My 2012 Boxster burns oil which the dealer says is normal. |  |  |
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Jeff (Philly) - Monday, 30 July, 2012, at 3:33:24 pm |
FYI, My 2012 is my fourth Boxster and I never added oil to the previous models except for an oil change. After
3000 miles on the 2012 I had to add a quart. I called service at the dealer and was told that this generation (09-12) has direct fuel injection which causes the car to burn oil. I believe he said it would do that for the first 15,000 miles.
Jeff Benson:
2016 Boxster, See it here: www.greatvalleyhouse.com/Boxster
First car: 1952 Hudson Hornet
First roadster: 1962 Austin Healy 3000 III
Still have: Computer free 1974 MGB
Previous Porsches since 1982: 924, 944, 944S, and four Boxsters; 97, 03, 08 & 2012
3000 miles on the 2012 I had to add a quart. I called service at the dealer and was told that this generation (09-12) has direct fuel injection which causes the car to burn oil. I believe he said it would do that for the first 15,000 miles.
Jeff Benson:
2016 Boxster, See it here: www.greatvalleyhouse.com/Boxster
First car: 1952 Hudson Hornet
First roadster: 1962 Austin Healy 3000 III
Still have: Computer free 1974 MGB
Previous Porsches since 1982: 924, 944, 944S, and four Boxsters; 97, 03, 08 & 2012
| One quart in 3K miles for a new car is not an alarming amount of oil and in no ... MarcW - Monday, 30 July, 2012, at 3:55:18 pm |
way makes your new Boxster an oil burner.
Generally as an engine breaks in it will use less oil so relax.
If the engine oil is what the engine came with from the factory you might see oil consumption drop by having the oil/filter changed. As oil is in service it collects water and unburned gasoline and these can dilute the oil and make it more prone to foaming and this produces more oil vapor in the crankcase.
Modern oils are high detergent which can also lead to a propensity to foam. Modern engines are designed to remove air from oil but there's a limit. The result is oil is burned but not by oil making it past the rings or valve stem seals but simply making it through the air/oil separator.
Fresh oil is more viscous and has a fresh additive package which can resist the foaming tendency.
After an oil/filter change if you have not already done so be sure you try to subject the engine to some higher loads.
Break in guidelines caution against too high of revs, for a good reason, but there's something to be gained by giving the engine a good dose of throttle as long as the engine is fully up to temp and you do not lug the engine.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
Generally as an engine breaks in it will use less oil so relax.
If the engine oil is what the engine came with from the factory you might see oil consumption drop by having the oil/filter changed. As oil is in service it collects water and unburned gasoline and these can dilute the oil and make it more prone to foaming and this produces more oil vapor in the crankcase.
Modern oils are high detergent which can also lead to a propensity to foam. Modern engines are designed to remove air from oil but there's a limit. The result is oil is burned but not by oil making it past the rings or valve stem seals but simply making it through the air/oil separator.
Fresh oil is more viscous and has a fresh additive package which can resist the foaming tendency.
After an oil/filter change if you have not already done so be sure you try to subject the engine to some higher loads.
Break in guidelines caution against too high of revs, for a good reason, but there's something to be gained by giving the engine a good dose of throttle as long as the engine is fully up to temp and you do not lug the engine.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
| Some true, some maybe less so. grant - Monday, 30 July, 2012, at 7:20:42 pm |
Cars burn oil for one reason:
1. loose tolerances, whether its rings, valve guides, seals, etc.
The only question is how that occurs. As Marc says below, it can be normal for a car to burn some oil when new, as the parts mate. When new they actually don't fit, but use wears them in to match each other. This is why break-in is so critical. Note that the most critical break in occurred before you ever got the car.
I had many cars that burned a moderate amount of oil all their lives, and went 200-300k. So moderate use is not a problem in and of itself. On the other hand, my last 3 cars, two of which i had from new, burn essentially zero. Under very hot, high load conditions they use 1/5 qt. My Audi did this with thinnish 5w30 in the recent heat, and my boxster used a tiny bit at the last few track events. Thin (hot) oil finds its way through even tight tolerances.
So i would say no, it is not "normal" any longer. It may well be within spec, which i believe is officially 1 L per 900 miles - awful. Ask Gundo.
