Where do you get the 5W-50 weight? I have not been able to find that anywhere.. *NM*

Last 5K miles have been with Mobil 1 0w-40 oil. This fill is with Mobil 1 5w-50 oil. Both cars now have this oil. (I picked up 18 quarts of this oil -- three 6 quart cases -- for $142.11 the other day at local Mobil oil distributor.)

I can report the Boxster appeared to suffer not one whit from having 0w-40 oil in the engine. Had I not known what oil was in the engine I could not have deduced the oil was 0w-40 oil from the way the engine sounded at any time nor from the oil consumption (less than 1 quart in 5K miles).

Next up I opted to have the 5-speed manual transmission fluid changed. 3 liters at $46/each. 0.3 hours of labor. What a bargain! Tip fluid/filter change a bit more money. There's more fluid and it costs more (and often is not stocked but has to be ordered) and the filter and gasket add cost too.

Front end was shaking a bit. Tire imbalance was my guess. I was right. But tech told me there was a huge mismash of weights on the wheels. He removed them all and the wheels needed very little weight to rebalance. I spoke with the service manager and recalled when I brought the car in shortly after the dealer opened (in 2008 and the car had 203K miles then) the dealership service department was short handed and the tires were mounted and balanced by a tech at a nearby dealership (owned by the same corporation that owns the Porsche dealership). The non-Porsche tech that did the tire mounting/balancing is no longer there. Thank goodness.

Regarding tire balance: The Porsche tech told me that while the front tires often require little in the way of weight to balance the rear tires -- being wider -- often require more weight, sometimes way more weight.

Also, as the tires wear this can affect the balance as the wear removes a portion of the tire that caused the inital balance to be off to begin with.

Lets see what else... Oh yeah, the car was in the air and I looked its underneath over. The driver's side camshaft cover is leaking a bit of oil. The engine is not wet with oil, and no oil is dripping or hitting the ground and I felt the top of the undertrays and they do not have any oil so I decided to let the thing leak a while longer. Forever in fact unless the camshaft cover has to come off for any reason like to replace the VarioCam solenoid/actutator or the leak gets worse. (Not likely to replace these unless I have to.)

RMS is still oil tight. That RMS is the replacement RMS and has been in the engine now since mid 2002 and has now collected over 220K miles. Who says there's a RMS problem? (Just kidding!)

Techs tell me that the suspension is almost certainly 'due' to be renewed. The front end shocks have lost some ability to control/dampen rebound. The techs tell me absent any shock leaks or obvious signs of bushing deterioration how the car feels on bumpy roads, going around bumpy corners, is the key. If the car skitters about on the bumps during a turn... it is time. I haven't been pushing the car real hard but the car does dance about a bit when I encounter bumpy road surfaces. But I'm not going to have the suspension done for awhile, like for as long as I can put it off.

Steering feels tight yet though. No front wheel play.

What coolant hoses I could see looked ok. Felt ok. A bit dry/rough but not soft at all.

Brakes have little wear. Must have got a good set of pads this last time because the brakes are wearing like they did when I first got the car. Like they were made out of iron.

Gave the radiator ducts a look/see. Easy when they're at eye level. Filthy. Tech used custom air nozzle to blow the trash out but I decided to look into having the bumper cover removed and the things cleaned out. Service manager quoted me an hour's labor to R&R the front bumper and really give these ducts a cleaning which includes loosening the condensors and swinging them out of the way to expose the radiators.

The front water drains are a bit trashy (though not enough to prevent water from flowing) and these will be cleaned too.

Rear tires are near the wear bars. I'll wait to replace these when the rains comes. The tire money goes to the Turbo... It needs new rear tires (managed to get over 20K miles out of the tires (Bridgestone) on the car though!) prior to a road trip coming up real soon.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

Marc tell us all again how many miles you have on the car now and with the same clutch. No IMS replacement ?

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MarcW
n/t

I for one appreciate your updates and level of detail. Thanks Marc.

No I'm serious. I want to pass that info to someone who's sceptical. Love your posts.

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george g
No I'm serious. I want to pass that info to someone who's sceptical. Love your posts.

Like jwdbox said, I enjoy reading Marc's posts. Personally, I think it's great to see a Boxster driven close to 250K relatively trouble free miles. These cars really do last if you drive them frequently the way Marc obviously does.

Guenter
2014 Boxster S
GT Silver, 6 Speed Manual, Bi-Xenons, Sports Suspension (lowers car 20mm), Porsche Sports Exhaust, Porsche Torque Vectoring, Auto Climate control, heated and vented seats, 20" Carrera S Wheels, Pedro's TechNoWind, Sport Design steering wheel, Roll bars in GT Silver
[www.cyberdesignconcepts.com]

Don't worry Marc. George G organizes the Boxster Brunch up at Alice's Restaurant on Skyline, a good friend, long time PCA member and Boxster lover. We all love your stories of longevity!

