Re: There's still many more miles left on those pads. |  |  |
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| Parts for brake pad replacement? Nola Mike - Friday, 26 November, 2010, at 12:03:06 pm |
Just had a new kid, hadn't been around PPBB in a while--wow, looks like this has been quite a fiasco. Thanks Pedro for getting the new site running.
Anyway...
Just had the brake wear indicator light come on on my 2002 S. 55k miles, I haven't physically checked the pads yet, but I assume I'll need front pads. Do I need to replace the sensors as well? Any other additional parts?
Thanks!
Anyway...
Just had the brake wear indicator light come on on my 2002 S. 55k miles, I haven't physically checked the pads yet, but I assume I'll need front pads. Do I need to replace the sensors as well? Any other additional parts?
Thanks!
| Re: Parts for brake pad replacement? Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Friday, 26 November, 2010, at 1:21:41 pm |
Generally when the brake light comes on, one or both sensors in that axle will need to be replaced.
Many times even if the light doesn't come on the sensor breaks when you try to remove it from the pad because they become brittle from the heat.
You can physically look at the amount of pad left on each corner.
With some of the more open wheels you can actually look into the brakes without having to remove the wheel.
A trick I often use when doing PPIs is to stick my digital camera in the wheel and shoot a photo.
That way i can actually see the thickness of the pad without removing the wheel on some of the harder ones to see, like this:
[i83.photobucket.com]
[i83.photobucket.com]
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
Many times even if the light doesn't come on the sensor breaks when you try to remove it from the pad because they become brittle from the heat.
You can physically look at the amount of pad left on each corner.
With some of the more open wheels you can actually look into the brakes without having to remove the wheel.
A trick I often use when doing PPIs is to stick my digital camera in the wheel and shoot a photo.
That way i can actually see the thickness of the pad without removing the wheel on some of the harder ones to see, like this:
[i83.photobucket.com]
[i83.photobucket.com]
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Pads at least and wear sensors. IIRC the rest of the hardware should be renewed as well.. MarcW - Saturday, 27 November, 2010, at 2:24:36 am |
the pad spring, the pad spring retaining pin and the spring clip that secures the pin in the caliper.
If the calipers have to come off to be replaced again IIRC the caliper bolts should be replaced.
I've reused the bolts provided they come out easy and are not corroded anywhere. I reassemble with a bit of heavy duty grease.
Porsche sells -- used to anyhow -- a brake hardware kit that contained all the hardware that should be renewed during a brake job, including the 2 per wheel philips flat head screws that serve to hold the wheel hubs on when the wheel is removed. The only things that aren't included are the wear sensors, pads, and rotors. These are all separate.
Be sure you have the Bentley manual or at least one good Boxster brake DIY writeup.
To be honest at least once I've reused everything including the worn sensors. They didn't false alarm on me but I was prepared to if they did to expend the effort to do the job sort of twice and replace them with new ones.
One bit of something extra I like to do is to thoroughly rinse/wash the brake hardware with brake cleaner in an aerosol can. I can use one can per wheel. Spread out a big covering of many layers of newspaper to catch the fluid heavily discolored with brake dust and just plain road grime/dirt.
Use a fine bristle brass brush to clean the harder to remove stuff from the hardware. Do not scrub the rubber dust covers of the pistons. You can use a bit of steel wool to clean up the retaining pins so they reinstall with no effort. Surprisingly, my experience is with the brake cleaner quite a bit of the dirt and such is flushed away. I clean the pins and that's about it.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
If the calipers have to come off to be replaced again IIRC the caliper bolts should be replaced.
I've reused the bolts provided they come out easy and are not corroded anywhere. I reassemble with a bit of heavy duty grease.
Porsche sells -- used to anyhow -- a brake hardware kit that contained all the hardware that should be renewed during a brake job, including the 2 per wheel philips flat head screws that serve to hold the wheel hubs on when the wheel is removed. The only things that aren't included are the wear sensors, pads, and rotors. These are all separate.
Be sure you have the Bentley manual or at least one good Boxster brake DIY writeup.
