Re: You can go ...

Yep, if you saw my previous posts, I'm the guy who needs: a new clutch, (flywheel), (IMS), RMS, 4 brakes, 4 rotors (they're too worn), AOS, (front) motor mount... etc. Needless to say, I've been feeling pretty deflated. I love my car.

I've been taking it real easy on the car. Today we had some nice weather here in Chicago, I thought I'd put the top down. I hadn't put it down since the mechanic that is going to do the clutch inspected the engine bay. I don't think he did anything, it must be coincidence.

So what's the issue?

Well, when I put the top down, it sounded like the motor was dying. I thought... oh brother, what now?!

I drove the car to my destination hoping it was just a glitch. While pressing the switch to put the top up, it sounded less like the motor was dying and more like the a grinding/crackle sound.

Ok, so I thought, let me see if I can get it back down now.

This time, only the driver-side clam shell lifts, the passenger side stays down and appears to be pressing into what would be the b-pillar.

According to amount of hits on google regarding this issue, it appears to be quite common, and a classic nuisance.

Tonight, in my frustration to try and at least make sure I could get access to the "service position", I pried the unpainted metal clip off of the push rod connected to the top shell on the passenger side (couldn't see how to remove it and ended up destroying the metal clip). When I gently pressed on the push rod, it made a loud POP! and released from the lid/shell. Unfortunately, when it popped loose, it broke the plastic sleeve baring between the push rod end axle and (now destroyed) clip. I'm sure the clip and sleeve are not too hard to replace. I am worried about how I'll get the push rod end back into its hole, it's at least an inch off now.

Once the top shell was free-er I pressed the top function switch and, sure enough, the lid went up evenly, although it is a bit warped from the initial torque when the passenger side was being retained.

With the shell open, I removed the plastic housing over the motor and popped the pin that holds the cable into the motor system. The passenger side no longer has a stem, it must still be in the motor. Its just a gnarled mess of un-spun metal at the tip.

Looks like new cables will be needed. I think I'll do both to save a headache later. I imagine the drivers side is strained from the left being held down.

I have found a lot of topics on this issue, but I can't find any good pictures or diagrams with a DIY guide. A lot of the threads have "missing link" makers for images.

How long should it take, from where I'm at now, once I get the new cables?

I'll continue to do more research on my end, but PLEASE if anyone here has advice or a good link, please share it, I'd like to heard your experience with this.

What a tough week... I just ordered the clutch and RMS kit today too... as if that wasn't enough of a hit.

Thanks, for reading.

I hope your weekend is starting better than mine.

find every 2 years or so. Not sure if it really helps.

Have you bought the bentley manual? Not sure if it covers the top very well. It doesn't cover much very well, alas. Have you tried Pelican's how-to section? Or checked their book (101 boxster projects)

You got an RMS "kit"? What's that? Or do you mean IMS kit.

Grant

... here: [sites.google.com]
Anything you ever wanted to know about the top and more.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Hey Pedro,

Thanks for the tip and page link, I was looking at that very one late yesterday night. I've gone through the links, I understand things a but better now, but there just isn't a good enough DIY (for me) that shows pictures and explanations that match up of cable replacement. A few writeups I've found say things like, "reach blindly towards the back and then...". I just don't get enough out of that. I don't want to risk damaging anything.

If I do have to do this on my own, which I don't really have a choice... I'm in the financial hole right now, I will take pictures (I'm a photographer on the side so I can take good quality pictures) and help with a writeup. Maybe, Pedro, you would want to put it on your site when I'm done?

But back to my top issue...

There are 2 things that concern me at the moment:

-Now that I have released that push rod, I don't see how I'll ever get it back in it's correct position. It's almost 2 inches off now. Also, there is a lot of play from the front of the shell cover, near the B pillar, and it's not holding tight. I'm worried about excessive rain water getting in.

-I don't know how to remove ball joints. They say "remove the ball joint" without saying anything about technique or required force. I can only imagine how hard it will be to get it back in if I can't get it out. I'm worried about breaking the ball-cup/cavity joint. Any advice on this?

I'm hoping to have the parts before the end of this upcoming week. I need to resolve this quickly.

Quote
Dwass
.....
There are 2 things that concern me at the moment:

-Now that I have released that push rod, I don't see how I'll ever get it back in it's correct position. It's almost 2 inches off now. Also, there is a lot of play from the front of the shell cover, near the B pillar, and it's not holding tight. I'm worried about excessive rain water getting in.

