Re: I have a question (and please do NOT tell Guenter)

Guenter, do NOT read this.











Really, don't read it.











Step away from the computer, Guenter.













Ok, now that Guenter's gone, here's my question:

Those of you who own 981S (or non-S) with PDK and thought you'd never buy a non-manual sports car.

How do you like the PDK? For those of you who track your PDK 981 - if you didn't track it, would you still want the PDK?


Guenter, I told you that you shouldn't have read this. But you did anyway, didn't you.

If you weren't 1000 miles away, I'd likely see you on my doorstep, all set to do an intervention.

I think only the person spending the $$ can best answer this one. Take one for a good drive on roads you enjoy driving. How do YOU like it?

There must be, 'cause the one I know wasn't supposed to read this post.

You're right, the guy spending the $$ has to drive it, to see.

But, a test drive won't replicate ownership for a year or two.

I'm wondering whether the owners stop paddling the PDK and end up driving them as automatics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/23/2015 10:40PM by Roger987. (view changes)

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Roger987
I'm wondering whether the owners stop paddling the PDK and end up driving them as automatics.

Every long term test of a PDK or other style of automatic with the ability to paddle shift or otherwise manually control the shift paddles has the driver just relying on the unit's automatic shifting after a while. Often it doesn't take that long either. At first the driver believes he's better at shifting but soon realizes the transmission shifts better and at the more opportune times.

Also, the unit shifts at times "instinct" has the driver afraid to shift. I read one review of a test of a PDK equipped Porsche, I think a Cayman, and the driver was on a track and the PDK shifted right in the middle of a turn, but the shifting was so seamless, the car was not upset in the least, and in fact it was clear the right time to shift. The writer said he looked over at his passenger just as the passenger looked over at him and both mouthed the word "wow".

I'm looking forward to sometime soon beginning to look for another Porsche and I can't wait to really test drive a PDK equipped example. Oh, and I want PCCB's too.

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MarcW

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Roger987
I'm wondering whether the owners stop paddling the PDK and end up driving them as automatics.

Every long term test of a PDK or other style of automatic with the ability to paddle shift or otherwise manually control the shift paddles has the driver just relying on the unit's automatic shifting after a while. Often it doesn't take that long either. At first the driver believes he's better at shifting but soon realizes the transmission shifts better and at the more opportune times.

Also, the unit shifts at times "instinct" has the driver afraid to shift. I read one review of a test of a PDK equipped Porsche, I think a Cayman, and the driver was on a track and the PDK shifted right in the middle of a turn, but the shifting was so seamless, the car was not upset in the least, and in fact it was clear the right time to shift. The writer said he looked over at his passenger just as the passenger looked over at him and both mouthed the word "wow".

I'm looking forward to sometime soon beginning to look for another Porsche and I can't wait to really test drive a PDK equipped example. Oh, and I want PCCB's too.

A few years back a local dealer invited us to the 991 intro at Mid-OH and we had a chance to drive a 991
S with PDK around the track. In Sport + mode it keeps the revs up and it down shifted in the middle of "madness"--turn 8 @Mid-OH--right a the apex as we were turning to go downhill. Wow was my reaction also.
Without a doubt, most drivers will be faster around the track with the PDK; the shifts are so fast the driver can concentrate on the line and braking points much more without having to worry about matching the shifts manually to engine speed.

Having said that, an acquaintance that recently picked up a 991 GT3 remarked that driving with the PDK at a DE almost got to the point of being "boring"--I'm thinking because the car is so good there is little drama and the PDK always is keeping the engine speeds were they need to be.
Along those lines I wonder if the same would happen with the PDK with a Boxster in normal driving where you drop it in D and you go about your business of steering and adding throttle/brake inputs--just like your typical sedan. Since most of our driving is on city streets, I'd be afraid that the PDK would just lend itself to the Boxster driving experience becoming just another lesser involved activity, as most automatic equipped cars seem to be these days.

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MikenOH
[.
Along those lines I wonder if the same would happen with the PDK with a Boxster in normal driving where you drop it in D and you go about your business of steering and adding throttle/brake inputs--just like your typical sedan. Since most of our driving is on city streets, I'd be afraid that the PDK would just lend itself to the Boxster driving experience becoming just another lesser involved activity, as most automatic equipped cars seem to be these days.

That's my concern - you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, Mike.

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Roger987

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MikenOH
[.
Along those lines I wonder if the same would happen with the PDK with a Boxster in normal driving where you drop it in D and you go about your business of steering and adding throttle/brake inputs--just like your typical sedan. Since most of our driving is on city streets, I'd be afraid that the PDK would just lend itself to the Boxster driving experience becoming just another lesser involved activity, as most automatic equipped cars seem to be these days.

That's my concern - you've pretty much hit the nail on the head, Mike.

Any chance you could drive a 981 with PDK for a couple of days on your normal routes? I ask since I don't think a 15-20 minute drive would get the job done on predicting how happy you might be with it long term. Maybe a local dealer could be accomidating enough to make that happen.

We are sort of in the same boat with our E90 328i with a manual. Even though the gear box has a honda-like shift linkage, the car is still fun to run through the gears after 7 years.
There seem to be precious few sporting sedans these days that offer a manual tranny; if we ever got out of this car I have no idea what the replacement we might get, but recently I saw a new WRX on the road that really caught my eye and it still comes in a manual.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 08:48PM by MikenOH. (view changes)

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MikenOH
Along those lines I wonder if the same would happen with the PDK with a Boxster in normal driving where you drop it in D and you go about your business of steering and adding throttle/brake inputs--just like your typical sedan. Since most of our driving is on city streets, I'd be afraid that the PDK would just lend itself to the Boxster driving experience becoming just another lesser involved activity, as most automatic equipped cars seem to be these days.

