First track event with new car-- a few observations

Had an open track day at Mid-OH yesterday and put about 1 hour on the track with the street tires/pads.Kept the revs down since I was a few miles shy of the BI period.

Speed--amazing; it gobbles up pavement even when not in the peak HP range.
Noise--the stock exhaust makes a great wail at even 1/2-3/4 throttle opening.
Brakes--good enough for most of a 20 minutes session but better fluid and pads are needed for track service.
Tranny--I love this gearbox; very positive shifts--was concerned about the 5th to 4th downshift at speed since I never used 5th on the 987 but it wasn't problem.
Suspension--good but I think the car needs a better alignment; what seems like "immediate" on the street isn't quite so on the track with a stock alignment and these bogus P zeros. When I had an aggressive alignment done on the 987 is really transformed the car on the track so that is coming.

Overall, a great day. BTW, a lot of people came by and remarked how good the car looked.

At your level of driving, street is too much of a compromise. You know that. Get tires, alignment, pads, fluid. Probably some method of increasing (well, decreasing) front camber.

My two on-track experiences with 981/991 cars says that out of the box they bury the 987/997s. So with mods, things should get sweet. But remember, a perfect track car is a lousy street car. I had a BALL in my Audi S6 Avant with 16" street tires at Pocono yesterday. In some ways it demands much smoother, better planned driving (no corrections possible at the last minute). So a street car is not a bad thing, except for your ego.

Alas i will be working in France and miss Mid-Ohio with NNJR this year. Its a shame, that is my favourite track.

If you join us i will be at ( i hope) every other event, save Mosport. Think VIR.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I hear what you're saying, Grant.

I didn't have time to change the tires out but will have them on with an new alignment and Motul 600 brake fluid for the NNJ event in two weeks and then see where it goes from there. The brakes didn't really feel too bad but higher temp fluid really does help. Also, there are substantial F & R brake ducts which I think help cool the brakes a bit better than the 987

Add to that, each car drives differently; we had the 987 for 7 years and it took me two years to get comfortable with it on the track after driving a 986. The cars just felt differently and you have to go through the drill of putting the car in a corner and finding out how it reacts. I think the tires make the biggest difference; the PS2 and GY F1's felt good on the track and would take the heat for a while but you had the stay under 40 PSI tire pressure. The P Zeros acted like they want even less pressure and you don't know where that happy spot is except bye experimentation.

Forgot to add, the digital TP and oi/coolant gauges were great.

BTW, we're planning on WG in August.

See you at the Glen! Fabulous place!

As to brake fluid - I believe Porsche uses ate super 200, which is adequate ( i use it).

OTOH, here's a factoid. I ran my 2002 Audi S6 Avant at Pocono yesterday. I had one front rotor hit 952 degF immediately after the cool-down lap. So precaution is wise. That said the calipers, and this the fluid, never exceeded 400 deg, generally under 325 in fact.

Fortunately i had Stoptech 60-0 fluid and 1200 deg MOT pads in the car. Big pig. Stock (S) brakes, front weight bias, and an overly competitive driver conspired to toast the fronts!

I agree that tires make the biggest difference. Didnt you run some kind of R-comp last year?

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I still have NT-05s mounted on 987 S 18" rims so they should work fine. After they are done I'm thinking the NT01s unless something else comes up.
Finding tire 18" sizes that work on this car is tough; the 245/275/40 combo is in the PSM required window but that is it.

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

To be honest I had it on the tire pressure settings to let me know when I was getting above 40PSI--which was very helpful.
The only time I had it on coolant/oil pressure/oil temp readouts was on my last lap of the afternoon session which showed something like 200 deg. coolant and 220 deg. oil temp. That 200 deg. coolant temp is amazingly consistent; you don't suppose..?

I'll eventually get a cheap ELM 327 interface to pull the OBD data and see if I can merge it with the Race Chrono program that runs on my Android phone. I really like the analysis the Android version of RC does comparing laps, split times and speeds in sector that can be viewed on the phone.
Very simple to overlay on video when combined with the program Race Render. I'll post a link once I get it uploaded to you tube.

One thing I was glad to see is was the lack of excessive pad dust on the rears, which was a concern because how the PTV works.

I don't have the ability to measure mine on the boxster, but i did on the Audi Friday at Pocono. I hit just shy of 250 (deg F)

I have heard on the Rennlist broads (from Jake no less) of oil temps in boxsters and caymans approaching something like 300 deg (F).
Maybe it was more, it was a significant number. He felt it was a potential contributing factor to some track failures. That data and comments from other race shops is part of why I so strongly urge track rats to use thicker oil that has a higher flash point, maintains shear and viscosity at elevated temps, and resists sludgeing at elevated temps. This 0w40 stuff may be great for putting down rodeo drive, but its not ideal for big temps.

OTOH at 200 deg it may be "ok". I had 5w40 Edge in my S6. I know that grade doesn't exist, don't ask.

