Hate to see anything eat into your "frunk" space, Marc!!! *NM*

My wife and I have enjoyed our 2005 Boxster since we bought it in May 08 (from a dealer where, I discovered later, it was traded in by a PPBB member). I have wanted a 911 for a long time (since my high school days, driving my Corvair Corsa convertible and wishing it was a Porsche), and think it's time to get one before I get too old to enjoy one. We would use it for around town driving and some longer trips. My budget could handle up to $60K. I have driven a 996 and a 997, and am also looking at 993's. I think the ride should be about equal to the Boxster, given similar tires (our Boxster has 18's). The front trunks are about the same (except for Carrera 4's), and the rear seat area of a 911 makes up for the loss of the rear trunk. The 911 is way faster, but perhaps not "quicker" in everyday driving. For those of you who have owned or driven both Boxsters and 911's, I would appreciate your thoughts. I love the 5 speed shifter on the Boxster, and recall that the 6 speeds on the 996 and 997 were similar, though the clutch on the 997 seemed stiffer than the one on our Boxster. I haven't driven a 993 yet. How does it shift compare with the Boxster? Also, if we get a 911 cabrio, it appears that the top on the 996 and 997 is very similar to the one on our Boxster (except full automatic). However, the top on a 993 cabrio looks less desirable, with a plastic window and no hard cover to fold under. I'm afraid if I bought a 911 coupe (or a targa), I would regret it.

I drove the Boxster with the top down earlier this week, on a 70 degree March day in North Dakota and, frankly, wondered why I am thinking about selling it. It's that much fun to drive, but you all know that already.

I apologize for the long post. Any responses or recommendations are appreciated. Thanks.

I've had two Boxsters--'98 base and a '02 S. In November 2009, I traded the S for a 2009 997S Cab. It is a much different car. There's a lot of space behind you. So, that took sometime to get used to. I really do prefer the "cozy" feel of the Boxster's interior, but the rear seat is a plus, but on long trips, you don't want to leave anything back there. One major pain with the Cab is the windscreen. One, it's manual and either takes up room to pack it with you, or takes away usable rear seat space with it in place. The first has been solved with the new 991. I never really wanted a 911, but when it came time to trade, my wife wanted one so that she could use the rear seat on trips--she's a pack rat. I've stuffed a few nieces and nephews back there, too, but in a couple of years that won't be possible. The 997, while a beast of a car, is very drivable. I use mine as a daily driver, long trips and one track event. I've felt the safety devices (PASM) kick in a couple of times, but the rear weight bias has been tamed to where I don't even think about it. Granted, I have an S (385 hp and around 320 tork, if not mistaken), so it's very quick. When you hit the go peddle, it really seems like you can feel the car almost squat in the rear and you do get the pushed-back-in-the-seat feeling. Again, while I never really wanted a 911, I am glad that I got one. The exhaust note is much better, the build I feel is much better, the extra gauges I feel are much more useful, and it is fast as stink. Now, I have not owned or driven a 996, so not sure how to compare a 997 to one, but I like the 2009 because there's no IMS and it has DFI.

Hope this helps. Let me know if it doesn't.

John, I think you're asking a lot of subjective questions and I'm sure that you'll get a quite a few opposing opinions here.

I too had wanted a 911 Targa for about 25 years. Then the Boxster came out and I thought "WOW a car more beautiful than a 911" . I've always loved roadsters and love the sunshine and love the feeling of the open air driving. But that was my feeling. Obviously yours would likely be different.

So that you're certain that YOU will like what ever decision you make, I'd recommend going out on a beautiful sunny day and test drive a 911 and your Boxster. I don't just mean around the block, but at least an hour or two and driving under the conditions that you normally would drive the car. That should tell you which car that YOU enjoy driving more.

Remember that in a used car, things like clutch stiffness can vary from car to car.

Take out a 996 and a newer Boxster S and I think you'd find there really isn't that much difference in how much "faster" one is over the other. You will find a difference in the handling if you decide to take it into the twisties.

Just my $0.02 worth.

My history with Porsches goes back to the 1970s. I had a 1971 911T Targa that I kept 25 years and 245,000 miles. In 1999 I sold it and bought a Boxster, and followed that with a 2006 Boxster. Loved them both, but lately felt the urge to go back to my roots. So six weeks ago I bought a 1995 Carrera 4 coupe with 98,000 miles on it. It passed the PPI, and I had all the fluids and plugs changed. No worries about the miles after my experience with the Targa.

