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Message: Not all Porsche specialists are well special. If the bearing retrofit is of some interest to you...
Changed By: MarcW
Change Date: March 12, 2012 05:24PM
Not all Porsche specialists are well special. If the bearing retrofit is of some interest to you...
Change Date: March 12, 2012 05:24PM
Not all Porsche specialists are well special. If the bearing retrofit is of some interest to you...
[quote=porca911]
Can you believe this, one Porsche specialist I spoke with in the UK today said that they can change the seals (RMS & IMS seal) but if the IMS bearing has play in it they will tell you that you have had it and recommend a rebuild. They don't fit the retro kit! And they have been running for many years. I was shocked and didn't know what to say to them.
Others recommend living with the oil leak until it gets bad. I wonder if fitting a magnetic sump plug and changing the oil every 3/6 months (and seriously checking the oil filter at changes) is a sane option? Thoughts anyone... This does feel like Russian roulette though.
And one specialist say that they use 5w/40 or 10w/60 oil as it leaks less. This doesn't make much sense to me. Does anyone know if this is the case?[/quote]
I'm sure, well pretty sure, there are UK shops that do this. Two I would check with right now are Autofarm and Hartech. If one or both can't help you ask if it can recommend a shop that does the bearing retrofit.
Now just to warn you. IIRC both of these shops do engine rebuilds and one or both might see that as the only solution and turn you down for a bearing retrofit and even be unable (or unwilling) to recommend a shop that does the bearing retrofit. Be prepared to get the polite "bugger off" response, though I doubt you'll get this from either shop. Both as best I can tell are well respected shops and even if neither does the upgrade would be willing to suggest a shop that can help you.
Also, you might check with the company that offers the IMS bearing upgrade/retrofit kit and see if it can suggest any shops in the UK.
If the leak is just an RMS leak then you can live with it.
The trouble is that in some cases the leak can be from the IMS. Now from what I understand and have seen in at least a few pics that the 'leak' from the RMS/IMS area is not that bad. The leak is evident by a bit of oil under the tranny or even a spot on the ground once the transmission is removed and that area of the engine is exposed.
And just because there might be some signs of an IMS leak is not proof positive the IMS bearing is going bad. As I have covered before when my 02 had its RMS replaced (back in '02) the standard operating procedure was to replace the IMS end plate (this is not the bearing!) with a new end plate with an improved oil seal, and use 3 new micro-sealed bolts.
I was told that some leaks blamed on an RMS were in fact due to a leaking IMS end plate/bolts.
I do not know if the leak that is simply an oil leak at the RMS/IMS area differs from that of an oil leak from that same area but due to a going bad IMS bearing.
What does all of the above mean? Well, I do not know if a RMS leak is just a harmless RMS leak, or even a harmless RMS/old IMS end plate/bolts leak, or a leak that signals/is indicative of an IMS bearing.
Switching to a different oil can sometimes affect a mildly seeping oil seal.
Even refilling the engine with fresh engine oil can sometimes diminish a leak. As oil is used it collects water and unburned gas which make the oil more fluid and a bit more prone to making its way past a marginal seal.
If you are running say Mobil 1 0w-40 oil you can switch to an *approved* 5w-40 oil, or even a 5w-50 oil. Mobil 1 makes such an oil (and I just had my 02 Boxster filled with this oil and the Turbo gets the same oil next oil/filter service).
I would not advise you to run a 10w-60 oil. The camshaft/valve lifter bucket contact points are splash lubed from the excess oil that comes from between the valve bucket and its bore in the head assembly. A heavier ("(10w" -60 is 'heavier when cold and "60") oil when hot) might result in this splash lube characteristic being compromised. (There are other areas of the engine where this oil might interfere with the engine's proper operation, such as in the VarioCam system.) In short the 10w-60 oil probably does nothing for the leak and it could result in wear at the camshaft lobes/bucket contact point.
In a pinch -- and if you are 'desperate' to have the seal oil tight you can select an approved oil that is a group 5 oil. My info is group 5 oils are ester based oils and one characteristic of an ester based oil (besides that they are usually a very good oil), is that ester based oils tend to cause some seals/gaskets to swell slightly and in doing so can fix a mild seal/gasket seep.
The downside is the seal swells, and then if you ever switch away from an ester oil the seal could shrink and the mild leak is something less mild.
Depending upon how you use your car more frequent oil/filter services might be called for. Short trips, cold weather, lots of idling, low speed driving, all work to increase the amount of water/unburned gas content of the oil and these lower its viscosity and this ain't good.