I have gone from 15k to 7.5k and now to a 5k oil change frequency. My Box is hitting 105k next month, so I'm trying to determine the best viscosity. This will be a pre-winter change would you still consider 15-50, or stick with 0-40?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2011 11:45PM by BoxsterBob - San Carlos. (view changes)

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BoxsterBob - San Carlos
Don't worry Marc. George G organizes the Boxster Brunch up at Alice's Restaurant on Skyline, a good friend, long time PCA member and Boxster lover. We all love your stories of longevity!

I have gone from 15k to 7.5k and now to a 5k oil change frequency. My Box is hitting 105k next month, so I'm trying to determine the best viscosity. This will be a pre-winter change would you still consider 15-50, or stick with 0-40?

Alice's Restaurant I remembered. He's always invited me to the get togethers though for various reasons -- none having to do with George, the location, or nice people that attend -- I've never made it to one.

If your car's engine has made it to 105K miles with no signs of problems and especially no signs of any problems related to oil you run in the engine I'd stick with 0w-40 oil.

My Boxster just covered another 5K miles with Mobil 1 0w-40 oil and if I hadn't known 0w-40 oil was in the engine I couldn't have deduced it by the way the engine behaved. There was no more or less noise at cold warm or hot start nor at any other times. Oil consumption didn't go up (or down). Even the number of smoking upon cold start incidents didn't change any significant amount and they appeared when I suspected they would based on the fact I noted the previous use was a short trip.

I could see running this oil all the time in the Boxster but since I run Mobil 1 5w-50 oil in the Turbo and supply the oil to the dealer when it needs changing I'm moving the Boxster to 5W-50 oil too.

However, based on my monitoring the Turbo's coolant temp I have noticed it runs cooler than the Boxster, all other things equal, and Mobil 1 5w-50 might be 'overkill' for the Turbo. But this oil is an approved oil, and since I want to run this oil in the Boxster's engine because at least the Boxster engine runs hotter than the Turbo engine it is the oil I'm settled on for both engines to simplify my oil stocking.

For example: The Boxster's coolant temp reached 226F a couple of weeks ago when I was pushing the Boxster hard. In all my driving and the thousands of miles of data logging I've done with the Turbo I don't think the Turbo's coolant temp has broken 200F. (IIRC though the Turbo's radiator fans run at slow speed all the time even when the A/C is off. (Now to complicate matters the A/C is never truely off... Believe it or not the A/C has a line, or a set of lines, that is routed to the fuel cooler. Yep. The Turbo air-conditions its fuel.)

At the risk of starting another oil war I could never recommend anyone use 15w-50 or even 10w-40 oil. They are not approved oils and I suspect for a good reason.

Ignoring an unapproved oil's makeup (I've spent way too much time searching for and reading the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for a number of oils, approved and unapproved and most of the unapproved oils that by some person or another being touted as the greatest oil since I don't know when and most of these oils I find have a mineral oil in their list of ingredients) as I mentioned before in another post in another thread (some time back) I had a chance to view the hardware under the camshaft cover when my Boxster was in for that VarioCam solenoid/actuator work and the camshaft cover was off.

With the cover off I could see the cams and well everything under the cover and I realized (with a bit of surprise) that the camshaft lobes do *not* have an oil hole at their base (like for instance the single camshaft that was in the engine of my Datsun 510).

In the case of the Boxster engine (and I suspect this is true of the other Porsche engines but I haven't seen all of their camshafts) this means the only oiling that critical lobe/lifter face receives comes from splash lubrication with the oil for this splashing lubrication coming from the oil that comes out from around the lifter body. Since the valves are horizontal only the oil that comes from around the body that is above the lobe/lifter face can supply any oil. The oil that comes from around the lifter body that is below the lobe/face of course just falls down.

But there's more. Under each intake lobe/lifter there's a cast alum. finger that projects out as high as the lobe is and the finger is a bit wider than the lobe. These fingers I'm told are there to catch the oil that comes from around the intake lifter body and the oil the intake lobe slings off and then drop/drip this oil down onto the exhaust cam lobes/lifters to augument the oil that flows from around the exhaust lifter bodies with of course just like at the intake lobe one half of this oil being lost because it is below the lifter face/lobe interface.

Simple And simply ingenious.

But it does mean that the oil's viscosity is important so the expected volume of oil that comes from around valve lifter bodies and is caught by the cast alum. fingers and then directed to the exhaust lobe/lifter interface supplies the necessary volume of oil to ensure sufficient lubrication of these critical interfaces always.

