Is it a soft alloy plating on the thread? *NM*

It's not rocket science, but I still have a couple questions.

Yesterday, due to an unfortunate work situation, I have a bunch of time on my hands for the next while. I've got plugs and tubes ordered during the summer and decided to install them today with my new free time....

Pedro's tip with the boat plug worked well, after i read the whole thing and cut the lip off of the plug (I was able just to spin it to break the seal, no leverage needed.)

1. My 3/8" torque wrench doesn't fit well, and maxes out at 29Nm. Fine. I can just do a little wiggle more than the click to get to 30Nm. However, when I go to tighten it in the one spot where I can actually swing the ratchet, it seems to be turning a bit more than I'd like. I wonder is it because I have the extension and the wrench in on an angle to get any type of torque on the end, and the spring isn't clicking. I put a 19mm socket on the end and try the wheel lug on the otherside, and 29Nm appears to be about 3 finger strength.

2. Bentley doesn't mention antiseize, Neither does Pedros Garage. Pelican Parts website says no antiseize. I have always put a tiny dab of antiseize on the threaded part of the plug. Could this be an issue?

3. I took my nice 3/8" composite ratchet and checked snugness. Seems fine to me.

I am thinking that 1/4-1/3rd turn after hand tight should be good for the plug, and continue with the antiseize.?

Thx,
Peter - currently unemployed......

PS. To make matters worse, there is a inner driver side ripped CV boot staring me in the face...... argh.....

Quote
Petee_C
It's not rocket science, but I still have a couple questions.

Yesterday, due to an unfortunate work situation, I have a bunch of time on my hands for the next while. I've got plugs and tubes ordered during the summer and decided to install them today with my new free time....

Pedro's tip with the boat plug worked well, after i read the whole thing and cut the lip off of the plug (I was able just to spin it to break the seal, no leverage needed.)

1. My 3/8" torque wrench doesn't fit well, and maxes out at 29Nm. Fine. I can just do a little wiggle more than the click to get to 30Nm. However, when I go to tighten it in the one spot where I can actually swing the ratchet, it seems to be turning a bit more than I'd like. I wonder is it because I have the extension and the wrench in on an angle to get any type of torque on the end, and the spring isn't clicking. I put a 19mm socket on the end and try the wheel lug on the otherside, and 29Nm appears to be about 3 finger strength.

2. Bentley doesn't mention antiseize, Neither does Pedros Garage. Pelican Parts website says no antiseize. I have always put a tiny dab of antiseize on the threaded part of the plug. Could this be an issue?

3. I took my nice 3/8" composite ratchet and checked snugness. Seems fine to me.

I am thinking that 1/4-1/3rd turn after hand tight should be good for the plug, and continue with the antiseize.?

Thx,
Peter - currently unemployed......

PS. To make matters worse, there is a inner driver side ripped CV boot staring me in the face...... argh.....

and the whole setup has too much give?

I prefer not to guess at torque values and use a trustworthy wrench and attachments to ensure the proper torque is applied.

Use no anti-seize. The factory manual doesn't call for any and using it can contaminate the O2 sensors.

Sorry to hear about your employment situation. Where are you located? What are your qualifications? (You can respond offline.) Networking is one of the best ways to find your next job.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

anyway, I agree that you should not use anti-seize on the spark plugs. But it is to avoid affecting the performance of the plug.

if it's not applied sparingly only to the plug threads and gasket, some could get get onto the electrodes or into the combustion chamber itself. Even at that I don't think a minute amount would hurt much of anything downstream. Hmmm... if lead were used in an anti-seize compound... but that's a bit reductio ad absurdum, nicht wahr?

...or at least that's what I read somewhere. Antiseize acts as an insulator, whereas you'd rather have a good solid connection between the plug and engine block. That is, if I recall correctly.

My '99 has a 15k R&R cycle and the plugs are fairly well protected by the coils. I have never had a problem removing a plug, so I will continue to install my plugs without anti-seize. Is that akin to not practicing, "safe combustion"?

maybe it actually helps with heat transfer. I recall using silicone (liquid?) between the power transistors and the heat sinks when I put together a Harman Kardon power amp, per the kit instructions.

use anti-seize. The factory doesn't on new engines/plugs and the plug change procedure doesn't call out for this. I can't ever recall hearing about one car having seized plugs.

The new plugs come with a thread treatment/finish that provides some thread lubricant function and yet avoids the risk the male and femal threads will have any gaps or voids that can collect moisture or result in less than ideal heat transfer.