-I don't know how to remove ball joints. They say "remove the ball joint" without saying anything about technique or required force. I can only imagine how hard it will be to get it back in if I can't get it out. I'm worried about breaking the ball-cup/cavity joint. Any advice on this?
.....

1. The black "hydraulic pushrod" actually contains a VERY LARGE spring inside, and it can be easily inserted into its receptacle hole in the V-lever by using a cordless drill (on its LOWEST torque setting) to rotate the V-lever to the correct position. Just make sure that both V-levers are synchronized when you are done inserting each push rod.

(Note that if you don't replace the plastic bush that you broke when removing the metal clip that attaches the "hydraulic" pushrod the functioning of the mechanism will not be as smooth. As to that little metal clip that you broke, just lifting the small middle metal tab away from the opposite side of the clip will allow you to remove the clip without damage for the next one that you may have to remove).

2. Removing the plastic ball cups requires a fair amount of force with a lever that is applied in a perpendicular direction to the pushrod onto which the ball cup is pressed. You can use a long pry bar, such as the ones that look like long flat-bladed screw drivers that have a bend near their blade. The trick is being able to reach under the rear of the convertible top frame and to make sure that you are getting a firm connection before applying force. Getting it back on requires much less force and it can be done by squeezing the ball cup onto the pushrod's steel ball by using the same type of lever, this time on the outside of the ball cup and pressing it in a perpendicular direction to the pushrod. You can also squeeze the two parts together effectively with Channel-lock pliers, but it's harder to reach in there with those. The angular, black, flat-sided ones that Sears sell work well because they apply force in a perpendicular fashion. If your ball cups are not red or brittle (as the red ones tend to get), they are very strong and flexible and cannot easily be broken by applying perpendicular force to them when trying to get them off or onto their steel ball cups.

On your original problem, the cause sounds like it was definitely a retracted or broken/unwound inner (speedometer-type) cable. On the 2000 and later Boxsters with the "B Version" transmissions, the cables can usually just be pulled out of their sheaths. On the "A Version" transmissions, separating the cables from the worm-gear entrance at the rear of the top transmission is much more difficult. If you have the smooth-sided cable sheaths on your Boxster, you should have the A Version transmissions.

Regards, Maurice.

Thank you! I believe you are just the person to speak with, too.

I'm sending you a PM.

"... I went ahead and ordered 2 new cables (left and right), I figure it would be wise to do both now. I also ordered 3 new gray plastic push-rod bearing sleeves (I had already broken 1), each was about $1.50, but it's better safe than sorry. I also ordered 7 of those metal clips at $1.50ish each. I know they use those in some other parts of the car (brake pedal) and the top alone uses 6. Maybe I can get the other clips off without a problem, but I'd hate to delay the repair if I didn't have enough.

1. I used Suncoast to order all the parts. I'm not sure how they compare to Sunset, but I didn't have time to compare. Do you have an opinion? All-in-all, the top parts set me back $80. I also ordered the long metal tube-like thing with the red plastic end that comes in the Porsche tool-kit (my car doesn't have one). It was only $7 and I read that it's used for this type of repair (?).

Suncoast and Sunset are both excellent sources for parts, in my experience.

2. I saw that there is some sort of tool that the recommend for removing ball-joints. I remember reading in another forum about it. It's like a flat-head screwdriver with a curve in the end and a split fork dividing it. I'm not sure how to use it or if it is useful for my situation so I wondered what your opinion was. I'd hate to break more parts in just trying to take things apart. I know that the plastic push-rod ends are not sold separately and an entire push-rod must be purchased.

The factory tool can be used, but those screwdriver-handled pry-bars are ideal. Harbor Freight sells them cheap, in a set of four. The cat's claw tool is available at Home Depot and works well also as it has that split fork at the end and is very tapered. The plastic ball cups are available from a guy in the Netherlands. If you end up needing them, PM me and I'll give you his info.

3. When I removed the frayed/broken, cable from the motor, it had nothing, but twisted strands and oil on the end. I imagine the long squared terminal piece must be in the motor. I hope my motor is ok. I haven't read anywhere about motor failure because of a broken cable.

