What bits do i need to change the gear oil in a 2000 S 6-sp?

as i understand that i different from the 5-sp

5-sp requires a 12-pt security bit?

6-speed requires 10 and 17mm allen?

Any tricks to the job?

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

1) First remove the fill plug. (If you instead remove the drain plug first then have trouble with the fill plug your car becomes disabled)
2) Figure out how you're going to fill. You can't just pour the fluid in. You need a tube and funnel from the top or a pump from the bottom.

I need to locate the fill so i know where i must rig the hose.

Need the car be in the air? I need to keep it fairly level to get a good reading and that's easiest on the ground.

Is the Fill and M16 security?

this:
[www.ebay.com]

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Just getting the fill plug loose, but not removing it completely until the drain plug is removed might help to keep the outflow slower its "direction" determined for best placement of the catch funnel/container. This, I believe, works for engines at least, depending on crankcase/gearbox case breathing.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Use only Porsche gear oil.

With the bottom plug out, stick you finger in the hole and remove the sludge that has accumulated on the magnet which for some unknown reason, is to one side of the drain hole, instead of being on the drain plug itself.

To refill, the best contraption is a mini hand pump that attaches directly to the gear oil bottle. Costs about 10 bucks at popular autoparts stores.

As you re-fill, turn a wheel so the oil gets distributed, otherwise, you may underfill.

..oil? There are many very good 75w90, GL-4 gear oils out there 9and inf act one of them must be the OEM stuff anyway).

I agree its a very good choice, but so are Lubro-Moly, Redline, and several others. I was thinking Lubro-Moly (easier to get, cheaper, very good)

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

to not use one recommended by Porsche you can base your selection on any criteria you want. Easy to find and cheap is as good as any...

I have no religious adherence to Porsche branded stuff. Ok, its guaranteed to be good, and its safe -i agree, but its not guaranteed to be the best. Look at their oil recommendations - those are clearly inferior, driven by CAFE.

At minimum i plan to buy the Audi fluid which is identical. It must be, Audi made the 5-sp box in the first place, not porsche.

The friction modifier makeup can be significant. We know that people looking to improve the performance of aging synchros often use a different fluid with different cocktail of friction modifiers. One one of my cars i'm very much in that boat.

I also don't recall even asking about fluid, but someone offered a strong opinion. So i'm asking for rationale. Seems fair. I might learn - or not.

Let's be real. Porsche brake f;uid - ate super 200. Porsche PS fluid = pentosin CH11. Porsche auto tranny fluid = Esso Lt7441.

If you were being serious, then, no, you cannot choose any one you want. It really must be GL-4 since the synchros are brass. Since i will be tracking the car, ultimately nearly exclusively, i'm also most concerned with hgih temp stability and low wear, not with slick shifting nor low temp performance.

Finally, note that the OEMs are also thinning out their tranny fluids. While they cant yet mess with 75w90 (or it would not be so), they are lowering the Cst values for auto transmission fluid - again in the name of fuel economy. This is not good for high temp wear one little bit.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2013 08:42PM by grant. (view changes)

Quote
grant
I have no religious adherence to Porsche branded stuff. Ok, its guaranteed to be good, and its safe -i agree, but its not guaranteed to be the best. Look at their oil recommendations - those are clearly inferior, driven by CAFE.

At minimum i plan to buy the Audi fluid which is identical. It must be, Audi made the 5-sp box in the first place, not porsche.

The friction modifier makeup can be significant. We know that people looking to improve the performance of aging synchros often use a different fluid with different cocktail of friction modifiers. One one of my cars i'm very much in that boat.

I also don't recall even asking about fluid, but someone offered a strong opinion. So i'm asking for rationale. Seems fair. I might learn - or not.

Let's be real. Porsche brake f;uid - ate super 200. Porsche PS fluid = pentosin CH11. Porsche auto tranny fluid = Esso Lt7441.

If you were being serious, then, no, you cannot choose any one you want. It really must be GL-4 since the synchros are brass. Since i will be tracking the car, ultimately nearly exclusively, i'm also most concerned with hgih temp stability and low wear, not with slick shifting nor low temp performance.

Finally, note that the OEMs are also thinning out their tranny fluids. While they cant yet mess with 75w90 (or it would not be so), they are lowering the Cst values for auto transmission fluid - again in the name of fuel economy. This is not good for high temp wear one little bit.

Grant

fluid is the same because the transmission is an "Audi" transmission and it "must be" the same, that's as good as any other reason.

