2000 Boxster S vs 2009 C2S

Per Bob's request...... this is not easy to do..... so I will start with a few bullet points now after owning my C2S for just over 1 year:

1 - 911 rear bias.... complete bunk in my book. I will re-write this after I do some DEs this spring, but for the most part, I can't barely feel it and I have been driving in all of this snow (albeit with Michelin snows). This conveyance by posters of a barbell hanging out back there is just not my experience. I can only feel it in rare times such those odd hops on streets that bob and rock the car up and down but can never feel it laterally. 5th gear has a vid on a newer 911 and they note there is no bias. More on handling below, but I thought this spin out BS should be addressed up front.
2 - Noise - the 911 is quieter and while I like this for longer drives, it takes away some of the excitement
3 - Cockpit - the enclosed feeling of the Boxster is just better and adds to the fun.
4 - 911 backseats - really? There are seats back there? No kidding they are silly and unusable and should not be a decisioning factor.
5 - Handling - I have no clue if the engine placement has anything to do with enjoyment or control so I say it is irrelevant. Again I haven't DE'd this 911 yet, but for even spirited driving, it is a non issue. Sure, I use my imagination and look for rear bias and I can find it, but really.... it is not much of a factor. However.... the cars handle differently and, yes, some of this could be due to the engine placement, but I tell you, I can not point to it. The 911 just feels heavier, more planted, more accurate, and less nimble. The darn thing (911) is like it is on no-drama rails... so this is bad? Well it is definitely less fun. To get the 911 into the fun zone, I gotta be going 70 miles an hour! Death is closer in a 911 if you want to be in the fun zone.
6 - Power - Oh yea, the 911 has tons of it @385. Wow, 385 horses. Yes it goes. But again, there is no drama with it and it changes how you use the gearbox. Ex: at 60 MPH, I can accelerate at needed, highway rates in 6th gear! Sure you can scare the begeezus out of your passenger by dripping into 3rd and feeling your tongue drop into your throat but for most highway driving in the real commuting world, you don't need to. So..... the 911 is a blast to drive aggressively regarding its acceleration capabilities, but I found myself shifting less because you don't need to...... and therefore less fun (some may like this as it is less work but also less fun). I actually am consiously getting into the habit of downshifting more needed or not, just to get my funner habits back.
7 - Luxury and convenience - I like the 911 for its creature comforts.... I live in this car and have put 25 K miles on it in 12 months.... yea, I like the nice stereo, XM, MP3 via USB stick, mega-way seats, beeping butt, etc. etc.
8 - Ego - This is gotta be the toughest one to analyze because you have to look yourself in the mirror. I always wanted a 911. It was always and still is the "best" in writing and lore. I was at a track event with my Boxster and there was a palpable sense of superiority in car length. Someone said something like "Porsche did a nice job with their entry car". So to be totally honest, I am proud to own a 911.

So, here is my summary: The Boxster was more fun and a "better" handling car. "Better" means more feedback, more thrashing about, and just more exciting. The 911 is heavier, more controllable, no drama, way more powerful, way more comfortable (see Boxster handling), much more prestigious.

In a perfect world, I would like to erase everyones memory of what a 911 is, and put a Jake Raby engine in a Boxster.

A quick comment on Porsche product planning...... as I got older (I am 54 now) and could afford the more expensive car, Porsche also figured out their elder market likes drama less and comfort more. Porsche market planners win!

Peace
Bruce in Philly



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2014 12:57PM by Bruce In Philly (2000 S Boxster, now '09 C2S). (view changes)

One other thing you might want to consider is that fact that there is a 9 year gap between your Boxster and 911. There was a lot of development that went on for both cars during that time, so some of your comparisons may not be so much a difference between the two cars (luxury, noise levels, comfort) as just improvements made in both cars during that time.

Going from my '06 Boxster to my '14 Boxster S, I found a lot of improvements in those three areas, as well as handling.

... make sure you do some slower laps first to get acquainted with the new car.
You will find that at the limit (or close to the limit) they are completely different animals.
With the 911, coming int a turn, you should slow down more than with the Boxster but you can early-apex and accelerate out faster, using throttle steer.
With the Boxster you can come into the turn at a higher speed an threshold brake to help steer while maintaing more speed because you don't have as much power as the 911.
The Boxster is faster around the turns but if you start to loose it, it's much harder to recover than with the 911.
Either way they are both darn good on the track... But I personally prefer the engine in the "right" place ... In the middle
Happy Porscheing
Pedro

Pedro Bonilla
1998 Boxster 986 - 311,000+ miles: [www.PedrosGarage.com]
PCA National Club Racing Scrutineer - PCA National HPDE Instructor - PCA Technical Committee (Boxster/Cayman)

---

Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar

"Racing is life. Anything before or after is just waiting" ... Steve McQueen as Michael Delaney in "LeMans"

"If you wait, all that happens is that you get older"... Mario Andretti

"Being second is to be the first of the ones who lose" ... Ayrton Senna

Quote
Pedro (Weston, FL)
The Boxster is faster around the turns but if you start to loose it, it's much harder to recover than with the 911.
Pedro

Can you explain "harder to recover than a 911"?

Thanks

In some way I kind of knew, surmised, or read a lot of what Bruce wrote about the differences. Being honest, I find I like the power of my 303 hp Boxster. Going from a 201 base, to a 303hp S (RS60, why they added 8 hp is pure marketing. Really, who can tell?), added to my enjoyment of the car. I never had a car with this kind of acceleration, and it is indeed fun.

