I'm only 1/10th the way there (MY 2009); Regarding the PDK

on Sunday evening driving out of San Francisco. Traffic was moving briskly, so thought it prudent to skip the odometer photo op.

This is really just a counterpoint to some of the sad repair stories that have been posted on the old Porsche Pete and other forums over the years. The car is a relatively heavily optioned '02 S w/tip, I'm the original owner and can report minimal issues with this car.

Aside from regular maintenance and tires/brakes, the only repairs needed were a couple of new window regulators, an AOS replacement, and a water pump. A GAHH premium acoustic top w/glass window (huge improvement) replaced the original top. I've had zero issues with the RMS, or any other fluid leaks for that matter.

This car has been as trouble free as anything I've owed,and much better than most. It's also been WAY more fun to drive.

Just my two cents

Tom

and I totally agree, these cars are a LOT of fun to drive.

Here's to another 100,000 trouble free miles.

... to the Club!
Glad to hear your positive story.
Happy Boxstering,
Pero

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

"Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love!"

nice!

Congratulations!

I too was happy when I made it over 100k miles. It kind of feels like a milestone!

I was commuting 45 miles a day, but have been taking the train for the past several months, so my climb to 100k has slowed dramatically. Congrats on your milestone!

And still pretty damn fast.

Two water pumps, one coolant tank, two AOSs, new top, one clutch, two radiator fans, and ROW M030 upgrade

Pretty damn reasonable, considering how well the car performs and that it has about 25 Autocrosses and 25 track days to boot.

1998 986 Turbo-Look Cab
172,000 Miles
Dilithium Crystal Supercharger

And that was in the driveway!

Due to my mileage approaching 100k I wonder if I should preemptively replace the AOS and the water pump. Obviously those who have replaced these parts post but I don't see posts that state the opposite.
Am I in a minority of those who are still original at this mileage ? I know many here think this is crazy but I asked my service writer about the AOS and he does not think this is a must do item, he even stated that regular service prolongs the life of the AOS, I know some think it's crazy but it's what I was told. Maybe he doesn't see this item due to the fact that many do this themselves.
I am actually considering this route myself since there are so many informative write ups and I'm sure I can save several hundred dollars which can pay for a new set of tires.

Quote
Joseph in NJ
Due to my mileage approaching 100k I wonder if I should preemptively replace the AOS and the water pump. Obviously those who have replaced these parts post but I don't see posts that state the opposite.
Am I in a minority of those who are still original at this mileage ? I know many here think this is crazy but I asked my service writer about the AOS and he does not think this is a must do item, he even stated that regular service prolongs the life of the AOS, I know some think it's crazy but it's what I was told. Maybe he doesn't see this item due to the fact that many do this themselves.
I am actually considering this route myself since there are so many informative write ups and I'm sure I can save several hundred dollars which can pay for a new set of tires.

(My car's first AOS failed at 80K miles, the second under 100K miles later but I don't remember the mileage.)

Would I advise you to replace your car's AOS? Or the water pump?

Depends.

If you're a driver who stays close to home and is in good cell phone coverage and has a good auto club membership and is aware of the symptoms of a failing AOS then you can drive the car until the AOS fails. When it does while this is a bit inconvenient it is not the end of the world.

But if your usage of the car sees you out and about sometimes away from civilization (aka away from a Porsche dealer) and on longish trips... nothing ruins a week's vacation having to spend several days dealing with a Boxster laid up due to an AOS.When this happened to me I was lucky to catch the nearest Porsche dealer in a slow time and it managed to get the car in the next day, early. But more recently when I called this dealer to see about getting my car (Turbo this time) in for something the service manager told me 'no way' the service department was booked up solid for 2 weeks.

Since my Boxster no longer gets taken out on the long road trips I have elected to let the 3rd AOS remain in service (now for over 70K miles) until there are clear signs it needs attention.

Ditto the water pump. The replacement water pump has almost 70K miles on it and if it performs like the original one it has another 100K miles to go before it needs replacing.

Basically the decision is up to you.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Just hit the 100k mark this morning, came home and read Marc's post that I've received a reasonable amount of service from the Original AOS. Guess it's time to order parts or schedule the work.