I do not know where you get the Porsche oil recommendations are inferior made so by CAFE standards. Porsche is one of the few automakers that still recommends a 40 weight oil (as in 0w-40, 5w-40, and even a 5w-50) while most other car makers have gone to a 30 weight even a 20 weight oil (as in 5w-30, 5w-20, or 0w-30 or even 0w-20).

I'm of the opinion the Porsche recommendations are the best. Why would they not be? What would Porsche stand to gain by recommending an inferior lubricant? And please don't say like one poster on another forum did that in order to have cars wear out sooner so Porsche could sell more cars.

If in your case you are concerned about high temp stability and avoiding increased wear the real solution is not some miracle fluid but a transmission fluid cooler.

Also, what line of thinking leads you to believe that a lower viscosity auto transmission fluid is not good for high temp wear? You believe I guess the lower viscosity fluid is selected without regards to other factors. A thicker fluid can actually run hotter made so by its higher viscosity and the friction (heat) that arises from this. A thinner fluid is heated up less by the pump and is better able to remove heat from the hotter areas of the transmission and then is better able to give up this heat quicker in the transmission cooler. The lower viscosity fluid runs cooler and the transmission is thus further away from encountering high temperature operating conditions and the wear than can arise from this.

Its (almost) purely to meet CAFE. 0w40 is not the same as "40" or 10w40 or 15w40.

5w 40s measure thinner at 100 degC, have lower flash points, and shear and sludge faster under pressure and heat. Its easy to verify, and proven is tests, and acknowledged by the major blenders. Read the curves - not the spec, the actual test result curves.

The other reason is to achieve one specification good for nearly all markets, and good for 12 months or more drain intervals. This yields simpler maintenance and lower maintenance costs; but compromises the oil's performance under severe conditions.

For street driven, mildly driven cars i agree 5w40 is a good choice and yes, it is better than the 5w30 recommended by many others.

but make no mistake - that is nto the same as saying its an compromised recommendation.

I use 10w40 or thicker in any car that will see spirited use.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Look on the 986 forum and rennlist and you wil find numerous posts where someone used other than P gear oil and the tranny balked shifting when cold especially into second. I first changed the tranny oil to Mobil 1 and had bad shifting, changed back to P oil and the tranny shifts flawlessly. Want to save 30 bucks and use non P gear oil,be my guest, good luck.

The Audi 01E and the Porsche 6-sp both specified GL-4 (I refer to the Audi specs for the 5-sp). Not for the pressure ( the original intent of the spec change) but for brass compatibility.

Most/many/enough to be a concern GL-5s are not brass friendly, unless they specifically state GL-4 and GL-5.

I suspect, but don't know, that was the source of the trouble. Could simply be different friction modifiers too.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/2013 08:39AM by grant. (view changes)

..shows good results from Redline 80w90 MT (meets everything, including the latest SAE Standard J2360) and Swepco 201 (ditto).

Note,once again, that simply meeting the GL-x specs is not sufficient info. these have to do with gear oil properties - shear stability under high pressure. The requirements of syncrhos int he transmission, e.g.: bonding of sulfur-based oxides to the brass as a sacrificial layer, and not part of the GL-4/5 spec. Not being sufficiently skilled in that area, i rely on explicit statements of compatibility or good results from multiple users.

I expect the lubro-moly and motul stuff are good too.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I spoke to one of their techs and went with their recommendation (don't actually recall what it was, perhaps 75W-90?) which they seemed very confident with. The car shifted poorly so I too switched back to OEM and it shifted great.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

but I had a long discussion with the tech and he was completely sure that the one I got was the right one for my car (and the only one that was appropriate).

1. the Redline that is appropriate for shifting is 80w90 or 75w90 NS ; NS = no friction modifiers
2. The factory fill varied between Mobil1 Devlac 75w90 and Shell Transaxle 75w90, (not Shell Spirax)
3. Rebuilders seem to like Swepco 201 (oh, i can just hear the jokes already...)

For the 5-speed i will likely play it safe and just use the Audi stuff. Its not too badly priced, last i bought it.

I'll likely try the Swepco for the 6-sp. That's the crunchy one anyway.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

You fill the Audi box to ~ 1/2" below. The Porsche box gets filled till it weeps.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Its much further back and lower than i would have imagined.

That the cat int he foreground and the frame brace to the right.
[i34.tinypic.com]
Nearly at the back of the car.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com