Not only do new 911s have to many gears, 7 now!, but I wish my S had only 5 rather than 6 gears. If I end up in a 911, have already thought of only using 4 gears unless I am cruising for miles on an interstate. I imaging thinking of it as an age-old H, and the rest are for overdrive.

I know they have made many improvements in the Boxster, but one thing was a real surprise to me. I had my 99 for 10 years. When I test drove the '08S (I bought it off the lot), other than the extra power, the handling to me was the same. OK, so I am not a professional who can tell when one tire is 2 pounds light, but the 987 handles very much like a 987. I will also test drive a 981. I am curious about the e-steering and to see how it handles compared with a 987.

"harder to recover" and other mishandling issues:

This comes from learning about Boxsters very early on this board. The two cars can loose it differently. I have never taken physics, but some one years ago introduced the notation here (to me) of polar moment. As an ice skater brings his/her arms in, the center of gravity is reduced and the spin increases. With the engine in the middle, a Boxster will spin out PDQ. I know, it happened to me twice. Once at Summit Point, and once at VIR. It happens soooo fast, I was backward w/o even knowing I had exchanged the front with the back! Scary. In that sense, at a certain point, it is impossible to recover.

As for the 991, from I what understand, it over-steers. While I may never go fast enough around turns in a 911 on the street, the following scenario troubles me. While having too much fun (speed) on a highway entrance or exit ramp, something happens in front of me and I react by lifting my foot abruptly. From what I have read, this can send a 911's back end to the front in a heart beat. Maybe this is just the older cars. Maybe Porsche has reduced this effect. My guess is that I am unlikely to drive that close to the limit of a 911 on the road, but after spinning out on the track in my Boxster, I can't help but think about and consider these things.

1999 Arctic Sivler/black/black (sold)
2008s Silver/black/black - so predictable
2011 Outback
8/24/2011 first Grandson

A higher polar moment of inertia car like a 911 spins mroe slowly, because that same barbell action that Bruce doesn;t feel, resists all rotational motion. A boxster is very easy to catch if you are very fast. But once it goes beyond x% yaw - certainyl once yaw angle exceeds steering at full lock, you are toast. They spin really fast REALLY fast. One thing i am workign on is "when it begins to step out, counetr steer a LOT and YESTERDAY. When i get into trouble its when i let the spin et ahead of me (duh).

On the other hand, its very easy to correct a small wiggle or what you feel as a changign slip angle at the rear. Again, it reponds so fast that it can be easy to arrest a spin, btu the counter-point is that if you DONT react immediately, its already gone.

In a 911 the spin begins and accelerates more slowly, so those who are slower to react (aka me) have more time to wake up and realize what's happening.

Pedro will correct my errors.

Grant

Grant

gee-lenahan-at-gee-mail-dot-com

I went from a 2002 Boxster S to a 2009 C2S Cab. I'd have to agree with most of your write up. I've done one DE event (High Performance Driving Event). In the handling department, the 911 just ate up the track. It never go squirelly on me. I was always worried about the rear-end bias, too, but after taking it on the track, the thought never creeps into my mind any longer. As far as noise, I think my 997 S sounds much better than my 986S. It snarls and spits on idle and the exhaust note on acceleration does fill the cabin (it bothers my wife when she's talking on the phone). Maybe it's beause mines a Cab, but even with the top up, I like to hit the go peddle and listen to the grunt. You can also really feel the rear-end plant when punching it in a straight line with those very wide 19" tires gripping the pavement. So, yeah, the power is there and amazing. I too, have to agree that I find myself shifting less, or only dropping it one gear, but you have to watch it while passing because before you know it, you are in the 80s in a 50 or 55 zone. It would be great to remove the rear seats and put a flat bench back there that can be lifted to stash more things. Folding the seats down doesn't give much space for putting things back there. For roadtrips, I found that I had more room for personal things in the Boxster than in the 911, plus, everything in the rear is exposed, so I'm not as comfortable making stops along the way, as when everthing is concealed in a Boxster. The 911 also seems like a much more solid car than the Boxster. Maybe because it's heavier, but I just don't get the squeaks and rattles that I've had on my two previous Boxsters ('98 base and the'02 S). I guess that's what one should expect on a higher-priced car--better build quality. That being said, I do prefer the more closed-in cockpit of the Boxster. Just something about having that firewall right behind the seats that makes the Boxster seem much more comfy/cozy than the openness of the 911's interior.

I too, think that the Boxster is more fun. I always equate it to slipping on your favorite, old, faded pair of jeans. They just feel right from the moment you slip them on, and the Boxster does seem to feel right just from slipping behind the wheel. It would be great if Porsche would just stuff one of those 3.8 litre engines into the Boxster.

It does feel more planted, heavier, more substantial, and of a somewhat higher quality than my 986, but not by the 35% price premium. As you say the rear seats are useless, and even storage is exposed. We could get much more 'stuff' in the two 986 trunks. The 991 7MT is heaven, as is the 981 6MT. Get'em while you can

I don't use the massive sunroof on my coupe to often, the PCM is worse than worthless IMO, PASM and PTV are quite good and much more useful day-to-day than Sport Chrono, and the PSE is wonderful....if you're standing behind the car when it takes off (zero power increase, a bit more growl in the cabin NBD, but nice exhaust tips). 20" inch wheels are another vanity aimed, high profit, show that many go for.

What we order on our wonderful cars is IMHO much more telling about our psychological makeup than about the true "must have" value of most options. Now that I think about it, the same can be said about the car itself. I guess we're just making a statement about ourselves with what we order. In any event, enjoy the process.

Odds are my next Porsche will be a Cayman, but that Macan looks both sweet and practical.

"A mile of highway will take you one mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere."