Old Spanish proverb: |  |  |
Expect the best, and accept no substitute. |
Products for your Boxster, Cayman and Carrera. |
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Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 8:35:35 am |
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2012 08:39AM by Laz.
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Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 8:46:45 am |
 *NM* Gary in SoFL - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 8:53:22 am |
Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 8:58:28 am |
| I think the she is alluding to the fact that Guenter in Ontario - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 10:48:57 am |
Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 12:48:41 pm |
| Re: Old Spanish proverb: Guenter in Ontario - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 1:21:43 pm |
whall - Tuesday, 6 March, 2012, at 3:15:58 pm |
It's interesting that the new Boxster is getting a retractable spoiler......it's about time!
Our local newspaper had a "driver's" report on the Cayman last weekend. The story was highly complimentary of the Cayman, but indicated the author's wish that there was a roadster version available!
All the news that's fit to print!
Bill
Our local newspaper had a "driver's" report on the Cayman last weekend. The story was highly complimentary of the Cayman, but indicated the author's wish that there was a roadster version available!
All the news that's fit to print!
Bill
Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 9:02:31 am |
Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 9:49:20 am |
It's poor reporting (and editing) to quote one Porsche owner. Did you speak to other
911 owners as to what they think of the Boxster? Nothing beats asking an Englis
h actuary about a subject of passion. Ask him to let you know when the Intermediate
Shaft Bearing takes out his 2001 engine, or the Rear Main Seal starts leaking oi
l. Among other critical factors, the latest engines no longer have an IMS bearing, and have improved Rear Main Seals. Rebecca Lindland would do well to seek a deeper understanding of "aspirational." There are many people who "aspire" to own only a Boxster. There is no "top" m
odel mid-engined convertible Porsche. Should they build one, I'm sure many Boxst
er owners would readily purchase it.
MikenOH - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 12:57:02 pm |
Regarding the author:
1) "Most unloved model"--I suspect she writes this based on sales numbers, but it strikes me more as an inappropriate metaphor of confusing passion with practicality. The SUV/Luxury sedan market is much larger that the 2 seater coupe/roadster and would expect the company sales numbers to reflect that--no?
2) Picking one 911 guy that doesn't care much about the Boxster as the voice for all 911 owners--Please...
She must have a bias along those lines herself to choose this guy, or someone close to her related this view as fact.
From the "industry expert":
1) "not aspirational"-- She offers nothing to back up or explain that blanket statement. It's true because she's an "expert"?
2)"Stand in a bar and still say you have a Porsche"--yup, that's exactly why most Boxster owners buy their cars.
Spoken like some one that has no knowledge on the subject, save what she might have overheard at her favorite watering hole.
If this is what passes for insight from a industry expert, I hope there aren't any financial types out there making investments on what ever comes out of her mouth or newsletter.
1) "Most unloved model"--I suspect she writes this based on sales numbers, but it strikes me more as an inappropriate metaphor of confusing passion with practicality. The SUV/Luxury sedan market is much larger that the 2 seater coupe/roadster and would expect the company sales numbers to reflect that--no?
2) Picking one 911 guy that doesn't care much about the Boxster as the voice for all 911 owners--Please...
She must have a bias along those lines herself to choose this guy, or someone close to her related this view as fact.
From the "industry expert":
1) "not aspirational"-- She offers nothing to back up or explain that blanket statement. It's true because she's an "expert"?
2)"Stand in a bar and still say you have a Porsche"--yup, that's exactly why most Boxster owners buy their cars.
Spoken like some one that has no knowledge on the subject, save what she might have overheard at her favorite watering hole.
If this is what passes for insight from a industry expert, I hope there aren't any financial types out there making investments on what ever comes out of her mouth or newsletter.
| Re: A few observations paulwdenton - Tuesday, 6 March, 2012, at 11:46:31 am |
"Stand in a bar and still say you have a Porsche"--yup, that's exactly why most Boxster owners buy their cars.
This is the public perception of people who own expensive cars in general, and based on my own observations, I think it is correct for the majority of Porsche owners. We have to recognize that the majority of Porsche owners are NOT enthusiasts, at least not in any real sense. Those of us here are all enthusiasts and we hang out together, so we tend to think everyone who owns a Porsche must be an enthusiast. In the real world, however, our local PCA in a metro area of 2,000,000 people has maybe 40 cars that show up for their events, and most of these are well-used. If the local Porsche dealer only sold to these enthusiasts, they'd be out of business instead of thriving. The online community actually has very few participants relative to the number of Porsches that have been sold. There are several hundred thousand Boxsters that have been sold in this country, yet the participants in these forums and in PCA events represent only a tiny fraction of owners. On my own street, there are two other people who own Porsches. I have tried talking to them. They have no real interest in their cars or in driving. I don't think they are even aware they have a flat-six engine. They know how to drive and they know how to put the top down, and that's about it.