In my boxster I have what amounts to 12.5w45.

As to your water temps, i presume the t-stat is around 180 deg? So the system is running wide open. There should be some variation, but i assume it has sufficient mass that it doesn't change much. I guess you are suggesting that they put a damper on the readout? I know Audi does on the analog one.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

Sounds about right but it wasn't a real hot day --low 70's.

I'm going to use the coolant/oil data displays more next time out and make a note of the data.When I've been on the street the coolant stays remarkably stable while the oil temp moves around i've seen it as high as 235 deg.

I'll probably change out the oil after the NNJ event and possibly go with that Lubro Moly 5-40 full synthetic--which is a A40 Porsche spec oil. The dealer tech said he'd put in whatever I wanted so next time in I'll just buy the 8 qts and let him install it.

* Figured this had to do with radiation from very hot pavement and moving through relatively still air with hundreds of other engine blocks pumping out heat. Never have seen the coolant go above 200.

Minus 40 degrees... Is that Fahrenheit or Celsius?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2013 04:53PM by Laz. (view changes)

The thicker oil may run hotter due to its viscosity.

Also, the engines are oil cooled to an extent. The oil is in contact with the hottest parts of the engine.

I worry too about the effect higher viscosity oil could have. The higher viscosity may prevent the oil from say getting in to the valve stem/guide interfaces or the thicker oil may not be as effective absorbing/carrying away heat as a thinner oil.

I dont think your concerns are anything to worry about. If you look at kinematic viscosity charts as a function of temperature, the varuiation from cold to hot is orders of magnitude greater than the difference between 40 and 50 weight oil , fior example, at operating temp (let's use 100 deg C as operating temperature)

Many oils hvae cSt of about 80-100 (working from memory) at 40 deg C, and may vary from 10-16 at 100 degC based on whether they are a 30, 40, or 50 weight. So the difference at temp is relatively small compared to what your car endures every day before it is fully warmed up.

This is confiremd by lubrication manufacturers and racing teams' experience.

Agtain, at high temps, those viscosity numbers fall quickly. That's the concern. if we all stayed at 220 deg F/ 104 C all would be lovely even with 5w40.

I do acknowledge that the thick (lower number) oils are suspect at ambient temps, especialyl if ambient is winter in New Jersey. The simple solution is:

1. dont use them for a DD during the winter in NJ
2. regardless of where you are, drive easy until it is warm.

As evidence we have sebveral cases of idiots gunning a fairly cold motor on the track early and blowing off an oil fitting.

Duh.

And yes, its likely not idal for tight bearings or its hydraulic duties when its moving like molasis. But that can be controlled with restraint, but damage at 6k rpm and 280 deg F on the trrack,or elsewhere, cannot.

So, as i always preach, its not "good vs bad" but "right oil fo the righ applciation and understanding what its characteristics are".

Remember, i'm also the guy who tells the pure D, easy-driven car, with mostly short trips, that 5w30 is just fine, maybe preferable.

I had dino 10w30 GTX in my project car when i was flushing the "new old motor" out. I warmed it up easy adn never pushed it hard and hot.

But Porsche's recomendatinos have to suit a wide range of uses, adn that's the definition of compromise. ideally, we dont have to make that compromise.

Facts, numbers, understanding. not N-spec (okay, okay, A40) voodoo.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I run 10-40 high mileage year round, including DE's. I drive the car in the winter but not on bitterly cold days. As stated, you can (and should) always drive easily until it warms up in the cold. There isn't much you can do to mitigate blistering heat in the summer, however so I generally make decisions that offer the most protection for those conditions. On a lightly driven street car, I don't think it makes much difference. I ran 0W-40 for years until I started doing track days in the heat and decided to switch. My motorcycle is also lightly driven on nice winter days and pounded during the heat of summer so I run the same in it. Oil related failures absent other problems are pretty rare in modern cars so I don't give it much thought. Coolant temps are farily consistent for me on both street and track. Bumps a bit at the track, of course, but not much. Would be curious about oil temps but 10 qts in a 3.2 L engine offers a decent amount of cooling, I think.

Its flash point is significantly higher than the 0w40's, and its HTHS figure is vastly higher (4.0 vs 3.6?, and the 3.6 was shaky?)

10w was long recopmended byt he US Army for arctic use, so i cannto see that being a problem if we are congiscent of what's going on.

That said, int he summer, when i do lots of track events, i mix 10w40 and 15w50 to make 12.5w45.

It gets diluted in the fall, after VIR.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I'll be there next week end. PCA Potomac is having a 3 day event there. There's still room if you want to join us. There are 20 Caymans and 10 Boxsters signed up. It's on motorsportreg.com

Would love to see the new car on the track

Dave

Dave - 06 987 S coupe SG/NL; gone (but still my first love): 03 986 AS/GG/BK;

Wish I could but I'll be there is 17th to the 19th.