Had my share of (typical Boxster) parts failures, but otherwise it has been a dependable daily driver since 2004. A 2001 base purchased with 17,000 miles. Still solid (even with NJ roads) and runs strong.

That said, I had the opportunity to spend 2 days with a 2011 base with PDK. I've been thinking. Lots of thinking...

It is a great tranny. I know many turn their noses up to anything but a stick. That's fine. To each his/her own. I've had my PDK going on 18 months and am solidly in the yeeeeeeehawwwww category. The car shifts better and quicker than even the most accomplished/successful road racers in the world. Even in manual, the shifts are lightning fast and linear. floor the gas, never let up and either have the computer or your thumb make unbelievably fast and smooth shifts. If this type of shifting is fine for F1 and other racing leagues, that's gotta tell you something. The clutch pedal is going the way of the hand crank starter and Dotto Bird.

--db

Here is my observations regarding the PDK:

First, I expected to not like the buttons, and would opt to convert to paddles. I have been driving stick only my whole life, but believe manual trans only remained because it was the best performance choice available, and I am accepting of changes in life if they are better solutions. I also am aware of some peoples complaints that they feel "disconnected" using pdk.

This is what I found. I think I now understand why some feel disconnected with pdk. Although I discovered that I really do not like the buttons, the buttons are not at fault. The problem is that the transmission does such a great job shifting on it's own, you find you really end up letting it shift in automatic and not using the manual mode. And in automatic mode, there isn't much for you to "do", so I can see where they would/could feel that way.

The only complaint I have is the delay in upshifts in manual mode. I don't mean that the shift itself is slow, but the reaction time from when you decide/press the button to when the actual shift initiates. The shift itself is quick. Down shift/rev matching seem more responsive to your finger, but upshift, less so. you do not sense this when in automatic because you have no way of knowing the exact moment the trans has decided to trigger the shift, you just feel the shift. So automatic upshifts feel quicker.

My only concern is long term clutch wear. I noticed if you remove your foot from the brake while stationary, the car will creep forward and you can feel the clutch engage fully, which is fine. If you then give it a bit of gas, you can feel the clutch disingage/slip a bit and reengage, which I am sure smooths the acceleration. But I wonder how much additional wear this will cause doing this in traffic for long periods. Or whether it will matter at all. I don't think we will know until there are some units out there with higher miles on them.

In closing, I think I would opt for the pdk over stick if I buy another boxster. I'm ready to give up manuals. Would still convert to paddles. Maybe I wouldn't use them often, but would like the choice.

Quote
gedwin
Here is my observations regarding the PDK:

First, I expected to not like the buttons, and would opt to convert to paddles. I have been driving stick only my whole life, but believe manual trans only remained because it was the best performance choice available, and I am accepting of changes in life if they are better solutions. I also am aware of some peoples complaints that they feel "disconnected" using pdk.

This is what I found. I think I now understand why some feel disconnected with pdk. Although I discovered that I really do not like the buttons, the buttons are not at fault. The problem is that the transmission does such a great job shifting on it's own, you find you really end up letting it shift in automatic and not using the manual mode. And in automatic mode, there isn't much for you to "do", so I can see where they would/could feel that way.

The only complaint I have is the delay in upshifts in manual mode. I don't mean that the shift itself is slow, but the reaction time from when you decide/press the button to when the actual shift initiates. The shift itself is quick. Down shift/rev matching seem more responsive to your finger, but upshift, less so. you do not sense this when in automatic because you have no way of knowing the exact moment the trans has decided to trigger the shift, you just feel the shift. So automatic upshifts feel quicker.

My only concern is long term clutch wear. I noticed if you remove your foot from the brake while stationary, the car will creep forward and you can feel the clutch engage fully, which is fine. If you then give it a bit of gas, you can feel the clutch disingage/slip a bit and reengage, which I am sure smooths the acceleration. But I wonder how much additional wear this will cause doing this in traffic for long periods. Or whether it will matter at all. I don't think we will know until there are some units out there with higher miles on them.

In closing, I think I would opt for the pdk over stick if I buy another boxster. I'm ready to give up manuals. Would still convert to paddles. Maybe I wouldn't use them often, but would like the choice.