What the non-enthusiasts seem to have in common is that their "Porsch" is a feel-good thing for them. People buy expensive cars, at least in part, to have status and to brag. You don't "need" a Porsche, Lexus, or Mercedes. C'mon, there are cheaper cars out there that can meet anyone's street transportation needs. "Stand in a bar and still say you have a Porsche" therefore seems like a fair stereotype. And is that really an insult anyway? Is it worse to brag that you have a Porsche than to brag that you drive a Lexus or Mercedes?
This is the public perception of people who own expensive cars in general, and based on my own observations, I think it is correct for the majority of Porsche owners. We have to recognize that the majority of Porsche owners are NOT enthusiasts, at least not in any real sense. Those of us here are all enthusiasts and we hang out together, so we tend to think everyone who owns a Porsche must be an enthusiast. In the real world, however, our local PCA in a metro area of 2,000,000 people has maybe 40 cars that show up for their events, and most of these are well-used. If the local Porsche dealer only sold to these enthusiasts, they'd be out of business instead of thriving. The online community actually has very few participants relative to the number of Porsches that have been sold. There are several hundred thousand Boxsters that have been sold in this country, yet the participants in these forums and in PCA events represent only a tiny fraction of owners. On my own street, there are two other people who own Porsches. I have tried talking to them. They have no real interest in their cars or in driving. I don't think they are even aware they have a flat-six engine. They know how to drive and they know how to put the top down, and that's about it.
What the non-enthusiasts seem to have in common is that their "Porsch" is a feel-good thing for them. People buy expensive cars, at least in part, to have status and to brag. You don't "need" a Porsche, Lexus, or Mercedes. C'mon, there are cheaper cars out there that can meet anyone's street transportation needs. "Stand in a bar and still say you have a Porsche" therefore seems like a fair stereotype. And is that really an insult anyway? Is it worse to brag that you have a Porsche than to brag that you drive a Lexus or Mercedes?
MikenOH - Tuesday, 6 March, 2012, at 1:16:01 pm |
Quote
paulwdenton
"Stand in a bar and still say you have a Porsche"--yup, that's exactly why most Boxster owners buy their cars.
This is the public perception of people who own expensive cars in general, and based on my own observations, I think it is correct for the majority of Porsche owners. We have to recognize that the majority of Porsche owners are NOT enthusiasts, at least not in any real sense. Those of us here are all enthusiasts and we hang out together, so we tend to think everyone who owns a Porsche must be an enthusiast. In the real world, however, our local PCA in a metro area of 2,000,000 people has maybe 40 cars that show up for their events, and most of these are well-used. If the local Porsche dealer only sold to these enthusiasts, they'd be out of business instead of thriving. The online community actually has very few participants relative to the number of Porsches that have been sold. There are several hundred thousand Boxsters that have been sold in this country, yet the participants in these forums and in PCA events represent only a tiny fraction of owners. On my own street, there are two other people who own Porsches. I have tried talking to them. They have no real interest in their cars or in driving. I don't think they are even aware they have a flat-six engine. They know how to drive and they know how to put the top down, and that's about it.
What the non-enthusiasts seem to have in common is that their "Porsch" is a feel-good thing for them. People buy expensive cars, at least in part, to have status and to brag. You don't "need" a Porsche, Lexus, or Mercedes. C'mon, there are cheaper cars out there that can meet anyone's street transportation needs. "Stand in a bar and still say you have a Porsche" therefore seems like a fair stereotype. And is that really an insult anyway? Is it worse to brag that you have a Porsche than to brag that you drive a Lexus or Mercedes?
I must be living a charmed life (or have benefited from very limited time in bars these days) for over the past 13 years of Boxster ownership, since I've never come across another Boxster owner that knew little about their car or used it primarily as their vehicle for impressing others. Having said that, I have met a few 911 (and BMW) owners that seemed to do the latter, to the point of being annoying, but then again, that is what braggers do, isn't it.
When the Boxster first came out--like the Miata in 1990--it was a novelty and would think that it attracted a lot of interest from people that weren't what you might call auto enthusiasts. In the 15+ years since, however, that the novelty should have run it's course and now sales are driven by people that either may have lusted for it for a while or those that have decided to try this market out --2 seat roadsters--and see what it's like. I can't help but think that if you're going to lay that type of sterotype on a Porsche owner, the "typical" Pepper or Pana owners might fit that description better that the 911/Boxster,Cayman owner. (flame suit on)
Anyway, my main beef with this article was the opinion, passed off as fact ,by an industry expert, that offered nothing more to back it up other than author's inference by inclusion that she knows what she's talking about. Had she referenced a JD Power survey or the like ( I'm thinking there has to be data on this out there somewhere) to back up her claim, I might put some credence in it, but that takes time and money for proper research and it's much easier to just shoot your mouth off. In my view, it doesn't speak well for the analyst, her company or Bloomberg to throw stuff like this crap out there without qualification.
| Re: A few observations. She was correct about non-aspirational Bobtesa - Tuesday, 6 March, 2012, at 4:37:08 pm |
| Re: Any minute: Boxster story. (Just teased on Bloomberg TV.) silverbox03 - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 12:56:22 pm |
Well, that writer is ignorant. I cannot count the number of articles I have read over the years that praise the 986/987 chassis as being the best of Porsche. And, as has been said on this very forum, Porsche deliberately holds the Boxster/Cayman back in order to prevent canibalizing the sales of the 911. The car is that good.