With a heavier W number oil in the engine the volume of oil available for this splash lubrication might be less than it would be otherwise or the behavior of the oil might be different to lessen the amount of oil that is caught by the fingers or how this oil falls to the exhaust cam lobe/lifters below.

Now obviously since a goodly number of car owners do run 15w or 10w oil and have reported no problems the affect is not large.

But after learning that the lobes have no oil holes and how the exhaust cam lobes' lubrication is enhanced by those cast alum. fingers catching oil and dripping it down on the exhaust cam lobe/lifters it does suggest to me there's at least the risk of some diminished lubrication of the critical lobe and lifter face interface from running a 10w-40 or 15w-50 oil (again ignoring that the ingredients of these oils may not be all that impressive) and since I want maximum longevity from my engines I want to avoid even a hint of diminished lubrication which is why I stick to oils that are not only approved but have the SAE 0w-40 or 5w-50 classification all of the approved oils have.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

... 10W40 High Mileage or 15W15.
Happy Boxstering,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

a very expensive repair job. The actuator alone cost over $800 and then there were 9 hours of labor.

The Variocam actuator is a hydraulic valve body which relies upon oil for its critical operation.

Probably a coincidence it happened a while after I used 10w-40 oil a couple of oil change interval times and not before.

But while some tout 10w-40 (or even 15w-50) oil as the savior of these engines I think I'll keep it out of my engines from now on.

Furthermore, I simply do not understand how you can advise people away from the correct and approved oil viscosities with such cavalier attitude. You know that if an oil is not on the approved list it may not be there because the oil maker knows it is not suitable for use in the engine and didn't even submit the oil for approval?

Also, I can't help but note that not *one* 10w-40 or 15w-50 oil is on the list.

Not a one.

You'd think if there was any reason at all, any climate, environmental or usage reasons that could call for a 10w-40 or a 15w-50 oil that Porsche would have put at least one on the list. I mean if these 10w-40 and 15w-50 oils are all so wonderful oils what's holding Porsche back for putting at least one on the list? And many areas of the world do not have any emissions or concerns about fuel economy which is often stated reasons for Porsche avoiding the 10w-40 and 15w-50 oils and also oils with high levels of the magic metal du jour, zinc.

Yet you recommend non-approved oils and worse oils that don't even have the SAE viscosities that the approved oils have.

Words fail me.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

I'll totally dismiss the variocm failure as co-incidence.

But we need to recognize that thinner oils have advantages - they flow faster and at lower temps, protecting sooner and when cold.

So do thicker oils - protecting when hot, at hgih pressure and rpm.

Oils with lots of zddp protect when hydrodynamic lubrication fails. but they ruin cats if they are burned at hgih rates.

Oils with wide viscosity ranges protect over ALL those temperatures - fantastic. Uh, except they require formulation method that shear down under constant hard use, losing their higher number, and contributing to sludge products.

So, anyone who says "x is perfect" r "y is bad" is wrong. Yes, wrong.

You have to understand how you use the car, and pick an oidl, weight, additive mix, etc that is the best trade off for you.

if you live nowhere particularly hot nor cold, and don't race or track aggressively, etc. - use any 5w40 synthetic that meet's Porsche's standards. Change them regularly - 7500 or 12 months.

I use thicker oils to protect at the track, and more zddp because my car burns 1/4 qt every 7500 - essentially none.

Because i run thicker oil, i run the car easy when its cold. Cold to a car is oil < 100F. F-ing cold is oil under 40F

Grant

...and not respond the way I feel.
Have you ever sat down with a VP Product Development and 2 Chemists who specialize and manufacture automotive oil and discussed these things with them?
I have. At last year's SEMA show. I got the chance to pick their brain and ask all the questions I wanted and received very derailed answers.
That's what gives me the audacity to make recommendations to my friends about which oil I believe they should use.
I don't agree with all of your (blind) only-Porsche-approved recommendations some of which I personally find ludicrous but I don't publicly chastise you for making them; I just keep my mouth shut.
Happy Porscheing,
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

my Boxster manual says to coat my wheels with Vaseline. Should I fail to do that will it void my warranty?

If you don't coat your wheels with vaseline in cold weather, you'll end up with chapped wheels. Not sure if Porsche would cover that under warranty.

the cars we talk about here are Porsches.

When I was shopping for my 1st or subsequent Porsche if I thought I was considering a car that that required me to sit down with 2 chemists at a trade show, then buttonhole a tire expert, a brake expert, and fuel expert, a suspension expert, a mechanical engineer, a bearing engineer, and so on to assemble a hodge-podge of recommendations then I would have avoided the car.

Even if I had found out if this were necessary after I bought the car I'd unloaded it in an instant and bought another brand that didn't need all this extra work.