It rides a bit softer than the Boxster, and tracks almost as well thanks to the 4 wheel drive. The build quality is better, given that it was manufactured before the robots took over completely, and that its sticker price was $72k. It's a lot more responsive in high gears thanks to the 3.6 liter engine. (I'm comparing it with the stock Boxster, not the S). It has a more solid feel, and feels a lot roomier thanks to the vestigial back seats. I loved my Boxsters, but now I feel like I'm driving a classic, the last of the air cooled Porsches. Not that it's a priority, but depreciation is not an issue with a 993.

Quote
Clarkaddison
…The build quality is better, given that it was manufactured before the robots took over completely…

when we visited the porsche factory, they proudly proclaimed that they only had one robot; the one that was used to put the glue onto the frame of the windshield and place the windshield in there.
i wasn't aware that robots have taken over completely at porsche. what parts of the assembly are no longer done by human hands?

--
MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige.
Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010

Quote
frogster

Quote
Clarkaddison
…The build quality is better, given that it was manufactured before the robots took over completely…

when we visited the porsche factory, they proudly proclaimed that they only had one robot; the one that was used to put the glue onto the frame of the windshield and place the windshield in there.
i wasn't aware that robots have taken over completely at porsche. what parts of the assembly are no longer done by human hands?

Maybe this will answer some questions about robots and humans involved in Porsche production.

[www.youtube.com]

were there any robots in that video? i watched it a while back and just skipped through it quickly now but i didn't see any robots.

--
MY 2000 S, Ocean Blue, Metropol Blue, Savanah Beige.
Bought June 2000 - Sold May 2010

Quote
frogster
were there any robots in that video? i watched it a while back and just skipped through it quickly now but i didn't see any robots.

I just added the link to show what happens at the factory.

I see the windshield installation and painting of the body done by automated process, which I think could be called robots.

There is a lot of automation used, but that is primarily for parts and equipment delivery at various stages. I think that system is a necessary to be able to build cars with so many different option combinations. The actual installation appears to be done by people using some pretty sophisticated machinery to ensure that things are installed in the proper location and torqued to spec.

I toured the Zuffenhausen Porsche factory in October 2010. Lots of the assembly work is done by robots; welding is almost entirely robotic. I'd say 33 to 40% of the body work is done by robots. Engines are assembled largely by hand.

I have a '98 993 as well as my '99 Boxster. You should take a 993 for a test drive. I suspect you'll either quickly mark it off the list or decide it's something you just have to have. It is a completely different experience from the Boxster. Compared to your 2005 it will feel very old, small, cramped, unsophisticated and noisy. Yet it's very nostalgic and classic. It has (to me) the best looks of any Porsche - especially the "S" model with those wide hips. There is a significant power difference between my 2 cars - maybe not so much compared to your 2005. The air cooled car experience is unique - even the smell in the car is unique. It's not for everyone. I love the looks of the car but I'm not sure even I could live with it as a daily driver. Only way to know if it should be on your short list is to take one out for a spin. Enjoy the ride.



See my other pastime at www.gothamcityracing.net

I have a 1997 993 twin turbo and I would guess that if you drove it you would find it quite dated. It is fast but the gear spacing is much wider than in a Boxster or 997. As John recommended, find one, drive it and then decide. I would not want to be driving my 993tt as my daily driver. If you enjoy your Boxster I'd say drive an "S" and see if that meets your needs. I had a '97 Boxster, sold it and got a 2000S and the difference in torque and acceleration is way more than what the 50HP difference is on paper. The 3.2 has much greater torque and the engine seems like it will rev forever. All in all, much greater performance. To me the only downside is the shifter. I loved my 5sp in the Box but really don't care for the shifting of the 6sp, its too precise and too much effort. Maybe I just have the odd "S". BTW the shifting in a 993 or an older 911 is loose and what I would call sloppy. That's not a critism - I like it that way and I've never missed a shift while on the track.