You can check the filter every oil change but the problem is that what often happens is someone finds something in the oil and then goes into a panic thinking the engine is near death when the stuff found is just the engine being an engine, an engine that once in awhile sheds metal and means nothing, unless the metal particles are ferrous. Alum. flakes (tiny flakes) in the old oil from an all alum. engine is like finding sand in the Sahara. Ferrous metal particles in the oil is another matter.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
Can you believe this, one Porsche specialist I spoke with in the UK today said that they can change the seals (RMS & IMS seal) but if the IMS bearing has play in it they will tell you that you have had it and recommend a rebuild. They don't fit the retro kit! And they have been running for many years. I was shocked and didn't know what to say to them.
Others recommend living with the oil leak until it gets bad. I wonder if fitting a magnetic sump plug and changing the oil every 3/6 months (and seriously checking the oil filter at changes) is a sane option? Thoughts anyone... This does feel like Russian roulette though.
And one specialist say that they use 5w/40 or 10w/60 oil as it leaks less. This doesn't make much sense to me. Does anyone know if this is the case?[/quote]
I'm sure, well pretty sure, there are UK shops that do this. Two I would check with right now are Autofarm and Hartech. If one or both can't help you ask if it can recommend a shop that does the bearing retrofit.
Now just to warn you. IIRC both of these shops do engine rebuilds and one or both might see that as the only solution and turn you down for a bearing retrofit and even be unable (or unwilling) to recommend a shop that does the bearing retrofit. Be prepared to get the polite "bugger off" response, though I doubt you'll get this from either shop. Both as best I can tell are well respected shops and even if neither does the upgrade would be willing to suggest a shop that can help you.
Also, you might check with the company that offers the IMS bearing upgrade/retrofit kit and see if it can suggest any shops in the UK.
If the leak is just an RMS leak then you can live with it.
The trouble is that in some cases the leak can be from the IMS. Now from what I understand and have seen in at least a few pics that the 'leak' from the RMS/IMS area is not that bad. The leak is evident by a bit of oil under the tranny or even a spot on the ground once the transmission is removed and that area of the engine is exposed.
And just because there might be some signs of an IMS leak is not proof positive the IMS bearing is going bad. As I have covered before when my 02 had its RMS replaced (back in '02) the standard operating procedure was to replace the IMS end plate (this is not the bearing!) with a new end plate with an improved oil seal, and use 3 new micro-sealed bolts.
I was told that some leaks blamed on an RMS were in fact due to a leaking IMS end plate/bolts.
I do not know if the leak that is simply an oil leak at the RMS/IMS area differs from that of an oil leak from that same area but due to a going bad IMS bearing.
What does all of the above mean? Well, I do not know if a RMS leak is just a harmless RMS leak, or even a harmless RMS/old IMS end plate/bolts leak, or a leak that signals/is indicative of an IMS bearing.
Switching to a different oil can sometimes affect a mildly seeping oil seal.
Even refilling the engine with fresh engine oil can sometimes diminish a leak. As oil is used it collects water and unburned gas which make the oil more fluid and a bit more prone to making its way past a marginal seal.
If you are running say Mobil 1 0w-40 oil you can switch to an *approved* 5w-40 oil, or even a 5w-50 oil. Mobil 1 makes such an oil (and I just had my 02 Boxster filled with this oil and the Turbo gets the same oil next oil/filter service).
I would not advise you to run a 10w-60 oil. The camshaft/valve lifter bucket contact points are splash lubed from the excess oil that comes from between the valve bucket and its bore in the head assembly. A heavier ("(10w" -60 is 'heavier when cold and "60") oil when hot) might result in this splash lube characteristic being compromised. (There are other areas of the engine where this oil might interfere with the engine's proper operation, such as in the VarioCam system.) In short the 10w-60 oil probably does nothing for the leak and it could result in wear at the camshaft lobes/bucket contact point.
In a pinch -- and if you are 'desperate' to have the seal oil tight you can select an approved oil that is a group 5 oil. My info is group 5 oils are ester based oils and one characteristic of an ester based oil (besides that they are usually a very good oil), is that ester based oils tend to cause some seals/gaskets to swell slightly and in doing so can fix a mild seal/gasket seep.
The downside is the seal swells, and then if you ever switch away from an ester oil the seal could shrink and the mild leak is something less mild.
Depending upon how you use your car more frequent oil/filter services might be called for. Short trips, cold weather, lots of idling, low speed driving, all work to increase the amount of water/unburned gas content of the oil and these lower its viscosity and this ain't good.