The electric motors are pretty bullet-proof. The only thing that ever goes wrong with them is that they develop dead spots on the armature, but it's rare.

4. Do you have a link or some pictures of how to remove the transmissions? I know they have these plastic caps that hold the chamber foam down, but with those removed, it still doesn't want to move. I don't want to rip anything. It doesn't seem that I can replace the cable without removing the transmission.

Go to the link that Pedro provided, and to the DIY entitled "Installing a '03-'04 Top and Frame on a '97-'02 Boxster". Take a look at the Part II PDF, start at page 19 for instructions on how to remove the transmissions.

(We need to know what year your car is to know whether your have the "A Version" set-up, which I believe you do because of your smooth-sided cables).

5. Regarding the 2 cables, I'm not really sure I know what you mean about the A type and B type without seeing a comparative image. My cables are flat (patternless) black sheathed with woven wire rope inside. They terminal end that was still intact, has about an inch of elongated square compressed tip. I saw that they ones for sale online have a patterned sheath, somewhat carbon fiber looking. Did you indicate that there might be a way to just pull the woven rope and slide the new one in? I can imagine it being tricky to get the square end to line up with it's corresponding hole.

The first photo on page 17 of the Part II PDF shows a good clear photo of a smooth-sided cable. From your description, I'm reasonably sure that this is what you have. Those are more prone to stretching (the outer sheath stretches, effectively causing the inner speedometer-type cable to "retract" inside the sheath, which then causes the end to not be driven by the electric motor's output flange). You normally cannot pull the inner cable out of an A-version transmission, only on a B-version, cross-hatched ("looks like carbon fiber" in your description) outer sheaths. There's a procedure for removing the A Version cables from the transmissions which was written up by "Tool Pants" on Renntech.org about 5 years ago, but I couldn't find the link right now.

Thanks again for the help. I'm looking forward to your input on what I've discussed above.

Regards, Maurice.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2011 08:47AM by MauriceonLongIsland. (view changes)

Thank you Maurice!!

You sure know your stuff!

Parts are still on the way... Hopefully the weather will be nice by the time the package gets here and I can do the work.

There does seem to be more water getting into the rear because the tension is off on the failed side of the shell. I'm keeping an eye on the condensation in the car.

It was in the 50s today in Chicago so I noticed more condensing on the windows than usual. Drains seem to be working well, but the black foam has that saturated look.

I hope to take pictures during the repair and hopefully share them and my experience with all of you.

More to come!

Glad you are getting it sorted out.

There is a way to straighten out a slightly tweaked clamshell by removing it and having two people apply pressure at strategic points. Primitive, but it works if the tweak is not severe (i.e., no crease).

There was a post on RennTech a few years ago that showed "mark in sunnyvale" doing the repair. If I find it on RennTech, I will post the link here.

Regards, Maurice.

Thank you!

My cover is slightly bent... but I can't see it when it's in the down position. I'll know for sure when I get everything replaced. I appreciate the link if you find it!

Still waiting on parts to arrive....

Meanwhile, we have had a ton of rain here in Chicago... I noticed more water than usual getting in from the back from pressure loss due to push-rod disconnect. A lot of condensing on the rear window. Today it was really hot so I'm hoping evaporation was effective.

I'll be back when I get the parts... I'm sure I'll have a few questions... Stay tuned!

I had the same problem last week Tuesday - I lowered the top but only one side lowered and the other side stayed as is. The metal cover was twisted at an acute angle when I heard the electric motor start to strain with the uneven tension. I was stuck with the top half up and half down and 120km from my nearest Porsche OPC.
The diagnosis over the phone the next day was a snapped cable, but the biggest danger was that when you prise off the cable connectors,the hood can be under tension and spring back causing damage to the paintwork and metal hood. So I drove the 120km to the OPC and paid the $750 to have 2 x new cables and 2 x connectors fitted with the latest types.
You may find that your cable connectors are coloured red (early type) which have been superceded by the later (white) coloured connectors.
This was a pricey repair for me but as I don't have an extra pair of hands to help me with faulty cables under tension and the prospect of a partial respray if I cocked up and the paintwork was damaged, I took the softer option and had the experts repair the fault.. The service manager noted that you should replace the cables every 4-5 years to prevent possible extensive damage to the metal hood, inner neoprene membrane's and transmission.
I guess the upside is that the repair has a 2 year warranty now....