about 40. You can be careful about acceleration and cornering but emergency braking is another issue.

True, but hopefully tire technology has improved a bit in 15 yrs and while you can’t predict a sudden emergency brake situation, you can at least keep a good distance between cars when it’s cold outside.
the day after Thanksgiving when the temps had dropped overnight and the road had frozen. I thought I was OK as it was above freezing and no precip. I went out to get an estimate on getting a pit on my windshield repaired. My attention was distracted by a Boxster parked on the side of the road and I looked up and couldn't stop in time. Slid into a pickup. He had no damage. It is amazing what looks like minor damage in a Porsche can cost when a good body shop gets into estimating. Mine was $26k as I recall. Any other car and maybe $4k.

After that I was very careful to watch the temperatures on my '01S. Not enough to buy snows or A/S but on cold days I'd just use the SUV which had em.
What brand of tires did you have on it? grinning smiley
Pirelli, the ones with different fronts and rear tread patterns. Asymetricos I think they were called. But they was a formulation from at least 15 years ago.
This. Exactly.
years ago when i had my boxster, there was a gorgeous early december day. dry roads, blue sky sunshine. temp was 10°C (so about 50°F?). Driving along, slowly, about 50KPH (30MPH) and some dickhead comes flying out of a gas station right in front of me. i had to slam on the brakes. The braking performance was abysmal, the ABS engaged and i kept going and going and going. It wasn't a close call by any means as i saw the jerk in time but man, my braking distance was probably double.
that was on N spec pilot sports with good tread. and no, summer rubber is summer rubber, it isn't better in the cold today.
so next time you guys take out your cars in cold temps, find a safe place and slam on your brakes and see what happens.
so now you have three examples of poor performance of summer tires in cold temps. you're just tempting fate by driving on summer tires in those temps. hopefully you won't need to brake hard.

MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige. Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010
I understand the concerns and problems associated with using summer tires in the winter. What are the problems with using winter tires in the summer?
Wear. Noise.
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mikefocke, '01S Sanford, NC
Wear. Noise.

And I would add handling because the rubber is a softer compound.
and the consequences, are likely a lot less than summer tires and the consequences of their use in cold conditions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2020 04:51PM by Laz. (view changes)
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Sayle
I understand the concerns and problems associated with using summer tires in the winter. What are the problems with using winter tires in the summer?

the biggest problem with driving winter tires in the summer is that the heat hardens the soft rubber and makes them perform more poorly in the cold.

MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige. Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010
Your concern was also mine during the December drive from cold NY to 85º Alabama and back up into a snowstorm. Granted it was essentially one stint* of severe heat cycling, but the car suffered no slippage once I hit snow in Maryland. (Fairly new Michelin PA4s.) There was no noticeable treadwear through the roughly 2000 mile round trip.
Relatively speaking, I'd rather have somewhat imprecise steering responses, etc, with N-rated winter tires in summer, than the sudden breakaway behavior of Max Performance summers in winter, N-spec or not. Perhaps there's threshold of heating cycles that would change this notion.
* One day a friend took it for a drive, but the oncoming cold front caused the Montgomery temperature to drop into the mid-50s; the following day the high 40s.
They could drive up the vertical side of a block of ice but when you go them on the dry road they were squirrely and awful.
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Boxsterra
They could drive up the vertical side of a block of ice

Wow! I'd love to get a video of that. grinning smiley
Somewhere
Boxsterra - 3 weeks ago
there's a video of me pulling a 4wd truck out of a snow bank
Boxster Sunrise! (sailors take warning) smiling smiley

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