If I couldn't have a Boxster, I would probably look to the Elise or the Mazda MX5. I have driven 911's and I do like them. But, as great as they are, the value is not there and even the 997's still exhibit that tail-heavy sensation in the turns. I am sure there are those who choose the Boxster because they can't "afford" a 911. That wasn't the case for me.
If the writer is correct, then 90% of the automotive press is wrong.
If I couldn't have a Boxster, I would probably look to the Elise or the Mazda MX5. I have driven 911's and I do like them. But, as great as they are, the value is not there and even the 997's still exhibit that tail-heavy sensation in the turns. I am sure there are those who choose the Boxster because they can't "afford" a 911. That wasn't the case for me.
If the writer is correct, then 90% of the automotive press is wrong.
Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 1:10:59 pm |
The article's motivation wasn't to report, but to support the pre-existing biases of the author and editor. I didn't email Lindland only because I'd have to give her company more personal information than I care to. I did use my real name with the Bloomberg staff. The benighted actuary is on his own.
MikenOH - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 2:51:19 pm |
| I think we have to keep in mind the source (and background) of this story Guenter in Ontario - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 1:56:26 pm |
Bloomberg deals with business information. Number crunchers. Why elso would you go to an actuary to learn about the finer points of any car.
Least expensive product must be the least desirable.
Most expensive must be the most desirable.
Anything else doesn't make any sense, does it?
We are so amuzed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2012 01:57PM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)
Least expensive product must be the least desirable.
Most expensive must be the most desirable.
Anything else doesn't make any sense, does it?
We are so amuzed.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2012 01:57PM by Guenter in Ontario. (view changes)
Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 3:56:39 pm |
I have, but resent the arrogant notion that everything can be quantified, and that being the justification for what's "valid" or not. I used to work for a major corporation that went wholesale into the "quality" movement. The concept itself is/was a wonderful thing, but by the time the corporate suits and human resources people got done with it, it was a half-baked pseudo-philosophy of life, the universe, and everything. One of many notions that stuck in my craw was that market share indicated quality. I countered with GM versus Ferrari, but nobody would agree, in part due to "not rocking the boat" and protecting their own derrieres. Another part was the self-stoking belief in "happy horse---t." My suggestion was to simply read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
And not that it's these people's job to be poetic, but I'd like to see them run some numbers on Michelangelo's Rondanini Pietà
[www.join2day.net]
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2012 04:16PM by Laz. (view changes)
And not that it's these people's job to be poetic, but I'd like to see them run some numbers on Michelangelo's Rondanini Pietà
[www.join2day.net]
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2012 04:16PM by Laz. (view changes)
| Re: I think we have to keep in mind the source (and background) of this story Guenter in Ontario - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 4:15:48 pm |
Quote
Laz
I have, but resent the arrogant notion that everything can be quantified, and that being the justification for what's "valid" or not. I used to work for a major corporation that went wholesale into the "quality" movement. The concept itself is/was a wonderful thing, but by the time the corporate suits and human resources people got done with it, it was a half-baked pseudo-philosophy of life, the universe, and everything. One of many notions that stuck in my craw was that market share indicated quality. I countered with GM versus Ferrari, but nobody would agree, in part due to "not rocking the boat" and protecting their own derrieres. Another part was the self-stoking belief in "happy horse---t." My suggestion was to simply read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
I agree with you. I was just being facetious in my previous post.
It's like the people who judge how good a car is by looking at its horsepower rating and 0 - 60 time. They obviously don't understand what real driving is all about. That's OK for a drag strip and that's about it.
Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 4:18:31 pm |
| Re: I think we have to keep in mind the source (and background) of this story (Edited.) Guenter in Ontario - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 5:58:39 pm |
Quote
Laz
..........but I'd like to see them run some numbers on Michelangelo's Rondanini Pietà
[www.join2day.net]
OK, how's this.
Well it's one of the least impressive little statues, only 6'5" when compared with a much more impressive Spring Temple Buddha which stands 420' tall.
According to an actuary, the 420' buddha will last much longer than Michelangelo's Rondanini Pietà if left out in the elements.
Laz - Monday, 5 March, 2012, at 9:10:09 pm |
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2012 09:17PM by Laz.
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