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Return of the flat 6...part deux

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Well I guess some of the sales numbers, or lack thereof, resulted in a change.
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Paralizer 06 Boxster S Atlas Grey/Black/Black
smiling smiley smiling smiley smiling smiley *NM*
SMILIN - 1 week ago
But until they put the 4 cylinder out to pasture on the Boxster, and get rid of the 718 moniker few will be happy.

If they wanted a 4 cylinder, they should have made a clean sheet 718 instead of trying to degrade the Boxster.

The concept of selling "more power" is fine to a point. But if you are degrading the experience, what is the point of power?
These cars were always more of an aesthetic statement. I always said it was like comparing a cavalry sabre to a two handed axe. They were never about pure power. They were about the full experience.

For my part, I do not desire a car that sounds like a whoopie cushion. I don't want one that is like a golf cart either.

The Boxster hit all the right buttons. The 718 thing just doesn't.
Well said!
MikenOH - 1 week ago
Now if they can just do the right thing and put a flat 6 in the base and S models, all will be right with this platform.
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MikenOH
Now if they can just do the right thing and put a flat 6 in the base and S models, all will be right with this platform.
Sadly I don’t anticipate that mainly because of the new EU emissions regulations.

Paralizer 06 Boxster S Atlas Grey/Black/Black
Quote
MikenOH
Now if they can just do the right thing and put a flat 6 in the base and S models, all will be right with this platform.

I totally agree - and get rid of the silly retro 718 moniker. That was used on a great car for its time. "Boxster" will always have a magical ring to the true enthusiasts.
Still one of the absolute best video ads for our favourite cars.
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They seem to be meeting the EURO specs by using a particle filter on the European cars, but sounds like won't be needed / included on the North American spec cars.
The rationale behind the turbo 4 was to get increased power with improved fuel consumption numbers. Sadly, the better fuel consumption was realized by running the car at unrealistic acceleration.
before the Boxster is electric-powered
won't get a charge out of that. sad smiley

Just the trip to BRBS alone will require an extra day for travel to give us enough time to "fill'er up" along the way..
There are chargers in Boone. I had last looked 3-4 years ago and there were none on the SC coast or in the NC mountains but now there are several.
This is a Porsche board.
JMstamford,ct - Friday at 3:39:40 pm
There are no curmudgeons - just moldy figs...cool smiley
Don't be so sure
Boxsterra - Saturday at 12:17:35 am
Today the Taycan takes 22 minutes to charge to 80%. In a few years it will be faster to charge an electric car than to the equivalent gas fill time.
Re: Don't be so sure
TheFarmer - Saturday at 5:37:03 am
I think so too. And then it will become hard to find a gas station. We've had one gas station around here convert completely to charging, but that was in the People's Republic of Tacoma Park.
Re: Don't be so sure
Guenter in Ontario - Saturday at 10:51:14 am
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Boxsterra
Today the Taycan takes 22 minutes to charge to 80%. In a few years it will be faster to charge an electric car than to the equivalent gas fill time.

And since you're not supposed to run the battery level below 20%, that leaves you a real driving range of 60%. According to EPA the Taycan has a 200 mi. range. So staying within the 20 and 80% marks, you'd have a 120 mi. range. You'd have to stop about every 2 hours for a 22 min recharge - provided there aren't 1 or 2 cars lined up in front of you tto get their 22 min charge first.

I think electric cars are great for around town or short commutes. You'd sure have to plan a long trip according to charging station locations and give yourself lots of extra time..
Re: Don't be so sure
Gary in SoFL - Saturday at 12:24:11 pm
It will not be to long before CAN taxes you into becoming a believer drinking smiley

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
... well, only if you have Porsche's 800 volt charging system.

Happy Charging,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla 1998 Boxster 986 - 293,000+ miles: http://www.PedrosGarage.com
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Quote
Pedro (Odessa, FL)
... well, only if you have Porsche's 800 volt charging system.

Happy Charging,
Pedro

True. I was talking to a Tesla owner at a charging station who said they had to charge there instead of home cause it took too long at his home. No thanks.

Current: 07 Carrera S Cab - Midnight Blue/Sand Beige Previous: 01 Boxster - (formerly boxtaboy), 86 944, Instagram: @Carreralicious
was a 120v type.

Really, if your typical use is charge overnight, drive 20-150 miles during the day and then back home and charge overnight an EV is a great car. And would smoke any Boxster. But is that isn't your use pattern, if you live in cold cold country, if it is your only car or if it has to live nights out on the street...then not for you. Or if your electricity feed can't handle 50 amps for a 240v charger...then maybe not.
Actually
Boxsterra - Saturday at 9:52:38 pm
Porsche claims 15 minutes to 80% using their fast charger and 30 minutes to 80% using almost any other charger.

This is still their first modern electric car. It will get much better.
Re: Actually
Guenter in Ontario - Sunday at 12:10:11 am
Quote
Boxsterra
Porsche claims 15 minutes to 80% using their fast charger and 30 minutes to 80% using almost any other charger.

This is still their first modern electric car. It will get much better.

According to the Porsche website, at ideal conditions (86 - 95 F) it takes 22.5 minutes to charge from 5% to 80% with Porsche high speed charging. However, it is recommended you use on a regular (240V) charger which takes 93 minutes for a 5% - 80% charge.
They haven't been consistent
Boxsterra - Sunday at 12:52:53 am
"Porsche claims that the Taycan can add 60 miles in 4 minutes and 80% range in 15 minutes (most chargers offer 80% range in double the time)"
Source
and as I said, electric car tech is moving very fast and will be several times better within a few years.
I beg to disagree.

When I owned both of my Boxsters, I relied on them to get me there in any kind of weather. I took the S through the edge of a hurricane when my other car choice was a Honda CRV with the best rain tires you could buy. The Boxster had take-offs that were 4 years old.