You can check the filter every oil change but the problem is that what often happens is someone finds something in the oil and then goes into a panic thinking the engine is near death when the stuff found is just the engine being an engine, an engine that once in awhile sheds metal and means nothing, unless the metal particles are ferrous. Alum. flakes (tiny flakes) in the old oil from an all alum. engine is like finding sand in the Sahara. Ferrous metal particles in the oil is another matter.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
Original Message
Author: MarcWDate: March 12, 2012 05:21PM
Not all Porsche specialists are well special. If the bearing retrofit is of some interest to you...
[quote=porca911]
Can you believe this, one Porsche specialist I spoke with in the UK today said that they can change the seals (RMS & IMS seal) but if the IMS bearing has play in it they will tell you that you have had it and recommend a rebuild. They don't fit the retro kit! And they have been running for many years. I was shocked and didn't know what to say to them.
Others recommend living with the oil leak until it gets bad. I wonder if fitting a magnetic sump plug and changing the oil every 3/6 months (and seriously checking the oil filter at changes) is a sane option? Thoughts anyone... This does feel like Russian roulette though.
And one specialist say that they use 5w/40 or 10w/60 oil as it leaks less. This doesn't make much sense to me. Does anyone know if this is the case?[/quote]
I'm sure, well pretty sure, there are UK shops that do this. Two I would check with right now are Autofarm and Hartech. If one or both can't help you ask if it can recommend a shop that does the bearing retrofit.
Now just to warn you. IIRC both of these shops do engine rebuilds and one or both might see that as the only solution and turn you down for a bearing retrofit and even be unable (or unwilling) to recommend a shop that does the bearing retrofit. Be prepared to get the polite "bugger off" response, though I doubt you'll get this from either shop. Both as best I can tell are well respected shops and even if neither does the upgrade would be willing to suggest a shop that can help you.
Also, you might check with the company that offers the IMS bearing upgrade/retrofit kit and see if it can suggest any shops in the UK.
If the leak is just an RMS leak then you can live with it.
The trouble is that in some cases the leak can be from the IMS. Now from what I understand and have seen in at least a few pics that the 'leak' from the RMS/IMS area is not that bad. The leak is evident by a bit of oil under the tranny or even a spot on the ground once the transmission is removed and that area of the engine is exposed.
And just because there might be some signs of an IMS leak is not proof positive the IMS bearing is going bad. As I have covered before when my 02 had its RMS replaced (back in '02) the standard operating procedure was to replace the IMS end plate (this is not the bearing!) with a new end plate with an improved oil seal, and use 3 new micro-sealed bolts.
I was told that some leaks blamed on an RMS were in fact due to a leaking IMS end plate/bolts.
I do not know if the leak that is simply an oil leak at the RMS/IMS area differs from that of an oil leak from that same area but due to a going bad IMS bearing.
What does all of the above mean? Well, I do not know if a RMS leak is just a harmless RMS leak, or even a harmless RMS/old IMS end plate/bolts leak, or a leak that signals/is indicative of an IMS bearing.
Switching to a different oil can sometimes affect a mildly seeping oil seal.
Even refilling the engine with fresh engine oil can sometimes diminish a leak. As oil is used it collects water and unburned gas which make the oil more fluid and a bit more prone to making its way past a marginal seal.
If you are running say Mobil 1 0w-40 oil you can switch to an *approved* 5w-40 oil, or even a 5w-50 oil. Mobil 1 makes such an oil (and I just had my 02 Boxster filled with this oil and the Turbo gets the same oil next oil/filter service).
I would not advise you to run a 10w-60 oil. The camshaft/valve lifter bucket contact points are splash lubed from the excess oil that comes from between the valve bucket and its bore in the head assembly. A heavier ("10w" and "60") oil might result in this splash lube characteristic being compromised. (There are other areas of the engine where this oil might interfere with the engine's proper operation, such as in the VarioCam system.) In short the 10w-60 oil probably does nothing for the leak and it could result in wear at the camshaft lobes/bucket contact point.
In a pinch -- and if you are 'desperate' to have the seal oil tight you can select an approved oil that is a group 5 oil. My info is group 5 oils are ester based oils and one characteristic of an ester based oil (besides that they are usually a very good oil), is that ester based oils tend to cause some seals/gaskets to swell slightly and in doing so can fix a mild seal/gasket seep.
The downside is the seal swells, and then if you ever switch away from an ester oil the seal could shrink and the mild leak is something less mild.
Depending upon how you use your car more frequent oil/filter services might be called for. Short trips, cold weather, lots of idling, low speed driving, all work to increase the amount of water/unburned gas content of the oil and these lower its viscosity and this ain't good.
