Looking to compare (non stock) suspension notes (row m030 comments) |  |  |
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| Looking to compare (non stock) suspension notes (row m030 comments) grant - Saturday, 2 February, 2013, at 9:47:01 am |
Morning, all.
I've now had the ROW M030 suspension in my 2004 2.7 for over a month of occasional use, and feel comfortable commenting on it more.
In addition to the row030, i have Pedro's motor mount and Pedro's rear suspension brace, along with nearly 2 deg negative camber (R) and 0.5 deg neg (F). Toe is darn near zero, cross zero, etc (as God intended). And snow tires. Whoo-hee.
Let's cut to the chase. This ride rough. here in NJ, where we have snow plows taking chunks out of roads all the time, it can be painful. This is not a little stiffer folks, its a LOT stiffer. Makes my coil-over equipped Audi feel like a 70s era Caddy.
On the other hand, control, roll, recovery from dips, etc is also dramatically better. I have not had any opportunity to push it really hard, so i'm still a few experiences short of a good overall feel.
If this were exclusively a street car, and i didn't live in an area with billiard-table smooth roads, i would not even consider this option. on a mixed use car like mine, its a real debate. The crashing over bumps and chopped surfaces is not nice, and frankly, can;t be good for the car. OTOH its fun to slalom without the wallow, lag etc of the normal suspension.
Both the guy who installed it (row030 went in while the car was being repaired from the incident) and i are surprised ho little it lowered the car. Barely noticeable, and not enough to give me more than 1/2 deg negative camber up front.
Over train tracks, dips, and rises, its quite dramatically better. very little squat or dive - actually LESS chance of bottoming despite its slightly lowered stance (on paper 10mmR, 15mm F, but i debate that).
On smooth roads the feel is a bit less forgiving -- the faster turn in translates to, well faster turn-in, turn-out, etc. This, in reality, can feel more nervous. I suspect some initial under-steer has been dialed out. Watch that tail.
What have others experienced? How about anyone with the H&R sports/bilstein?
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
I've now had the ROW M030 suspension in my 2004 2.7 for over a month of occasional use, and feel comfortable commenting on it more.
In addition to the row030, i have Pedro's motor mount and Pedro's rear suspension brace, along with nearly 2 deg negative camber (R) and 0.5 deg neg (F). Toe is darn near zero, cross zero, etc (as God intended). And snow tires. Whoo-hee.
Let's cut to the chase. This ride rough. here in NJ, where we have snow plows taking chunks out of roads all the time, it can be painful. This is not a little stiffer folks, its a LOT stiffer. Makes my coil-over equipped Audi feel like a 70s era Caddy.
On the other hand, control, roll, recovery from dips, etc is also dramatically better. I have not had any opportunity to push it really hard, so i'm still a few experiences short of a good overall feel.
If this were exclusively a street car, and i didn't live in an area with billiard-table smooth roads, i would not even consider this option. on a mixed use car like mine, its a real debate. The crashing over bumps and chopped surfaces is not nice, and frankly, can;t be good for the car. OTOH its fun to slalom without the wallow, lag etc of the normal suspension.
Both the guy who installed it (row030 went in while the car was being repaired from the incident) and i are surprised ho little it lowered the car. Barely noticeable, and not enough to give me more than 1/2 deg negative camber up front.
Over train tracks, dips, and rises, its quite dramatically better. very little squat or dive - actually LESS chance of bottoming despite its slightly lowered stance (on paper 10mmR, 15mm F, but i debate that).
On smooth roads the feel is a bit less forgiving -- the faster turn in translates to, well faster turn-in, turn-out, etc. This, in reality, can feel more nervous. I suspect some initial under-steer has been dialed out. Watch that tail.
What have others experienced? How about anyone with the H&R sports/bilstein?
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
Dave In MD - Saturday, 2 February, 2013, at 12:05:06 pm |
and installed mostly for DE. I pretty much agree with your assessment. My quick summary would be: Pot holes are much harsher, highway is actually a little better and on track is a huge improvement.
Shorter suspension travel translates to harsher reaction to pot holes, big bumps and even pavement seams. Much less rebound from dips and pavement transitions helps on a smooth highway and makes the car feel more stable. On the track, it was night and day - much less lean and much less rebound when going over gators or elevation transitions. The big give away on the track was the climbing esses at VIR; much more stable even at higher speeds.
Now that I have another "track" car, I'm not sure what I'm going to do on the Boxster. I kept the original suspension so I could put it back on. Being a base 2003, it's a great learning car for the track, but if I sell it I may go back just to open the market a bit. Or if I keep it, I may go back just for trips with the top down. Fate is TBD.
Dave - 06 987 S coupe SG/NL; gone (but still my first love): 03 986 AS/GG/BK;
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2013 12:05PM by Dave In MD. (view changes)
Shorter suspension travel translates to harsher reaction to pot holes, big bumps and even pavement seams. Much less rebound from dips and pavement transitions helps on a smooth highway and makes the car feel more stable. On the track, it was night and day - much less lean and much less rebound when going over gators or elevation transitions. The big give away on the track was the climbing esses at VIR; much more stable even at higher speeds.
Now that I have another "track" car, I'm not sure what I'm going to do on the Boxster. I kept the original suspension so I could put it back on. Being a base 2003, it's a great learning car for the track, but if I sell it I may go back just to open the market a bit. Or if I keep it, I may go back just for trips with the top down. Fate is TBD.
Dave - 06 987 S coupe SG/NL; gone (but still my first love): 03 986 AS/GG/BK;
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2013 12:05PM by Dave In MD. (view changes)
Boxsterra - Saturday, 2 February, 2013, at 1:01:38 pm |
| Not sure who you are asking, but.... grant - Saturday, 2 February, 2013, at 5:07:31 pm |
Dave In MD - Saturday, 2 February, 2013, at 9:41:55 pm |
MikenOH - Sunday, 3 February, 2013, at 1:45:00 pm |
| Me too. Mechanic 3. But grant - Sunday, 3 February, 2013, at 3:37:02 pm |
Every car is a bit different. The factory spec is 0. We get negative camber by playing with the mounting tolerances. Apparently i had less. B4 number was around -0.2. Also, as i noted above, the car did not drop nearly as much as either of us expected. Its the drop that creates the additional negative camber - unwanted for some, wanted by many of us.
I was hoping for nearly a degree. No dice.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
I was hoping for nearly a degree. No dice.
Grant
Grant
gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com
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