Re: Electric is not the ultimate solution.

If you want a “traditional” Boxster/Cayman you better get it soon.
[www.whichcar.com.au]

Paralizer 06 Boxster S Atlas Grey/Black/Black

[en.wikipedia.org]

... still be making internal combustion engines for many years.
All of the GTs (GT2, GT3, GT4 ....) with its variants.
They will also be making synthetic fuel for all of their older machines on the roads.
This synthetic fuel, they claim, can be used by any ICE without modifications and will produce a smaller net footprint (miles vs miles) than an all electric vehicle.
We shall see.
Happy Porsche'ing,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 314,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

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Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Happy Thanksgiving to all

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

At present, making electric is too dirty. More pollutants than ICE.
The grid is not strong enough. just ask your utility if you can get 4 chargers at your house - or even on your block.
California is already experiencing rolling black/brown outs in heavy usage times.

Will synthetic fuel work? Too soon to tell, but I suspect the energy required to make it will exceed its energy output. But again, we will see.

... power should come from hydrogen cells.
It makes the most sense.
Hydrogen is in our atmosphere and water and is easy to extract.There are no by-products other than water.
Honda made a big push back in the early 90s but no other manufacturer followed.
Now several of the Korean brands already offer hydrogen powered vehicles.
Happy Porsche'ing,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 314,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

but the infrastructure is not the same. it is a bunch more dangerous to move around and store.

Someone might be better to explain, but is the energy potential the same by volume?
And how much does it cost to extract from air or water?

A neighbor of mine got a toyota hydrogen car off of lease. He got it for $15000 and was given a $15000 hydrogen gas card with it. a free car.

With solar and wind sources, electric is as clean as you can get. But things get pretty complex when you start asking where and how the batteries and solar panels are made, just like when you ask where and how hydrogen is made. At the DOE site, describing hydrogen production, they take the attitude that biomass production of hydrogen is not a source of CO2 emissions because the biomass took up the CO2 when it was growing. (And that is just one of many ways to produce hydrogen that they cover).

In the end, there is no "ultimate" solution. There are only better choices to be made when they can be made. And now electric and hydrogen are clear winners over gas and diesel.

I submit nothing is clear, at all.

Electric might work in densely populated areas, but will be problematic in areas that require long hauls even for ordinary folks.

And given that China, India, Pakistan and Brazil are all making the carbon issue larger without reference to the rest of the world, we can talk all day, but it is just talk unless the needs of those people are dealt with.

For people who live in houses, every day begins with a full electric car battery. The number of people who drive more than the range of an electric car on any given day is very low. Viable electric trucking vehicles are almost here.

In the US and many other countries, the cost of electric energy is lower than gasoline or hydrogen. Every country polluting the air will move to renewable as soon as countries who can demonstrate a clear financial advantage and cheap ways to build out clean energy infrastructure. Playing "chicken" on technology with less developed countries makes no sense.

Safe production, storage, and distribution of hydrogen is costly. And the efficiency is low. Doubtful this will ever be widespread given superior alternatives.

Porsche's synthetic fuel is interesting. Removing CO2 from the atmosphere to produce fuel makes it carbon neutral as long as production emissions are also neutral. But will require significant technological advances (e.g. cheap carbon capture) before it can be viable. That's not about to happen.

Technology for electric energy production, storage, and use is improving at a high rate. It is the future, whether or not people like it.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Well said!

It's hard to imagine an electric Abrams tank having a practical range, and a practical recharging time. It would be a tactical nightmare. At least with current battery technology.

1 from C&D
1 from MIT
1 from DoE

all agree.

All look at the cost and environmental impact at many stages across the life cycle - mining & manufacturing (vehicle, batteries); generation cost, conversion to work.

Its quite the significant break-even analysis. he up front impact is large. The running benefits, even if its, say, coal, are positive. But they have a large sunk impact to overcome.

G

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com