That's exactly how I feel. With PDK, I'd be riding (as opposed to driving) around in a sharp looking car. A nice car to get from here to there. Not one where the best part is the enjoyment you have between here and there.

I've had my 2013BB w/PDK now for over 2 years. I came from 30 straight years of manuals, with my previous 4 cars being 2 Miatas and 2 other Boxsters. I still love the PDK. I still use it in manual mode when I want more control or I'm playing with the car. When I commute in traffic, I am generally in auto,, and about 20% of the time in manual. Whatever fits the situation I am in.

I love manuals, and would own one again, but I love PDK just as much.

I"d have to agree. While I don't track my cars, I've taken every Porsche to PCA's HPDE courses. The PDK on the track is amazing. It knows you want to be agressive, and boy, does it happily comply. Even in auto mode on the streets, you need to do some agressive moves, it snaps to attention and will stay in a more agressive mode for a minute or so before falling back into drone mode. Now, I do admit, as time has passed (2009 purchase), I use auto mode 95% of the time. Nice thing, though, is the seemlessness going from auto to manual. If I want to pass on a two-lane road, I give the levers two-clicks down and in a blink of an eye, the engine is complying with my every command. If you space out and don't touch the paddles after a minute, the car does pop back into auto mode on its own. Me, I like PDK, but I was never an expert in the manual tranny game. So, it makes driving a much smooter process, and Like Harvey says, you can concentrate more on truning and braking.

here in FL. We are having lunch together tomorrow.

I have been driving a manual tranny for about >< 55 years and have never owned a automatic tranny. That is, until now. I have been tracking cars for the past four years and purchased a Cayman S with PDK last fall. I wanted to take the heal and toe (was actually smother with each track event), out the equation to concentrate more on breaking and turning in points.

My first trip to the track with the CS (being stock) and three weeks old, I was able to knock off 9 seconds from the best 997 time. I attribute the time difference to PDK - 4 seconds, CS sport suspension & PTV - 2 seconds and mid-engine – 3 seconds.

Yes, if I was not tracking the CS, I would have purchased a 911 with a manual tranny. But, I quess you knew the answer.

... braking rather than breaking
Happy Porsche'ing
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

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Pedro (Weston, FL)
... braking rather than breaking
Happy Porsche'ing
Pedro

Sounds cheaper to me.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 05:07PM by Harvey in FL. (view changes)

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/24/2015 05:08PM by Harvey in FL. (view changes)

While I appreciate that they were not Porsches, I found that I used the manual option a lot for the first several weeks, then never again. Almost literally never.


Was it laziness? Possibly.

Was it the fact that 90% of my driving is in the NY/Stamford area and there are fewer possibillities of sporting driving? Maybe.

Or was it the fact that I have the Boxster for when I want to have fun? Also possible.

That said, I know very few people who use the manual function on their manumatic gearboxes. I am interested to hear how those on this board respond.

I have a manumatic in my '11 Subaru Legacy 3.6R, and I use the manual mode every now and then. Sometimes I go on long periods when that is all I use, then I go back to grandpa slow mode. I wish it was a dual clutch system versus the manually shifted automatic, the shifts are too soft for my taste. I'm sure the pdk would be fun, but I do prefer my manual in my Boxster.

Steve
Guards Red 1999
I'm not a race car driver, but I play one in 2nd and 3rd gear

I have had my 981 for about 2 1/2 years now and still think the PDK was the right choice. I probably use it in manual mode 60% of the time, but I live in the NC mountains where there are many driving opportunities Generally, I only put it in Auto when I hit the expressway to Atlanta at the foot of the mountains. The only exception is occasionally I use sport+ when I on a well known & deserted stretch of mountain road when I really want to go aggressively. You can't go wrong with either one.

You know, who really cares. If you like to shift a manual gearbox…..then shift!!! If you don't……then don't and get a PDK or whatever. 97% of us don't track our cars and the shifting experience should be of a personal nature. I, frankly, could not imagine not being able to shift through 5, 6, or 7 gears…..precisely when I want to…..always!! I don't race, track, do driver's training or whatever…..I simply like to drive. And bless all Porsches!!

After 11 years with three manual Porsches (2001 986, 2003 996, 2008 987), I bought a 997.2 C2 CPO PDK a couple years ago. I read a lot about the PDK and drove a few cars before making the leap. I was pretty geeked out (!) about the technology which is mostly why I bought it, for the same reason I changed Porsches previously, to have a different driving experience. The car I bought did not have Sport Chrono and all it did was quickly shift up to the highest gear possible. 50 MPH in 7th at barely over an idle is boring and not very responsive. Based on comments from other boards, I bought the Sport/Sport Plus console switch (about $85) and software upgrade (about $1,300 dealer installed). That completely transformed the car. Driving in Sport mode, it shifts into the same gears as I did when I had a manual and it holds gears higher into the power band when I use a heavier foot on the accelerator pedal. Sport Plus is insane and only really usable on the track.

If you test drive a PDK, it must have the Sport Chrono option (or the aftermarket Sport switch/software upgrade) and you want to select the Sport mode to understand how great the PDK shifts on a winding back road. I have gotten used to the somewhat lackluster behavior of the PDK with Sport mode off. It is perfectly behaved in around town, stop and go driving. That's when I just appreciate the cool technology in that transmission as I drive.