As to the claim that DFI causes oil consumption - i don;t believe it should. It is possible that the DFI motors use more oil, but not because they are DFI. One possible link would be that DFI motors do have a tendency to accumulate unburned gasoline in the oil - "fuel dilution". Since fuel is a solvent of oil, it can make it (drum roll please) thin. See above. excessive dilution is, in my opinion however, a fault. I expect - our that like regular motors it occurs more in cars that are driven cold. Dilution is normal, but running at 200 deg F should boil off fuel via normal crankcase ventilation - our "still" the famous (infamous?) AOS.
I would continue to complain if it does not diminish normally after another 3k or so.
Bear in mind its both a new car and a stupidly hot summer, and the factory fill is closer, IMNSHO, to a 0w35 than a 0w40
Anyway, that's my speculation on various issues.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
1. loose tolerances, whether its rings, valve guides, seals, etc.
The only question is how that occurs. As Marc says below, it can be normal for a car to burn some oil when new, as the parts mate. When new they actually don't fit, but use wears them in to match each other. This is why break-in is so critical. Note that the most critical break in occurred before you ever got the car.
I had many cars that burned a moderate amount of oil all their lives, and went 200-300k. So moderate use is not a problem in and of itself. On the other hand, my last 3 cars, two of which i had from new, burn essentially zero. Under very hot, high load conditions they use 1/5 qt. My Audi did this with thinnish 5w30 in the recent heat, and my boxster used a tiny bit at the last few track events. Thin (hot) oil finds its way through even tight tolerances.
So i would say no, it is not "normal" any longer. It may well be within spec, which i believe is officially 1 L per 900 miles - awful. Ask Gundo.
As to the claim that DFI causes oil consumption - i don;t believe it should. It is possible that the DFI motors use more oil, but not because they are DFI. One possible link would be that DFI motors do have a tendency to accumulate unburned gasoline in the oil - "fuel dilution". Since fuel is a solvent of oil, it can make it (drum roll please) thin. See above. excessive dilution is, in my opinion however, a fault. I expect - our that like regular motors it occurs more in cars that are driven cold. Dilution is normal, but running at 200 deg F should boil off fuel via normal crankcase ventilation - our "still" the famous (infamous?) AOS.
I would continue to complain if it does not diminish normally after another 3k or so.
Bear in mind its both a new car and a stupidly hot summer, and the factory fill is closer, IMNSHO, to a 0w35 than a 0w40
Anyway, that's my speculation on various issues.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
| Re: Some true, some maybe less so. MarcW - Monday, 30 July, 2012, at 9:21:36 pm |
I can't see how the OP can complain, upon what basis he can base his complaint, when the car is performing within Porsche guidelines.
Have to add that I believe the OP is getting himself worked up over nothing. There is too much of new owners looking for problems, signs of problems, when there are none.
Anyhow, a relatively new engine used 1 quart of oil in 3K miles. That's well above the consumption threshold (1 quart in 600 miles IIRC) at which point Porsche might elect to do something.
With 1 quart of oil in 3K miles, with no other signs of engine trouble, the OP is just asking to be labeled a well, I don't know what, in the eyes of the dealer.
But of course it is up to the OP if he wants to push this, try to escalate this issue.
I would suggest the OP consider changing the oil/filter. I would remain with whatever the factory fill is, Mobil 1 0w-40 probably.
I'm sorry but I have not seen any signs of increased oil consumption -- or a propensity to leak oil -- from either one of my cars using this oil in even very hot weather, thus I see no need to switch oil brands/viscosity at this time. The switch to another oil could "cure" the oil consumption but for the same reason a fresh fill of Mobil 1 0w-40 oil would "cure" the oil consumption: The simple explanation is the oil currently in the engine is heavily contaminated with unburned gas and water and the effect this has on the oil accounts for the apparent increase in oil consumption.
Anyhow, now is not the time to change horses in mid-stream. The OP and his engine has a history of using this oil. To change oil brands/viscosity now now can only cloud the issue.
I would agree with you the OP should monitor the oil consumption in case -- very slim chance of this -- but in case it gets worse. Increasing oil consumption is not something a healthy engine does and this 1 quart in 3K miles might (but again I have to stress chances this is the case are very very slim) be the early warning signs of heavier oil consumption that arises from a sick engine provided that a careful and disciplined monitoring of the oil level finds the oil consumption is 1) real; and 2) getting worse. The OP stands a much better chance of getting something done about this if he can show with the proper documentation the oil consumption is getting worse.