Anti-seize is so last century.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

And if you keep the compound to the threads, it will never enter the combustion chamber, so fouling via combustion byproducts is really not an issue if you are intelligent about its application. Ergo, i don't buy that argument. Thje factory, as you say, has had many famous F---k ups. Head studs anyone? 993 valve guides? M96 IMS? RMS?

don't get me wrong, these are superb cars. The toyota corrolas of serious sports cars. But they are not infallible.

Grant

scheduled on miles and time. Sometimes -- my info for the models I'm most familiar with is this is 'always' -- Porsche relaxes the plug change schedule based on time when feedback from the dealerships comes back that the plugs are fine after 4 years or whatever the time change interval is.

I'm sorry but your report of some M96 engines have seized plugs without knowing the exact circumstances for the seizure is not enough for my to use anti-seize or insist it be used when the plugs are changed in my cars. There is always the exception that proves the rule. In the case of the plugs being seized were these virgin plugs or plugs that had been changed before? Maybe by someone foregoing the use of a torque wrench? Or the coils/plugs were not seated properly and moisture worked its way in, which may have been helped by the owner washing the engine.

I have had the plugs changed in my cars several times: 3 or maybe 4 times for the Boxster; and the Turbo just once and I might point out after 6+ years (with the factory plug change interval at 4 years (and I've been told since relaxed by the factory) and there's never been any problems with the plugs.

I have a set of 6 plugs from my Boxster on my desk (in a small box). The old plugs' threaded portion is discolored some but has no corrosion. The plug threads actually look pretty good. None of the plug washers show any signs of leakage or any corrosion. (The center electrode and the 4 ground electrodes are obviously quite eroded, though.) But based on the threaded portion condition, there is not a hint any was used or should be used. Which is what I would expect.

However, if you can apply the anti-seize over the entire threaded section of the plug and feel confident that none of this will be squeezed and shoved out ahead of the plug into the combustion chamber, fine. If you can feel confident that under the heat of engine operation none of the anti-seize will liguidfy and enter the combustion chamber, fine. If the next time you change the plugs if you can be sure that none of the old anti-seize now dried out will flake off and fall into the combustion chamber when the old plug is removed and any that remains in the threadedhole then is not pushed ahead of the new plug as it is threaded into the spark plug hole and ends up in the combustion chamber, fine. Then use anti-seize.

Sincerely,

MarcW.

I don't believe lock-ease will seriously inhibit conductivity, and certainly it (and every other car i've ever owned) seems to run fine with it applied.

And, for whatever reason, i've seen plugs seized. But not mine.

QED!

Grant

quote "It's not rocket science."

Correct. Don't over think this. Forget the torque wrench. It's a spark plug, Hand tight and then give it another half a turn or so. Too tight buys you nothing but potential problems.

Besides, how do you know your torque wrench is to spec? When what the last time it was calibrated and to what resolution? Point is, the wrench may not get you any better results than using common, everyday methods?

Sorry about your work. Good luck on your job hunt.

dghii
2000 Boxster S 6speed 112k miles

Even with considering differing hand strengths and thread/gasket smoothness, etc.

Speaking of over thinking, here's some light reading:

[www.boltscience.com]

www.pdhonline.org/courses/s149/s149content.pdf

that have "complex" access to the spark plug holes.

I always use either anti-seize or graphite fluid.
I don't much care what the manufacturer says, a seized plug is a risk too high!

I coulds nto get good values with extensions, and worse, the shot was never straight - so the wrench, extension and socket were at angles. Those angles throw things off and create friction in the system.

I feel its best, in that case, to use your "hand torque wrench". Get it snug plus, say 1/8 turn. Not too tight - you don't want to strip or deform the threads, IMO. never had a problem. OTOH, too loose and it could back out.

History tells me we humans can be pretty accurate - not precise, but accurate. On lugs, i can get between 80-90 lbs-ft (correct for my Audi) consistently. I bet the torque wrench is +/- 6% or worse. So am I.

I personally feel the anti-seize avoids wildly off readings that can come from a temporary jamb - high friction of a partially corroded set of threads. Par for the course with aluminum.

I always use a stubby ratchet which gives me better feel and a near inability to over-muscle it.

Grant

*A whole lot, of course, if the thing backs out completely. At that point anyone with a pulse ought to notice the engine running with a miss.

Feel is important. Cars are all a little bit different so a quarter, third, or half a turn are all in the ballpark. One or two extra revolutions are not.

Risk is in tightening too much, too little is easily detected and corrected.


BTW, I recently replaced what I think what may have been the original plugs in a 98 boxster with 117K miles. Man, the plugs were tight! I cracked the ceramic on three out of the six plugs but still had no issues. I obviously have no idea what torque the plugs were tightened to but I saw no sign of antiseize.

dghii
2000 Boxster S 6speed 112k miles