Quote
John in Bismarck
My wife and I have enjoyed our 2005 Boxster since we bought it in May 08 (from a dealer where, I discovered later, it was traded in by a PPBB member). I have wanted a 911 for a long time (since my high school days, driving my Corvair Corsa convertible and wishing it was a Porsche), and think it's time to get one before I get too old to enjoy one. We would use it for around town driving and some longer trips. My budget could handle up to $60K. I have driven a 996 and a 997, and am also looking at 993's. I think the ride should be about equal to the Boxster, given similar tires (our Boxster has 18's). The front trunks are about the same (except for Carrera 4's), and the rear seat area of a 911 makes up for the loss of the rear trunk. The 911 is way faster, but perhaps not "quicker" in everyday driving. For those of you who have owned or driven both Boxsters and 911's, I would appreciate your thoughts. I love the 5 speed shifter on the Boxster, and recall that the 6 speeds on the 996 and 997 were similar, though the clutch on the 997 seemed stiffer than the one on our Boxster. I haven't driven a 993 yet. How does it shift compare with the Boxster? Also, if we get a 911 cabrio, it appears that the top on the 996 and 997 is very similar to the one on our Boxster (except full automatic). However, the top on a 993 cabrio looks less desirable, with a plastic window and no hard cover to fold under. I'm afraid if I bought a 911 coupe (or a targa), I would regret it.

I drove the Boxster with the top down earlier this week, on a 70 degree March day in North Dakota and, frankly, wondered why I am thinking about selling it. It's that much fun to drive, but you all know that already.

I apologize for the long post. Any responses or recommendations are appreciated. Thanks.

differences...

First though you have to really drive both examples.

The cargo room of the Boxster vs. the 996 has the Boxster winning this comparo. The Boxster's front trunk is cavernous compared to my 996's frunk. Now my 996 is AWD (it is a Turbo) and the AWD hardware eats into the frunk space so a RWD only 996 might compare more favorably.

(The AWD hardware also results in a more complex fuel tank layout and a more complex -- hence more things to go wrong -- fuel tank system.)

The Boxster's 5-speed shifter is light speed quick while the 996's a bit slower. Noticeably slower. While of course the 996 has the power/torque and can accelerate like you wouldn't believe, the Boxster feels quicker in some respects because there's a much shorter pause/let up in the acceleration compared to the 996 when upshifting under hard acceleration conditions.

The rear seat area of the 996 does not make up for the Boxster's rear trunk unless your cargo needs involve small children or a pet. I like the fact that whatever I put in the rear trunk is hidden from view. Besides stuff is hard to get in and out the rear seats and I have knocked loose a seat belt cover from the passenger side when moving luggage in/out of the rear seat area. The inside of the rear window is getting foggy but it requires some effort to clean this.

Now the only thing the rear seat area offers that I find very very useful is when I'm on a long trip and get tired I can pull over somewhere safe and move the 996's seat back and recline it and stretch out and take a nap. This has been more than once a lifesaver. However, had I to restrict myself to the Boxster I'd simply (force myself) to drive less and be more aware of how tired I'm getting and arrange to stop for the night before I got too tired.

Visibility from the 996 is better. The car sits up higher and there's more glass. Because the 996 sits higher ease of getting into and out of the 996 is better. The cabin is a bit larger. I know when I have a passenger if he or she is not used to the car there's a bit of personal space issue upon first getting in the Boxster that I do not detect when using the 996. But since most of my time in either of my cars is spent by myself, what the heck.

The Boxster has 17" wheels/tires and the Turbo 18" wheels/tires and 18" is as large as I think I'd like to go. The 17" wheels/tires provide a bit better ride. The Boxster is more (not much but it is noticeable) softly sprung than the Turbo. The Boxster is a bit more maneuverable than the 996. Both cars have a small turning radius relatively speaking but the Boxster's a bit lighter on its tires and easier to hustle about mainly because its shifter is quicker to operate and I can just throw (safely throw) the Boxster about while I tend to be a bit more restrained when driving the 996.

I do not know about the regular (N/A) 996 models or 997 models but my 996's clutch is light, a bit lighter to operate than the Boxster's clutch. My 996 has a power assisted clutch though. If it didn't I do not think I'd be able to drive the car at least in any traffic.

I wouldn't trade my time/experience with my 996 for anything but overall I think the best bang for the Porsche buck is the base Boxster or Cayman though I could learn to like an S...

If I wouldn't take such a depreciation hit with my 996 I'd flip it for a new Boxster or better yet (for me since I do not use the top down mode of the Boxster or the moon/sun roof or whatever it is called feature of my 996 either) a new Cayman.