The OP could ask the dealer/service department for guidelines as to what kind of monitoring it would require to satisfy itself and PCNA/Porsche the oil consumption is real and worsening. At the same time the OP can ask about an oil change. Would the dealer prefer the existing oil remain in service or could the OP change the oil, with the tech verifying the oil level, and then proceed drive the car and to being the close/careful monitoring of the engine's oil consumption.
Assuming the oil consumption is not arising from an engine problem, the OP has to consider his style of driving. Lots of idling, high rpm driving, can increase oil consumption, sometimes rather dramatically. Such driving might arise as one becomes more familiar with his new car and begins pushing it harder.
Might mention that this oil consumption might have appeared after some hotter driving (in both the type and the climate sense) preceded by some cooler driving (again in both the type and the climate sense).
In short the engine was consuming oil all along the consumed oil being replaced by an accumulation of water and unburned gasoline. When temps climbed with the OP starting to push the engine harder, the water/unburned gasoline boiled away and viola, the oil level dropped rather suddenly and the extrapolation is the engine's an oil burner.
BTW, I have to point out that in some (I would dare say most) cases of an "oil burner" this oil does not slip past the rings, by the valve stems/guides/seals but simply is routed from the crankcase to the engine by way of an AOS that is unable to separate and return to the engine crankcase/oil sump the considerable volume of oil that passes through it in the form of oil vapor.
Lastly, in agreement with you, I know of no reason, no confirmed reason, why a DFI engine should use more oil than the older generation engine.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
Have to add that I believe the OP is getting himself worked up over nothing. There is too much of new owners looking for problems, signs of problems, when there are none.
Anyhow, a relatively new engine used 1 quart of oil in 3K miles. That's well above the consumption threshold (1 quart in 600 miles IIRC) at which point Porsche might elect to do something.
With 1 quart of oil in 3K miles, with no other signs of engine trouble, the OP is just asking to be labeled a well, I don't know what, in the eyes of the dealer.
But of course it is up to the OP if he wants to push this, try to escalate this issue.
I would suggest the OP consider changing the oil/filter. I would remain with whatever the factory fill is, Mobil 1 0w-40 probably.
I'm sorry but I have not seen any signs of increased oil consumption -- or a propensity to leak oil -- from either one of my cars using this oil in even very hot weather, thus I see no need to switch oil brands/viscosity at this time. The switch to another oil could "cure" the oil consumption but for the same reason a fresh fill of Mobil 1 0w-40 oil would "cure" the oil consumption: The simple explanation is the oil currently in the engine is heavily contaminated with unburned gas and water and the effect this has on the oil accounts for the apparent increase in oil consumption.
Anyhow, now is not the time to change horses in mid-stream. The OP and his engine has a history of using this oil. To change oil brands/viscosity now now can only cloud the issue.
I would agree with you the OP should monitor the oil consumption in case -- very slim chance of this -- but in case it gets worse. Increasing oil consumption is not something a healthy engine does and this 1 quart in 3K miles might (but again I have to stress chances this is the case are very very slim) be the early warning signs of heavier oil consumption that arises from a sick engine provided that a careful and disciplined monitoring of the oil level finds the oil consumption is 1) real; and 2) getting worse. The OP stands a much better chance of getting something done about this if he can show with the proper documentation the oil consumption is getting worse.
The OP could ask the dealer/service department for guidelines as to what kind of monitoring it would require to satisfy itself and PCNA/Porsche the oil consumption is real and worsening. At the same time the OP can ask about an oil change. Would the dealer prefer the existing oil remain in service or could the OP change the oil, with the tech verifying the oil level, and then proceed drive the car and to being the close/careful monitoring of the engine's oil consumption.
Assuming the oil consumption is not arising from an engine problem, the OP has to consider his style of driving. Lots of idling, high rpm driving, can increase oil consumption, sometimes rather dramatically. Such driving might arise as one becomes more familiar with his new car and begins pushing it harder.
Might mention that this oil consumption might have appeared after some hotter driving (in both the type and the climate sense) preceded by some cooler driving (again in both the type and the climate sense).
In short the engine was consuming oil all along the consumed oil being replaced by an accumulation of water and unburned gasoline. When temps climbed with the OP starting to push the engine harder, the water/unburned gasoline boiled away and viola, the oil level dropped rather suddenly and the extrapolation is the engine's an oil burner.