In one case the writer/driver was steering the car through a very sharp/high speed turn and the PDK upshifted in the middle of the turn. Upshifting in the middle of a turn, especially one being taken at speed and so on is generally considered a 'no no' due to the risk of the driver when shifting upsetting the car's balance at a very inopportune time. But the PDK did the shift so seamlessly that both the driver and the photographer turned and looked at either in amazement. There was no upset to the car and the gear change came at the best time.

The PDK I think based on what I've read is a very good transmission. Most car buyers think so too cause at least in the case of Porsches the overwhelming majority of new cars are sold with the PDK transmission. The percentage is high, around 80% or higher. (And in some cases, for some other brands, the percentage is 100% cause the old manual is no longer offered.)

As for the clutch wear... it is too early to say but I don't believe it will be a problem.

For one thing the clutches are huge, multi-plated, and there are two of them. Also, they both run 'wet' immersed in PDK transmission fluid. My experience with motorcycle wet clutches is they last and last and last. But they require the correct fluid and regular changing (at least with motorcycle clutches cause they run hotter and in some cases are subjected to severe duty (off road riding in dusty/muddy/wet conditions).

Also, all slush boxes (the old style automatics) have clutches, brake bands, that constantly slip during a stop and clutch band life is real good.

Only a WAG on my part, but I suspect the clutch engages a bit when the brake pedal is released. The releasing of the brake pedal can be taken as a sign the driver will soon want the car to accelerate. Furthermore, this inching/creeping forward mimics that of an automatic. Release the brake pedal and the car will in most cases begin to inch/creep forward. If one keeps the brake pedal depressed the clutches may remained disengaged and there is no slippage.

Regardless, what I would do with a PDK is treat it to an early fluid change, unless prohibited by the owners manual.

How early a fluid change? I might be tempted to have it changed at the end of break in and again at 8K or 13K miles later (at 10K or 15K miles) and every 30K to 50K miles thereafter. (IIRC the recommended PDK fluid change is every 90km which is 55K miles.)

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Quote
MarcW
In one case the writer/driver was steering the car through a very sharp/high speed turn and the PDK upshifted in the middle of the turn. Upshifting in the middle of a turn, especially one being taken at speed and so on is generally considered a 'no no' due to the risk of the driver when shifting upsetting the car's balance at a very inopportune time. But the PDK did the shift so seamlessly that both the driver and the photographer turned and looked at either in amazement. There was no upset to the car and the gear change came at the best time..

that's an interesting point. i had the boxster on a track once and there was one curve just before the long straight where i would go into the curve in 2nd but by the time i was getting into the straight, i was limited by the red line in 2nd. i couldn't go into the curve in 3rd (although i should have tried to see what the effect would have been) and obviously, i couldn't shift into 3rd in the middle or coming out of the curve. would have been interesting to see what a PDK would have done.

i've driven a 911 (997 gen II) turbo with PDK as well as a panamera turbo with PDK and all i can say is that if and when i buy another porsche, it will be with PDK. i've always driven manual trans all of my life because i hate slush boxes but the PDK is not a slush box. it's a manual trans that shifts better than you can. the direct connection between the gas pedal and rear wheels is solid, not slush.
but i do wonder about long term costs.

--
MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige.
Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010

With a manual, many times the driver will be either slamming the clutch so as not to slip back or feathering until the disc begins to char and smell bad. I like driving a stick, but there are some occasions being stuck on a sizable uphill in heavy stop-and-go traffic that can either be murder on a clutch or really annoying to the driver behind. As a seasoned urban driver, I'm pretty good at all this, but for others it could be a different case. Also, PDK gives a bit of a hill hold effect, right?

That is correct.

until the car has sufficient urge forward to prevent it from rolling backwards?

Sincerely,

MarcW.

By feel I'm guessing it's the brakes.

the clutches (brake bands) are used in the automatic to provide some engagement which is why an automatic transmission will creep forward with the brake released even with the engine at idle.

I don't have recent experience driving an automatic to know if this provides some hill-holding feature though but I don't recall ever having an automatic equipped vehicle rolling backwards when starting out on an uphill slope from a standstill.

Sincerely,

MarcW.