Fortunately, and frankly as I expected, this extra effort was not necessary, then, and in spite of all the gloom and doom not necessary now. My Porsches have proved to be exceptional cars the best cars I've ever owned and the first brand of cars in all my time that I have owned 3 of.

My Porsche only recommendations (I note recommend one follow a more frequent oil/filter and other vital fluids service schedules) are in your words ludicrous I guess simply because they are in disagreement with among others your oil recommendation.

It doesn't help that not even the experts can agree: In one place it is a turbo diesel oil. Other places the fave oil is a 10w-40 or 15w-50 oil. And almost every board has its advocate who believes the only true way to oil nirvana can only be found by mixing/blending various oils. Yet another indy expert believe it not recommends Mobil 1 0w-40 oil. Apparently not every Porsche oil expert runs into the same two chemists.

So, by one recommending a specific non Porsche approved oil he not only believes Porsche knows nothing about these engines and their oiling needs but discounts the advise and recommendation of the other oils being recommended with equal fervor.

My last word on this is this: When I rejected this turbo diesel oil recommendation publicly one poster asked me why didn't I listen to the oil experts? My reply is I do. I listen to Porsche.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

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MarcW
When I was shopping for my 1st or subsequent Porsche if I thought I was considering a car that that required me to sit down with 2 chemists at a trade show, then buttonhole a tire expert, a brake expert, and fuel expert, a suspension expert, a mechanical engineer, a bearing engineer, and so on to assemble a hodge-podge of recommendations then I would have avoided the car.

But Marc, you yourself don't follow Porsche's recommended oil change interval. If you don't trust them on the oil change interval, why trust them on anything else? It seems to me that you can't really trust anything on these cars. The IMS could give out and Porsche won't talk about it. The oil gauge shows overfull when it's not really overfull. My dealer didn't know how to clean cosmoline off my wheels, which I learned how to clean myself in this forum, and also botched the 15K service on my old Boxster by pouring about an extra quart of oil on top of the engine because they were unaware that the filler tube was cracked.

Indeed, had I known then what I know now, I probably wouldn't have bought the car. But I did, and I like the car, heck it's a great car, I just spent a bunch of $$$ upgrading the stereo and I plan to keep the car as long as I can keep some kind of warranty on it. But trust Porsche or the dealer? NO WAY! So, I guess I'll stick with the 2 chemists at a trade show, a tire expert, a brake expert, and fuel expert, a suspension expert, a mechanical engineer, and a bearing engineer.

chemists, tire experts, brake experts, fuel experts, suspension experts, mechanical engineers, and bearing engineers.

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?

The engine is original, along with the IMS bearing, coils, injectors, clutch, transmission and a whole bunch of other stuff.

RMS replaced (under warranty) around 25K miles.

The only thing that has been done to the engine internally is the passenger side VarioCam solenoid and actuator were replaced around the 1st of the year.

Rest of the running gear is original except the CV boots which were replaced a month or so back and the left rear wheel bearing replaced at 90K to 100K miles.

Now back to work!

Sincerely,

MarcW.

for 245k miles. Good research? yes. Ideal oil - by definition not (its always different)

QED

Grant

Having unnecessary weights has happened with one of my cars. To me it represents laziness/misplaced "efficiency" on the mechanic's part. Why take a few extra seconds to pull the already present weights off?

Concerning your tire wear comment, I am reminded of "sensitive dependence on initial conditions." (Chaos theory fascinates me.)

Keep the updates coming.....I love following the life of your car!!! One way or another, I have been following it on this Board and the old one for quite some time now. I want to see it make 300k!

I also enjoy your detailed posts Marc, I always learn something!

dghii
2000 Boxster S 6speed 112k miles

Thanks Marc for posting your updates and specs on your 986. It astounds me the durability of these cars over the long term. Hopefully, we can get similar mileage, and reliability out of our MY01.
regards

"Bart, with $10,000, we'd be millionaires! We could buy all kinds of useful things like...love!"

a few weeks ago, I bought some oil. The only 'downside' is one has to buy the oil in case amounts, 6 quarts to a case. So to do an oil change for one car requires I buy 2 cases, 12 quarts.

I wouldn't be me if I didn't point out that the only 5w-50 oil approved is Mobil 1. Castrol Syntec 5w-50 oil used to be approved but its approval certificate expired and was not renewed.

Maybe Castrol just didn't want to bother but I note other Castrol oils, 5w-40 oils, are approved.

Thus the very real possibility is Castrol changed the ingredients in the 5w-50 oil or refused to change them to conform to what Porsche will accept and the oil is no longer suitable for use in Porsches.

BTW, I just gave away several unopened quart bottles of Castrol Syntec 5w-50 oil.

Sincerely,

MarcW.