Re: Porscheology question

Looking at the prospective 718 got me thinking about 356s, original 911s, 912s, and the bloating of 911s over the years (and maybe Boxsters).

I understand that the original 718 was a stripped down sort of sports car compared to what we see today, but what about the 356? I was a kid when they were around, but looking at them now, they seem much more to be a lightweight sports car like other European sports cars of the time -- MGs, Triumphs, etc. -- than the heavier supercars. I gather that there was a lot of hue and cry when the 911 was introduced because it was bigger and heavier at the time, seen as sort of a sop to us crass Americans and our obsession with displacement and horsepower, but wasn't even that car a much lighter, more basic sportscar than we now see with the 991s and 981s?

I'm not trying to write Porsche's ad copy for them, but the reaction on this board to the 718 is really striking. I haven't seen a single snippy comment that this is what we used to call the Baby Boxster or condescending comment about weakening the brand, or dismissive comments about it being "entry level." It seems that among people who really like Porsches (as represented by those on this board) there is a sizeable group that hankers for a lighter basic sports car with the quality that we associate with this brand. I'm wondering whether this is not the group that was originally attracted to Porsche in the 1950s and early 1960s when it may have been less of a status symbol than it is now.

2001 Base, purchased in 2004, replaced engine at 130K+, RIP 2017

I guess it all really boils down to just how much Porsche decontents this rumoured 718.

I'd like to see a show of hands of all the people on this board who have ordered or purchased off the lot, a Boxster / Cayman with no options. That would keep down the price and also some of the weight.

How many people bought or ordered a Boxster Spyder without AC and stereo to keep from adding back some of the weight Porsche worked so hard to shave off the car? How many people in the southern states would purchase a 718 without AC? (Boxster Spyder came standard without AC and stereo, but you could order either one or both at no additional cost)

I can see a shortened car, thinner side glass, but plastic rear window, really? I'd have no problem with a manual roof that was easy to pull up. Had it on my Karmann Ghia and it was easy to use. Problem is, will these changes make the car feel cheaper - some rattles, vibrations more body flexing, choppier ride?

This car, because of its price would be geared to a younger crowd, who could then more easily afford a Porsche. Problem is that this crowd want everything to be done for them. They need a smart phone app. for everything. They want all the electronic stuff to be able to check their texts and emails while on the go. They'll want the infotainment system and PDK.

I know the 356's and early 911's where lighter with relatively few comforts compared to today's cars, but so where most other cars. They were fabulous cars, but times have changed. People who remember the "good old days" are the same ones who remember walking to school uphill 3 miles in a snowstorm though 3 feet of snow. And after school, it was back home uphill 3 miles in a snowstorm through 3 feet of snow and it was fun back then.

It's going to be tricky balancing act as to what Porsche includes with this rumoured car.

The two main factors at play here are government regulation and changes in society, as you point out. Think of how ugly the MGB became when it had to be fitted with huge rubber bumpers. As for changes in society, it really strikes me as odd that there is a waiting list for the Macan. We have people in Florida and California that can't wait to get their hands on a SUV that will never see anything but dry pavement.

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SteveJ (2010 987 base, manual trans)
The two main factors at play here are government regulation and changes in society, as you point out. Think of how ugly the MGB became when it had to be fitted with huge rubber bumpers. As for changes in society, it really strikes me as odd that there is a waiting list for the Macan. We have people in Florida and California that can't wait to get their hands on a SUV that will never see anything but dry pavement.

The Macan is a whole other story. SUV's are the "in" vehicle. Few are ever driven off road anywhere (including here in Canada). Frequently, people have commented on just how much storage space there is in our BMW wagon - more than there is in the average SUV. Wagons just aren't "in", even if they are more aerodynamic, fuel efficient and have more cargo area. And, there are quite a few 4 wheel drive wagons available on the market - Audi, BMW and Subaru, just to mention a few.

I realize that the driving force behind designing a smaller, lighter, smaller engined sports car is the government regulations and huge coming penalties per car for companies that don't meet them. Unfortunately, Porsche averages can't be lumped in with all the more economical cars that VW makes, even though Porsche is owned by VW.

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Guenter in Ontario

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SteveJ (2010 987 base, manual trans)
The two main factors at play here are government regulation and changes in society, as you point out. Think of how ugly the MGB became when it had to be fitted with huge rubber bumpers. As for changes in society, it really strikes me as odd that there is a waiting list for the Macan. We have people in Florida and California that can't wait to get their hands on a SUV that will never see anything but dry pavement.

The Macan is a whole other story. SUV's are the "in" vehicle. Few are ever driven off road anywhere (including here in Canada). Frequently, people have commented on just how much storage space there is in our BMW wagon - more than there is in the average SUV. Wagons just aren't "in", even if they are more aerodynamic, fuel efficient and have more cargo area. And, there are quite a few 4 wheel drive wagons available on the market - Audi, BMW and Subaru, just to mention a few.

I realize that the driving force behind designing a smaller, lighter, smaller engined sports car is the government regulations and huge coming penalties per car for companies that don't meet them. Unfortunately, Porsche averages can't be lumped in with all the more economical cars that VW makes, even though Porsche is owned by VW.

I read. The EU is seeking to protect automobile companies in countries other than Germany.

will also be used by VW to produce their own version I suspect.

Speaking of Europe, just got back from a 2 week trip and was struck by how few Porsches I saw in in 6 countries (including a day in Germany). By far the largest number were Cayannes (including Taxis), one Pana GTS, 3 Turbos, 2 911s. No Boxsters, no Caymans. Only one is 8 hours in Berlin and it was a Yellow Turbo being driven vigorously! Saw more Corvettes (3) and Vipers (1) than I did Boxsters of any sort. BMWs by the thousands, ditto Mercedes.

Driver in Denmark remarked they have a 180% of purchase price "sales tax" the country imposes (actually, looking it up this is multiple taxes that add up to the 180% figure but the 180% story is the one widely used). Heard this same story from another source the next day. Going to ban cars from the center city of Copenhagen in 2017. Gas at $5.93 for regular.

Count your blessings.

We all like our creature comforts, and saftey, too. Look at the 356 and see how spartan it is compared with today's modern car, which have relatively no steel in them like in yester year. I love the look of old cars until you crawl inside one and think of what a death trap they are/were. Heck, they didn't even have any headrests, let alone airbags, ABS, etc. Then, toss in 12-speaker stereos, electric seats, sound insulation, etc., and more room (longer and wider cars) because we are getting bigger as humans.