Finally word on the IMS (in Panorama)? Support for the DOF?

I got some back copies of Panorama from a neighbor and read this in the "Tech Q & A" section (sorry if I didn't re-write it perfectly, but I think I did, ALL CAPS ARE MINE FOR EMPHASIS):

"The (IMS) bearing itself has DUST seals. They were designed TO RUN IN AIR. The engine design, however, has this bearing submerged in motor oil at 220 degrees F. THE BEARING WAS NOT DESIGNED FOR THIS. Oil will eventually work its way past the internal seal, where is washes out the LIFETIME grease packed in the bearing. THAT STARTS THE COUNTDOWN TO FAILURE. I believe everyone one of them will fail. The higher the mileage, the older the car, the sooner ti will fail...."

For the past 4 years of driving my 2008, I felt a little fortunate to have the 3rd generation IMS bearing. But, any hope that I had a more fault-resistant IMS is gone. If this is all true, then the 3rd generation bearings may last longer, but ultimately will also fail. The downside being that an IMS fix (LN or Pedro's DOF) are much much more expensive for the 2006-08 engines.

1999 Arctic Sivler/black/black (sold)
2008s Silver/black/black - so predictable
2011 Outback
8/24/2011 first Grandson

... where did you get the idea that the DOF is more expensive for the later models?
It costs the same for any of the models from '97 through '08.
Also, LNE does not have an IMS fix for the later model years either.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Quote
Bobtesa
I got some back copies of Panorama from a neighbor and read this in the "Tech Q & A" section (sorry if I didn't re-write it perfectly, but I think I did, ALL CAPS ARE MINE FOR EMPHASIS):

"The (IMS) bearing itself has DUST seals. They were designed TO RUN IN AIR. The engine design, however, has this bearing submerged in motor oil at 220 degrees F. THE BEARING WAS NOT DESIGNED FOR THIS. Oil will eventually work its way past the internal seal, where is washes out the LIFETIME grease packed in the bearing. THAT STARTS THE COUNTDOWN TO FAILURE. I believe everyone one of them will fail. The higher the mileage, the older the car, the sooner ti will fail...."

For the past 4 years of driving my 2008, I felt a little fortunate to have the 3rd generation IMS bearing. But, any hope that I had a more fault-resistant IMS is gone. If this is all true, then the 3rd generation bearings may last longer, but ultimately will also fail. The downside being that an IMS fix (LN or Pedro's DOF) are much much more expensive for the 2006-08 engines.

The higher the mileage, the older the car, the sooner it will fail. Yeah, right.

The seal was designed to withstand 220F temps. If not it would come apart or fail in some way the 1st time the engine got up to operating temperature. (As I've mentioned before I've had my Boxster's coolant up to 226F more than once. (No doubt the oil was hotter yet. Hard to know how hot the bearing was.)

I plan to hit 230,000 or more to match you, if I live that long:

25,000 put on at 5,000 per year so,
about 200,000 to go
divided by 5,000 = 40 years

I'll be 105!

And motoring happily!


Bob

stories I bought a new 2008 Cayman S. I was not at all concerned with its IMSB. Too bad the car had a short (4 week) life for I was looking forward to driving it forever. Guess I'll have to make do with my 02 Boxster.

The track crowd is fairly confident in the "new" IMS design, and, so far, i have zero direct experience with any failures.

That's not to say they have not happened, but i know of no case with someone i know or that I can validate.

Remember we have to separate fact from fiction. A top-flight mechanic diagnosed Bruce's car dead due to IMS. A few weeks later i held the perfectly serviceable IMS bearing in my hand ( motor still dead, but not the IMS' fault).

Change oil.

Drive car.

Enjoy.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Now, on the cost of IMS replacement, you need to understand the difference between the two solutions. I explained the reason for the cost in some thread recently, i do hope you read it, but i'll repeat:

The issue with later motors is that the IMS is larger than the IMS cover plate opening, so removal and replacement of the bearing requires the case to be taken apart, a very costly process.

LN is a parts replacement, so for the LN bearing, yes, the newer cars are either mroe expensive or not replaceable - take your pick.

DoF however is different. It is a stream of oil that is aimed at the bearing. So long as the bearing is in good shape, it need not come out or be replaced. In that case the DoF is essentially the same for all years.

You might want to relax and trust pedro. If its this big an issue to you, i would suggest get a DoF ASAP. I see no circumstances under which allowing it to deteriorate helps the situation. We can only debate if its necessary. In all events its a benefit, IMNSHO.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I may have misunderstood. I thought that for the DOF to be effective, the IMS seal has to be removed (so the oil can get to the bearings) and it it that work that makes it more expensive for the 06-08. No?

.. so i cant say for sure.

Pedro has pointed out that its a great idea for the "hard to replace" years, so i have to assume he has a way.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

So while i understand and mostly agree with the quote, at some point others things are more likely to fail than the IMS bearing.

the Now, on the cost of IMS replacement, you need to understand the difference between the two solutions. I explained the reason for the cost in some thread recently, i do hope you read it, but i'll repeat:

The issue with later motors is that the IMS is larger than the IMS cover plate opening, so removal and replacement of the bearing requires the case to be taken apart, a very costly process.

LN is a parts replacement, so for the LN bearing, yes, the newer cars are either mroe expensive or not replaceable - take your pick.

DoF however is different. It is a stream of oil that is aimed at the bearing. So long as the bearing is in good shape, it need not come out or be replaced. In that case the DoF is essentially the same for all years.

You might want to relax and trust pedro. If this is so important to you, i would suggest get a DoF ASAP. I see no circumstances under which allowing it to deteriorate helps the situation. We can only debate if its necessary. In all events its a benefit, IMNSHO.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com