To be honest at least once I've reused everything including the worn sensors. They didn't false alarm on me but I was prepared to if they did to expend the effort to do the job sort of twice and replace them with new ones.
One bit of something extra I like to do is to thoroughly rinse/wash the brake hardware with brake cleaner in an aerosol can. I can use one can per wheel. Spread out a big covering of many layers of newspaper to catch the fluid heavily discolored with brake dust and just plain road grime/dirt.
Use a fine bristle brass brush to clean the harder to remove stuff from the hardware. Do not scrub the rubber dust covers of the pistons. You can use a bit of steel wool to clean up the retaining pins so they reinstall with no effort. Surprisingly, my experience is with the brake cleaner quite a bit of the dirt and such is flushed away. I clean the pins and that's about it.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
| Re: Pads at least and wear sensors. IIRC the rest of the hardware should be renewed as well.. Nola Mike - Wednesday, 1 December, 2010, at 8:16:40 am |
| A good dousing with brake cleaner will remove most of if not all of that grime and make the brake... MarcW - Wednesday, 1 December, 2010, at 8:35:45 am |
job a bit better because of it.
BTW, as an experiement I continued to drive my car for a long time after the brake wear light came on. I found I could drive the car -- mainly not hold the car stationary at a stop unless necessary of course by using the brakes. If the car would remain stationary on its own I kept my foot off the brake and the light would stay off.
I don't recall how many miles I drove -- several thousand though I'm pretty sure -- before I got tired of the light staying on all the time. Upon disassembly I found 3 of 4 front sensors worn down to about half their new diameter. Since I knew the rotors were going to need replacement too I was not worried about a pad backing plate scoring a rotor. And I wanted to see what would happen as the wear progressed. But as I said above, I got tired of the light being always on towards the end.
If the brake wear light on and there are no other signs of brake distress pads, sensors, hardware, and maybe rotors is all that is called for a Boxster brake job is no big deal. I've done the brakes on my 02 Boxster more than a few times and the job is not a big deal at all.
But you always want to be on your toes. Keep your eyes open for any signs of possible trouble: Uneven (excessively so and in a standout-ish way) wear between the pad edges and between pads on a wheel and pads from wheel to wheel. Ditto rotor wear.
Check for any signs of brake line deterioration and while you can give the steering/suspension/drivetrain components a visual check as well.
Part of every car's maintenance or service should include inspecting the immediate and surrounding areas and components for any early signs of trouble.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
BTW, as an experiement I continued to drive my car for a long time after the brake wear light came on. I found I could drive the car -- mainly not hold the car stationary at a stop unless necessary of course by using the brakes. If the car would remain stationary on its own I kept my foot off the brake and the light would stay off.
I don't recall how many miles I drove -- several thousand though I'm pretty sure -- before I got tired of the light staying on all the time. Upon disassembly I found 3 of 4 front sensors worn down to about half their new diameter. Since I knew the rotors were going to need replacement too I was not worried about a pad backing plate scoring a rotor. And I wanted to see what would happen as the wear progressed. But as I said above, I got tired of the light being always on towards the end.
If the brake wear light on and there are no other signs of brake distress pads, sensors, hardware, and maybe rotors is all that is called for a Boxster brake job is no big deal. I've done the brakes on my 02 Boxster more than a few times and the job is not a big deal at all.
But you always want to be on your toes. Keep your eyes open for any signs of possible trouble: Uneven (excessively so and in a standout-ish way) wear between the pad edges and between pads on a wheel and pads from wheel to wheel. Ditto rotor wear.
Check for any signs of brake line deterioration and while you can give the steering/suspension/drivetrain components a visual check as well.
Part of every car's maintenance or service should include inspecting the immediate and surrounding areas and components for any early signs of trouble.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
| There's still many more miles left on those pads. *NM* Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Wednesday, 1 December, 2010, at 10:55:01 am |
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| Re: There's still many more miles left on those pads. Nola Mike - Wednesday, 1 December, 2010, at 11:09:47 am |
| Check all 4... Pedro (Odessa, FL) - Wednesday, 1 December, 2010, at 11:57:33 am |
... one of them might be more worn.