Whenever I can I avoid driving by my local Porsche dealer to lessen the chance of catching sight of the many new (and used) Boxsters and Caymans for sale...

Anyhow, both are very fine cars but have obvious differences. As I mentioned early on drive examples of both.

Oh, back in 08/09 I considered a 993 but the prices... and back in 08/09 the newest examples were going on 10 years old. Now they're what? 14 years old or older? Unless you really want the 993 experience I'd give the 993 a miss.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

It all depends whether you want the latest and greatest or are in a classic state of mind. For me, the real Porsches are air cooled (let the flames commence).

If you are willing to roll the dice on a high mileage example, prices in the $30-35k range for a 993 are possible. My 1995 had 98k miles on it, an average under 6k per year. There are 50k examples out there for $20k more that were garage queens, but Porsches are made to be driven.

A few years back, I found (in the Sacramento area) a very nice late model 993 (speed yellow) that while I can't remember all the details now pushed all the right buttons and based on what I could tell from my long distance research, perfect.

The price was at that time I thought high, but the car was very beautiful. I didn't go look at the car to confirm my belief the car's condition was 'perfect'. I may have not visited the car simply because I was subconsciously afraid that I might have fallen head over heals for the car

Thus I would change my advice to the OP to drive examples of all three model lines: Boxsters, 996s and 993s.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

[i243.photobucket.com]

two 'T' 's in 'Oklahoma'.

(If you need a hint, think about Audi's smallest convertible/coupe sports car)

a vowel... i.e the Apple product prefix but moved between the two err to the ahhhh middle

Speaking of Audi's most petite sports car, this review says newest release is anything but the [Okla homa interjection]

Audi TTS: High Design, Best at a Standstill



PS - Pedro will like color of review car and reviewer mentions (in video) Boxster. Just so we have appropriate car content



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2012 01:46PM by Burg Boxster. (view changes)

Quote
Burg Boxster
a vowel... i.e the Apple product prefix but moved between the two err to the ahhhh middle

Speaking of Audi's most petite sports car, this review says newest release is anything but the [Okla homa interjection]

Audi TTS: High Design, Best at a Standstill



PS - Pedro will like color of review car and reviewer mentions (in video) Boxster. Just so we have appropriate car content

It appears that the audio and video are out of sinc. as the video is already at an R8 while the reviewer is still fixated on the TT. Maybe he was bedazzled by the multiword version of Okla homa.

I love the hyphenation.

Especially during winter in the Grand Tetons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2012 01:58PM by Laz. (view changes)

You wrote:

"I have wanted a 911 for a long time (since my high school days, driving my Corvair Corsa convertible and wishing it was a Porsche), and think it's time to get one before I get too old to enjoy one."

In the final analysis, you've just stated the two best reasons for you to buy one:

1. you've wanted one since the days when a lifetime was an eternity; and

2. you've come to realize that, regrettably, it isnt.

Don't think twice. Find the one that steals your heart, and go for it.

Wow, thanks for all the great information and advice. Lots to think about. There aren't many Porsches to see in ND, much less drive, so almost all of my looking and driving is done when I'm traveling. In order to buy something else, I pretty much have to sell the Boxster first and then start looking in earnest. Selling a great car and then hoping you can find something you like better isn't much fun. I've done it before, and remember the feeling I had when my buyer drove away in our beautiful 1985 280SL (Euro model with 5 speed stick). It wasn't long before we got the Boxster, which is a much more exciting car to drive, though I do miss the sound and feel of the door closing on that old Benz. That car felt heavy and was pretty slow, but it was built like a tank and was a real classic drive. I'm hoping that a 911 will be a faster car with similar build quality.

I know it's hardly a reason to influence the purchase of a car, unless of course you like to drive your toy to the course, but it is a reason. I've seen 911 guys pull clubs out of the pass. seat, or have them propped in the rear seats whereas I open my rear trunk and there they are! Go for it-good luck!

Believe me the Boxster is one hella of good car, ubber enjoyable, practical and lots of fun. But then again there is always a 911 in our wishlist. It will depend entirely up to you because the 911 is one hella of a ride as well as the Boxster and it comes in many, many flavors and prices, under your budget I can think of a hella fast 996TT or if you want composure perhaps a 997 S and still the Boxster is one good ride because it brings tremendous balance of fun, handling and practicality.