BTW, I have to point out that in some (I would dare say most) cases of an "oil burner" this oil does not slip past the rings, by the valve stems/guides/seals but simply is routed from the crankcase to the engine by way of an AOS that is unable to separate and return to the engine crankcase/oil sump the considerable volume of oil that passes through it in the form of oil vapor.
Lastly, in agreement with you, I know of no reason, no confirmed reason, why a DFI engine should use more oil than the older generation engine.
Sincerely,
MarcW.
| For the record, i am not suggesting the OP change oil brand/viscosity at the moment.. but grant - Monday, 30 July, 2012, at 9:36:29 pm |
In hot weather, and under all the blah, blah conditions that lead to oil use in a solid motor, 0w40 is only marginally a "40", and then only when new.
So it would use a bit more in the recent heat wave.
I'd also be careful withe the dilution/ evaporation as an explanation in this particular case. I agree that phenomenon is very real - i had a car that did it all the time - used (apparently) no oil, then used a quart instantly. (and for the record that car is still running strong, 18 years later, burning 1 qt/k and *falling every year*) That was in fact due to slow, consistent use when cold, oil replaced by fuel, and then a hot drive to burn it all off.
But that does not explain the drop of oil over 3000 miles in a car with only 3000 miles on it. No longer sequence can have occurred, yet! It went in 3k miles, end of story.
And i reiterate that while in "spec" it is far from normal. Saying so cannot be faulted. By the same token, as i said, cars can burn that quantity and run for 20 years beautifully - but its still not normal ... not anymore.
Now, why would so much oil go through the AOS? And only int he OP's car. Mine got so overloaded it blew a cloud that ate lightning.... but no measureable consumption followed.
I dont see the mechanism for that in some cars but not most.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
So it would use a bit more in the recent heat wave.
I'd also be careful withe the dilution/ evaporation as an explanation in this particular case. I agree that phenomenon is very real - i had a car that did it all the time - used (apparently) no oil, then used a quart instantly. (and for the record that car is still running strong, 18 years later, burning 1 qt/k and *falling every year*) That was in fact due to slow, consistent use when cold, oil replaced by fuel, and then a hot drive to burn it all off.
But that does not explain the drop of oil over 3000 miles in a car with only 3000 miles on it. No longer sequence can have occurred, yet! It went in 3k miles, end of story.
And i reiterate that while in "spec" it is far from normal. Saying so cannot be faulted. By the same token, as i said, cars can burn that quantity and run for 20 years beautifully - but its still not normal ... not anymore.
Now, why would so much oil go through the AOS? And only int he OP's car. Mine got so overloaded it blew a cloud that ate lightning.... but no measureable consumption followed.
I dont see the mechanism for that in some cars but not most.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
| I remember one that got sold tom coughlin - Tuesday, 31 July, 2012, at 9:20:35 am |
I am reminded that I once was at a "high line" auction (the one in PA) and a one or so year old 911 came across the block. It was being sold by the importer with a very brief description indicating that it was being sold with high oil consumption.
I can only guess that the first buyer had been unhappy so some sort of deal was made and the offending oil consuming vehicle was resold with fair warning at auction to somebody who would accept high oil consumption.
I can only guess that the first buyer had been unhappy so some sort of deal was made and the offending oil consuming vehicle was resold with fair warning at auction to somebody who would accept high oil consumption.
| Re: My 2012 Boxster burns oil which the dealer says is normal. gedwin - Tuesday, 31 July, 2012, at 9:36:07 am |
Jeff (Philly) - Tuesday, 31 July, 2012, at 3:36:45 pm |
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2012 03:39PM by Jeff (Philly).
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Laz - Tuesday, 31 July, 2012, at 12:59:01 pm |
Gary in SoFL - Tuesday, 31 July, 2012, at 1:35:01 pm |
| Super duper Roger987 - Tuesday, 31 July, 2012, at 1:51:51 pm |
Gary in SoFL - Tuesday, 31 July, 2012, at 2:13:44 pm |
It is...it is...with a slightly different "hue", but only at certain times of the day in very specific lighting conditions, and under just the right trees. The film, of course, must be fresh, special, and exacting...no digital stuff, and at least a $5,000 camera with very specific filters and lenses.
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."
| Re: Super duper Lawdevil & CURVN8R - Tuesday, 31 July, 2012, at 2:37:43 pm |
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