It just takes 1.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
It just takes 1.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro
Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar
"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"
"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti
"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna
| That is about when the sensor comes on Red_Lightnin! - Wednesday, 1 December, 2010, at 1:30:44 pm |
IIRC from when I had brake pad sensors, they come on very early in the wear cycle. You have about 1-2MM left in those pads before you should change them - a good rule of thumb is to change them when the pad is the same thickness as the backing plate - when the pads get thinner than that they still work but they transfer heat to the backing plate, boiling the brake fluid and causing brake fade.
Have you done any hard driving lately? The reason I got rid of my brake sensors is that every time I went to the track the sensors would melt due to the heat (even with new pads) and I had to keep replacing them. So I bought a final set, plugged them in, and tied them up with a zip tie away from the brakes, nice and safe. I now make a point of just checking my pads every time of change tires or adjust tire pressure, which is easy to do because of the calipers Porsche uses.
As for the hardware and what should / should not be replaced: you can re-use the Philips screw that hold the rotor to the hub - it is not load bearing since the load is in the lug nuts (which is why proper torque is SOOOOO important); I personally have never replaced the brake pad retaining pin and spring and don't know many who do this frequently - again, it is not really a part that undergoes stress, it is simply there to keep the pads from vibrating out (this being said, on my last visual inspection the spring looked pretty corroded, so I ordered two new kits from Suncoast for about $10 each); if you remove the brake calipers (which you do not need to do to change the pads) you MUST - REPEAT MUST - replace the caliper retaining bolts! The caliper retaining bolts bear very heavy load and are designed to be one use only - I would never want to re-use these, even though I am sure some people do, given the risk/cost trade-off.
Marc is right about changing the pads, and even the rotors - it is a very easy job. And his point about checking brake lines and suspension components while you are in there is very good too.
1998 986 Turbo-Look Cab
172,000 Miles
Dilithium Crystal Supercharger
Have you done any hard driving lately? The reason I got rid of my brake sensors is that every time I went to the track the sensors would melt due to the heat (even with new pads) and I had to keep replacing them. So I bought a final set, plugged them in, and tied them up with a zip tie away from the brakes, nice and safe. I now make a point of just checking my pads every time of change tires or adjust tire pressure, which is easy to do because of the calipers Porsche uses.
As for the hardware and what should / should not be replaced: you can re-use the Philips screw that hold the rotor to the hub - it is not load bearing since the load is in the lug nuts (which is why proper torque is SOOOOO important); I personally have never replaced the brake pad retaining pin and spring and don't know many who do this frequently - again, it is not really a part that undergoes stress, it is simply there to keep the pads from vibrating out (this being said, on my last visual inspection the spring looked pretty corroded, so I ordered two new kits from Suncoast for about $10 each); if you remove the brake calipers (which you do not need to do to change the pads) you MUST - REPEAT MUST - replace the caliper retaining bolts! The caliper retaining bolts bear very heavy load and are designed to be one use only - I would never want to re-use these, even though I am sure some people do, given the risk/cost trade-off.
Marc is right about changing the pads, and even the rotors - it is a very easy job. And his point about checking brake lines and suspension components while you are in there is very good too.
1998 986 Turbo-Look Cab
172,000 Miles
Dilithium Crystal Supercharger
| two reasons grant - Thursday, 2 December, 2010, at 2:05:51 pm |
First, the pads do wear at slightly different rates. one may be more worn. But i doubt that's it.
Second, the sensors are embedded in the pads. Far enough in to give you lots of safe time to repalce them. So porsche INTENDED there to be lots of life left. Its normal.
After my pad light went on at monticello i got nearly 1/2 track day in AND drove home. Had pads and stuff at the track, just in case.
Grant
Second, the sensors are embedded in the pads. Far enough in to give you lots of safe time to repalce them. So porsche INTENDED there to be lots of life left. Its normal.
After my pad light went on at monticello i got nearly 1/2 track day in AND drove home. Had pads and stuff at the track, just in case.
Grant
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