Re: There are other failure modes just as likely

Let's assume my car -- MY2000, 2.7L, w/ 80K+miles -- is worth $10K ( Dubious at best, but...)

Let's also assume that any IMS fix will cost > than $2,500.00 parts and labor.

Let's further assume that a substitute engine could be found (one way or another) for $5-6K.

Why would one do the job unless "you were in there anyway" for say a clutch or leaking RMS or something?

Of course - while you were in there - applies both ways - but that is a chicken and egg argument IMHO.

Is there a risk? For sure there is, litigation documents it. Is my car with a likely double row IMS less of a risk? Yep.

But I am seriously concerned with the cost/benefit analysis being applied by some.

I am also curious as the how all of us have approached that analysis as educated greater than average p-philes.

How did each of you make the analysis? (I think Stefan has been fairly blunt about his views, but a formal statement of cost/benefit might be illustrative).

To be clear, when my clutch goes - or gets near to going - I will swap the bearing. What with? Ask me then.

Depends on how you drive your car--local only or lots of road trips. My 2002 S had the IMS go after 10,001 miles (Oct. 2003). I was on my way from DC to Chicago for a couple of Cubs playoff games (wife was flying back home from Calif from a business trip and meeting me there). I left after work. Going through OH in mid-October so it was just below freezing. Pull off the OH Turnpike in Cleveland at midnight. When paying the toll (old school way back then), heard a sound like coins being swirled around in a coffee can and the car was idling roughly. Got to the hotel and noticed a pool of fresh oil. Now, if this happened an hour earlier, I would have been in very rural OH, at 11:00 p.m., with no cell service, no engine and temps hovering around freezing. Was lucky, Porsche towed the car to the local dealer, gave me a rental to continue my trip, flew us back to from Chicago after the games and two weeks later transported my car with its new engine back to my local dealer--all free of charge under warranty. Needless to say, in 2009 when they designed the IMS out of the car, I traded in. For six years, that IMS was always in the back of my mind when we went on long trips. So, is $2,500 worth the peace of mind? I'd say most definitely but YMMV. So, ride that clutch!

I wouldn’t update the IMS unless I was in there anyway for a clutch job. As you know, I had my 01 986 for 17 yrs and never changed the IMS. The car went to a friend and now the clutch does need to be replaced (it was on its way out when I sold it to him), and I think he will change the IMS or do a direct oil feed when he changes the clutch out. I just think the cost/benefit is not worth it. If your engine dies, replacement used ones are out there for pretty cheap if you want to get it back on the road.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2021 01:07PM by CarreraLicious. (view changes)

Replacing IMS when you are replacing your clutch really won't matter for MY 2005.5 and up as you need to crack open the block to remove the IMS.

I guess I will drive and enjoy.

MIKELLIG

Yeah, but original poster said he has a 2000 model year.

Aren't cars with your IMS much more reliable? Porsche changed the design as the result of the earlier IMS failures.

Cost of not replacing: $0
Likelihood of failure: <1%
Cost of replacing bearing: $2.5k
Cost of replacing engine: $5k

Expected loss (paranoid): $2,500
Expected loss (drive and enjoy): 0.01 * 5,000 = $50

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You can dispute the exact numbers but the outcome remains the same.

Peace of mind: Priceless.

I am never sure that any machine is going to work flawlessly.

But I am never going to lose sleep over it anyway.

I have owned a number of cars over 40+ years. I have been stranded only twice in all of that time.

1) I was involved in an accident. Although the car was "drivable" it was making ugly noises - so I had it towed at 4AM off of the HWY.
2) A two week old car had a computer go kaput. My wife had to pick me up.

On one other occasion I had a oil light and pulled over in an excess of caution. Turned out to be a bad sender. I do not count that as "stranded" but ....

In each of those cases, the cars were either new or still within warranty. In each case, there was nothing I could have done to prevent the issue or to solve it on the side of the road.
Cars are machines. All machines will fail eventually.

The question is the cost benefit analysis.