You can check the filter every oil change but the problem is that what often happens is someone finds something in the oil and then goes into a panic thinking the engine is near death when the stuff found is just the engine being an engine, an engine that once in awhile sheds metal and means nothing, unless the metal particles are ferrous. Alum. flakes (tiny flakes) in the old oil from an all alum. engine is like finding sand in the Sahara. Ferrous metal particles in the oil is another matter.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
Can you believe this, one Porsche specialist I spoke with in the UK today said that they can change the seals (RMS & IMS seal) but if the IMS bearing has play in it they will tell you that you have had it and recommend a rebuild. They don't fit the retro kit! And they have been running for many years. I was shocked and didn't know what to say to them.
Others recommend living with the oil leak until it gets bad. I wonder if fitting a magnetic sump plug and changing the oil every 3/6 months (and seriously checking the oil filter at changes) is a sane option? Thoughts anyone... This does feel like Russian roulette though.
And one specialist say that they use 5w/40 or 10w/60 oil as it leaks less. This doesn't make much sense to me. Does anyone know if this is the case?[/quote]
I'm sure, well pretty sure, there are UK shops that do this. Two I would check with right now are Autofarm and Hartech. If one or both can't help you ask if it can recommend a shop that does the bearing retrofit.
Now just to warn you. IIRC both of these shops do engine rebuilds and one or both might see that as the only solution and turn you down for a bearing retrofit and even be unable (or unwilling) to recommend a shop that does the bearing retrofit. Be prepared to get the polite "bugger off" response, though I doubt you'll get this from either shop. Both as best I can tell are well respected shops and even if neither does the upgrade would be willing to suggest a shop that can help you.
Also, you might check with the company that offers the IMS bearing upgrade/retrofit kit and see if it can suggest any shops in the UK.
If the leak is just an RMS leak then you can live with it.
The trouble is that in some cases the leak can be from the IMS. Now from what I understand and have seen in at least a few pics that the 'leak' from the RMS/IMS area is not that bad. The leak is evident by a bit of oil under the tranny or even a spot on the ground once the transmission is removed and that area of the engine is exposed.
And just because there might be some signs of an IMS leak is not proof positive the IMS bearing is going bad. As I have covered before when my 02 had its RMS replaced (back in '02) the standard operating procedure was to replace the IMS end plate (this is not the bearing!) with a new end plate with an improved oil seal, and use 3 new micro-sealed bolts.
I was told that some leaks blamed on an RMS were in fact due to a leaking IMS end plate/bolts.
I do not know if the leak that is simply an oil leak at the RMS/IMS area differs from that of an oil leak from that same area but due to a going bad IMS bearing.
What does all of the above mean? Well, I do not know if a RMS leak is just a harmless RMS leak, or even a harmless RMS/old IMS end plate/bolts leak, or a leak that signals/is indicative of an IMS bearing.
Switching to a different oil can sometimes affect a mildly seeping oil seal.
Even refilling the engine with fresh engine oil can sometimes diminish a leak. As oil is used it collects water and unburned gas which make the oil more fluid and a bit more prone to making its way past a marginal seal.
If you are running say Mobil 1 0w-40 oil you can switch to an *approved* 5w-40 oil, or even a 5w-50 oil. Mobil 1 makes such an oil (and I just had my 02 Boxster filled with this oil and the Turbo gets the same oil next oil/filter service).
I would not advise you to run a 10w-60 oil. The camshaft/valve lifter bucket contact points are splash lubed from the excess oil that comes from between the valve bucket and its bore in the head assembly. A heavier ("10w" and "60") oil might result in this splash lube characteristic being compromised. (There are other areas of the engine where this oil might interfere with the engine's proper operation, such as in the VarioCam system.) In short the 10w-60 oil probably does nothing for the leak and it could result in wear at the camshaft lobes/bucket contact point.
In a pinch -- and if you are 'desperate' to have the seal oil tight you can select an approved oil that is a group 5 oil. My info is group 5 oils are ester based oils and one characteristic of an ester based oil (besides that they are usually a very good oil), is that ester based oils tend to cause some seals/gaskets to swell slightly and in doing so can fix a mild seal/gasket seep.
The downside is the seal swells, and then if you ever switch away from an ester oil the seal could shrink and the mild leak is something less mild.
Depending upon how you use your car more frequent oil/filter services might be called for. Short trips, cold weather, lots of idling, low speed driving, all work to increase the amount of water/unburned gas content of the oil and these lower its viscosity and this ain't good.
You can check the filter every oil change but the problem is that what often happens is someone finds something in the oil and then goes into a panic thinking the engine is near death when the stuff found is just the engine being an engine, an engine that once in awhile sheds metal and means nothing, unless the metal particles are ferrous. Alum. flakes (tiny flakes) in the old oil from an all alum. engine is like finding sand in the Sahara. Ferrous metal particles in the oil is another matter.
Sincerely,
MarcW.