I relied on the gas infrastructure to never delay my trip, to never not be available within the next 15 minutes on the interstate, to be available within a half mile of the interstate (and if not I was fussing) and to provide me a simultaneous and co-located pit stop.. It isn't the car itself and its fuel but the infrastructure that has built up over the last 100 years to support them.

My town has at least 20 gas stations each with as many as 20 pumps compared to perhaps 4 public charging stations each with a single hook up that will take at least as long as the ICE worst case of a family of 6 gassing up and using the facilities. If one pump looks busy, there is another within a few feet, another station with multiple pumps within a mile. Not so with charging stations.

Yes, I can refuel an EV in my garage (after paying thousands in my case to provide a dedicated 50 amp 240 to the garage). But on those road trips I make darn near every two weeks...that doesn't help me get much beyond the first pit stop. And speaking of pit stops, it isn't every charging station that has a set of bathrooms within 50 feel like gas stations do. Not everyone can charge where they live overnight maybe because they don't live in a house that provides those facilities. And more and more kids are opting for high density living and fewer are wanting to own cars. (See this week's Economist)

The impact of winter fuel costs and range was less on my ICE cars than cold weather's impact on the EVs.

My electricity provider just asked for a 17+% rise in prices. About the equivalent of a 50 cent gas hike.

So I don't think those ICE expectations applied to an EV are unreasonable. It is just how many compromises you are willing to make for what end.

I want one.
All valid points, Mike
The daily commute to work and the general local run around time I would be covered. If one used the car solely to commute - an electric would be better than fine.

But as a practicing litigator, I am required to be all over the state. It is very common for me to travel from Stamford CT to Hartford CT multiple times per week. it is not uncommon for me to go - Stamford, New London, Hartford, Stamford in one day or Stamford to Hartford, to New Haven to Waterbury to Stamford in a day. Some of those trips are well over 200 miles. I know of no electric car that can make those trips.

I also travel semi regularly from CT to Maryland and Virginia and those trips are closer to 500 miles. I have friends in the mid-west who travel over an hour an a half in the car every day.

Depending upon what I am doing and the weather etc. I take either the Boxster or the 3-Series. I generally get at least 350 miles per tankful on long haul trips and I can refill in less than 10 minutes - including a "rest" stop.
electric cars need to increase their range to around 350 miles. They need to recharge from close to flat to 100% in less than 10 minutes. The cannot do that now.

Electric is fine. There are limitations and compromises, but as a city car, they work well. For a rural driver or a business driver, they do not work at all.

I wonder whether the winner of "what's next" might not be hydrogen or some other portable fuel that can use existing infrastructure.
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JMstamford,ct
I wonder whether the winner of "what's next" might not be hydrogen or some other portable fuel that can use existing infrastructure.

I have been extremely surprised that the future seems to be electric.
When I started analyzing what I though the future for automobiles would be I would have bet the farm that it would be hydrogen.
Hydrogen makes so much more sense than electric.
Hydrogen could be dispensed in modified gas stations, but the infrastructure would exist.
Car manufacturers could have mad a much easier transition in to hydrogen powered drivetrains.
But, the whole thing about self-driving and AI just makes it a computer-industry business.
Exactly what happened with photography. It's now all computer driven.
I won't give up on my hydrogen dreams, they still may happen one day.
And I would buy a Hydrogen Boxster, not an Electron one.
Happy Electrification,
Pedro



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2020 12:25PM by Pedro (Odessa, FL). (view changes)

Pedro Bonilla 1998 Boxster 986 - 293,000+ miles: http://www.PedrosGarage.com
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Electric reuses existing infrastructure smiling smiley
Boxsterra - Today at 11:42:46 am (12 hours ago)
There's nothing stopping anyone with an electrical outlet from selling electricity to electric car owners.

2019 Tesla Model S range is 373 miles. And it will get better.

You only have to fill to 100% quickly if you're driving twice (or more) the car's range in one sitting. If you need to go 400 miles and your car only goes 350 then you drive 300 miles, then charge 100 miles in 12 minutes (currently, again going to get much better soon) and get where you're going with plenty of buffer.

Let's also acknowledge that the vast majority of Porsche owners have more than one car. If you use the electric car for 90% of your driving and the other car for the drives where the electric car isn't good enough then you get the benefits of both.

Most if not all of these concerns will be resolved by the time the electric (gasp!) Boxster is released.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/24/2020 11:45AM by Boxsterra. (view changes)
All your points are great and will (likely) be coming in the future.

Those numbers are all under ideal conditions.

A lot of what I'm reading, EV manufacturers seem to recommend that the car normally should only be charged to 80% for optimal battery life. Bringing the above range down to 298 mi.

Some of us don't live in Florida or SoCal. So, come Winter, battery capacity drops and there's an extra toll on the battery for lights, heater, defroster etc. That's when it seems the car's range can drop to as low as 60% of ideal summer driving range. That drops the range to around 180 mi. (Aside from reading this in forums, I've personally heard this complaint from EV owners) So to avoid running the battery flat, I'd be starting to look for a charge station after about 120 mi. of driving on longer trips.
EV in various weather conditions
paulofto - Today at 12:04:55 pm (11 hours ago)
Up here in the Great Whit North we have an issue. Heat or lack thereof. Water cooled ICEs have always had plenty of waste heat to feed the passenger compartment. Electric vehicles rely on the same electricity that drives the wheels to also heat the interior. This severely compromises the range these vehicles get. Same applies to areas in the south that get +100F temps on a regular basis that tax the A/C systems. There is only so much electricity available. If the temperature stays at a moderate 75F I imagine theses vehicles can actually achieve their reported range. Outside that I doubt it.
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