Taken to an illogical conclusion - one could assure never to be stranded on the side of the road by never driving in the first place.
One can reduce the likelihood by spending money on the car for maintenance and improvements. No expenditure makes the car foolproof.

Plus - one could argue that by disturbing a functioning engine, one might introduce an problem that was not there before. There is a current FB post about a failed (double row) LN bearing, for instance.

That is long way of saying changing the bearing does not equal piece of mind on a 21 year old car.

yes, any car can strand you but having one with a known catastrophic issue is another thing. You wouldn't feel comfortable entering a Pinto in a demolition derby (mainly driven backwards to protect front ends & radiators).

I am not sure the Pinto comparison is a good one.

That is a life or death thing. It is a 100% certain problem in a demolition derby - to fail, not explode.

In contrast, the IMS is never life and death, it is just money. Plus the failure rate at any given mileage is a small percentage (in dispute, but less that 5%). So I submit it is a pure cost benefit analysis.

I respect the alternate view - and if it makes you sleep better at night, than it is money well spent I guess.

I am just not sure it gives peace of mind per se.

It is only through understanding of the probabilities that peace of mind is achieved

hey, i had that in a fortune cookie the other night

And no, I never read the motorcycle one.

So far (125K mi) I've had no problem from the IMS on my '05 987, but I think the real hit to resale value is that the volume knob on the radio/nav/map... system has almost given up the ghost. But I get by with a phone and bluetooth earpieces... I'm glad that I'm not planning on re-selling.

.....neither was very inconvenient. One happened a block away from home at 6K miles. The other about 10 miles from home at 62K miles.

So much for driving them like you stole them

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."

I have an '00 Base; I've worried about this very question. My mechanic's answer was basically 'if it hasn't broken by now (100K miles) it's not likely to break'. He gets the work to fix it now or in the future, so I don't think he has an economic motivation one way or the other.

Andrew

of people with > 100K miles on their car replacing their IMS out of fear and discovering that the IMS is in perfect condition.

"IF" the failure rate is "only 5%...(WHAT IS THE REAL RATE)
Of the 3 Boxsters I have owned that were pre 2009 I did not have an IMS failure, BUT...it was always there in the back of my mind ..
and dictated how I used the car.
The 09 and now the 13 give me no worries of catastrophic failure....but now with the 13 there is the door "card" issue...(not a huge problem
but somehow PORSCHE NEVER SEEMS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY)

The failure rate is higher than 5%. But there's a cure.
With the door cards it's really not Porsche's fault - [pedrosgarage.com] . But there's a cure.
I offer them both.
Happy Porsche'ing,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 314,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

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Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2021 06:09PM by Pedro (Odessa, FL). (view changes)

I had the LN IMS Retrofit Kit installed in August 2010 at 67297 miles after having acquired my '99 in January 2004 at 45947 miles. So far so good ... touch wood ... currently at 95246 miles. I was moving back to Canada in 2011 so I wanted this peace of mind modification done before the move as I was hoping to keep the car for as long as possible. The original bearing was OK when removed but no grease ... just dirty oil behind the seal. As it turned out, the clutch need replacing so that was done as well. I still think about the new bearing, just not as much as the original one! I keep an eye on things with a magnetic drain plug and annual filter inspections. Looking forward to celebrating my car's 22nd birthday on July 7th, 2021.

AND! you certainly know how to keep that baby polished! Lookin' good!

With 95K miles, that car looks great.
We also had a '99'--5/99 production--and the car ran like a clock for 6 years till we traded it.
IIRC, the 97-99 models had a different IMS bearing setup--two bearing? It changed with the 2001 model when they went to one bearing which ran till 2005.

Yes, original dual row ball bearing replaced with LN dual row retrofit bearing.
I had to take that photo because the late afternoon light was perfect and the car had just been cleaned. I've thought about repainting the front bumper cover but have so far resisted messing with the original paint. Thinking about ordering a Forest Green Metalic Dr. Colorchip kit.